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Thread: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

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    Default The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    With the threads about Murph's value and Rush's, I thought Roy needed one as well. To me, he is currently the most important piece the Pacers have. Roy could be nearing 16-18 ppg this year. Hell, he could've been a 20/8/3 kind of guy if O'Brien called his number more. He can demand the double, and has excellent passing abilities for a big man.


    To this team, he's our most important player (imo) although he isn't our most productive player.

    What could a guy like Roy Hibbert net in a trade?

    Can he be one of the top 5 centers in the next 2-3 years?

    Could he average 20ppg on a winning team in a more slow-down offense?

    Is he untouchable in your opinion?

    To me, The Joy of Roy should stay a pacer for a long, long time.
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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    I don't know that he's the most important piece on the Pacers. Probably the 2nd most important outside of Granger.

    But, Roy seems to be a guy who truly wants to be a Pacer and enjoys every minute of it. He's a hard worker, seems like a genuine and nice guy, and he has a lot of talent as well. He opens up so much for us when he gets double teamed, and I truly would hate losing him if we did.

    No, he's not untouchable. But iff he goes in a trade, we sure better get one heck of a piece back in return. 7 foot centers who have high basketball IQ's are hard to find.

    I think he can be a top 5 center if he improves his mobility, figures out a way to eliminate the fouls, and gets more touches.

    I'd like to see Roy as a Pacer for a long time, and I feel he will be. In my opinion, he is one of Bird's pieces going forward with us in the future.

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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    It's hard to say Roy is more important than Danny because of Danny's accomplishments and the fact that he is the best player on the team. However, when you're talking about value, you may have a point. The rarer something is, the more valuable it is. I think we all would agree that the Center and PG spots are the hardest to fill, and 7 footers with Roy's skills are harder to find than wing players with Danny's skills. I wouldn't trade Hibbert unless we were getting a star player in return.

    I think Roy will be with the Pacers for a long time. IMO, he is already a top 5 Center in the EC. I would list only Howard and Lopez ahead of him with Z and Horford rounding out the top 5. (I consider Horford a PF, but he was listed as a Center so I included him) So I think Roy has a legitimate shot to be an all-star someday.
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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by 2minutes twowa View Post
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    It's hard to say Roy is more important than Danny because of Danny's accomplishments and the fact that he is the best player on the team. However, when you're talking about value, you may have a point. The rarer something is, the more valuable it is. I think we all would agree that the Center and PG spots are the hardest to fill, and 7 footers with Roy's skills are harder to find than wing players with Danny's skills. I wouldn't trade Hibbert unless we were getting a star player in return.

    I think Roy will be with the Pacers for a long time. IMO, he is already a top 5 Center in the EC. I would list only Howard and Lopez ahead of him with Z and Horford rounding out the top 5. (I consider Horford a PF, but he was listed as a Center so I included him) So I think Roy has a legitimate shot to be an all-star someday.
    Andrew Bogut is better than the hibbert/horford/ilgauskas imo

    Centers take a bit more time to become really good players they usually devlop later in their careers when they learn all the little tricks of the trade. So as far as roy is concerned showing as much talent as he has this early in his career as well as the improvment he has shown from season to season i expect him to become a very good center in this league.

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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    Ya Roy is /has been one of my favorite Pacers of all time , in regards to his likability.

    Roy is one of them rare old school, hard nosed/working players to come along in a long time..

    Like I said before we drafted him , and I still see it... Roy for some reason really, really reminds me of Robert Parrish..

    And believe me, my Grandpa (R.I.P.) is the person who turned me onto basketball ,Larry Bird,Robert Parrish, Kevin McHale, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, Reggie Lewis, Bill Walton, Quinn Buckner, Brian Shaw,ML Carr,
    Gerald Henderson, Kevin Gamble , Dee Brown, Rick Fox.

    I am sure there are a few Celtics players I have left out.. But as a kid I grew up being an ULTIMATE die-hard Boston Celtics fan..


    After Bird had come back from his last operation , I think it was 91/92 season, and ultimately retired not too long after, I think I maybe watched the Celtics faithfully for between 2 and 3 years before I lost interest .
    During that time, is when I went from becoming a casual Pacers fan... into the raving mad lunatic of a Pacers fan that I am now .. lol



    .

    So when I see alot of Parrish in Roy .. it gets me all the more excited about his future as our Center , and growth as a player .

    It is so cool to watch a player grow into something special , especially if you have seen them play since college and/or their 1st game as a rookie in the NBA..


    Roy just has that old-school game and swagger in him...

    The main difference in Roy and Parrish though , is Parrish always seemed like the wise, quiet dude in his demeanor... he never said much..(but of course without the internet it was different back then in what you heard/read)..

    But on the court, he was at times silky smooth with finess, yet could surprise his opponent with his power game..

    That last part I mentioned , also reminds me of Hibbert.. although right now at Roy's stage in his growth, he hasn't quite "put it all together" yet in balancing out between power and finess.. We have seen an overabundance of finess, when he should have just powered his way in and slamming the ball for the easy score and possible and-1 .. I think with time Roy will correct this and make better decisions on being able to read .. which mode to turn on and in which situations..


    It is a good time to be a Pacers fan... whether you realize it yet or not .



    .

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    Found the above interview with Parrish that i have never seen before.. i figured alot of you would appreciate it..


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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    In my view he's pretty untouchable, there's always some sort of stupid scenario where he's not, but I wouldn't let him go.

    There just aren't very many natural 5's in the league in more and when you're lucky to get one you need to hang on to him. If we could get a coach to run more of an offense through him I think you would see even more value in him.

    I love his attitude and his passing ability. I would say he's the 2nd most important piece to the pacers puzzle

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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    It's been obvious to me since the beginning of last season that Hibbert should be the focal point of the offense. Unfortuately, our coach thinks Troy Murphy is the focal point.

    Everything should run through Roy in an inside outside game. He is pretty much unguardable in the low post one on one, as well as a good passer out of the double team. What we really need is a Power Foward who is going to be there to clean up the boards, not a psuedo PF who stands out at the 3pt line and never even tries for an offensive board. This is the Pacer's fatal flaw and why Jim is so hated. He is too stubborn to use Hibbert the right way and not just that, but views Hibbert as a detriment to the offense it seems. Bet your *** if he had any other option he would have benched Hibbert, and he did. With our MVP Troy Murphy playing C a ton of games. God, our coach breaks my balls.

    On defense it is the same situation. Roy can play post defense pretty well, but he gets killed by faster guys who face him up. Roy can be that elite shotblocking presence, but he really needs another good defender at the 4.

    I think Troy and Roy are a horrible combination to put on the floor together. But since Troy is our MVP, that is who Roy gets to play with... all the freakin time.. I can't wait till we get a new coach who wants to play a real PF next to Roy.

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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    It's been obvious to me since the beginning of last season that Hibbert should be the focal point of the offense. Unfortuately, our coach thinks Troy Murphy is the focal point.
    I don't really disagree with you at all, 'fish; but let me do a UB impersonation and ask,

    "What if TPTB's win-however-you-can attitude implies that Obie has felt that Hibbert isn't yet ready to be the focal point; that Murphy, however suboptimal, has been the best option?

    "Moreover, what if, through a strong training camp, Hibbert convinces Obie that he now is ready?

    Can you allow that Obie may indeed adjust his offensive priorities ... or have you soured on him (in part) for being 'too stubborn' and therefore doubt his ability to adjust?"

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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by DrFife View Post
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    I don't really disagree with you at all, 'fish; but let me do a UB impersonation and ask,

    "What if TPTB's win-however-you-can attitude implies that Obie has felt that Hibbert isn't yet ready to be the focal point; that Murphy, however suboptimal, has been the best option?

    "Moreover, what if, through a strong training camp, Hibbert convinces Obie that he now is ready?

    Can you allow that Obie may indeed adjust his offensive priorities ... or have you soured on him (in part) for being 'too stubborn' and therefore doubt his ability to adjust?"
    I would be the first to sing Jim's praises if he drops his stubborn act and changes up his gameplan to a winning strategy. I just don't think he can do it. I think he is so entrenched in his system that he is blind to everything else.

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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    You know how SportsGuy always throws out the phrase, "Just know, he means more to us than he does to you" when talking about trades? Well, I feel like with Roy, it's just the opposite. How many times do we see other team's broadcasters and media rave about Roy and how impressive he is?

    Now, yes, before Jimmy's hit squad jumps on me, yes, O'Brien gives him lip service every now and again. But do we ever see it on the court? The problem is, any team where "Troy Murphy was our MVP" isn't going to appreciate a real post player more than the other guy. That makes me fearful that we could end up trading him.
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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by DrFife View Post
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    I don't really disagree with you at all, 'fish; but let me do a UB impersonation and ask,

    "What if TPTB's win-however-you-can attitude implies that Obie has felt that Hibbert isn't yet ready to be the focal point; that Murphy, however suboptimal, has been the best option?

    "Moreover, what if, through a strong training camp, Hibbert convinces Obie that he now is ready?

    Can you allow that Obie may indeed adjust his offensive priorities ... or have you soured on him (in part) for being 'too stubborn' and therefore doubt his ability to adjust?"
    Excellent UB impersonation .

    Sorry, but if there is any shift not caused by a coaching change, it will be towards Danny due to teams choosing to put a defender on Murphy, and most certainly will not be towards Hibbert. The low post is an afterthought in the O'B system offensively, and its primary importance is as the final line of defense against the drives to the basket that his team's lack of perimeter defense allows to occur, and I cannot think of any team he has ever coached that that has not been the case.

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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    That makes me fearful that we could end up trading him.


    You take that back, (pretty please??????). Statements like that can manifest themselves into reality sometimes, especially from a powerful Darksider such as yourself.

    I am now more fearful that our search for a pg that shoots 3's will further damage our franchise. Thanks...

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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    The whole idea that any Pacer is untouchable is absurd.

    The only untouchable players are Kobe, Lebron, Wade, and Durant.
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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    The whole idea that any Pacer is untouchable is absurd.

    The only untouchable players are Kobe, Lebron, Wade, and Durant.
    The only NBA Pacer who has ever been untouchable, was Reggie Miller, and that only after his playoff performances began to be consistently seen.

    With respect to Hibbert, what point guard (supposedly the focus of our attempts at any trades so far this summer) could we actually get a team to trade to us for him that would improve the team in the long term more than Hibbert with a coach who utilizes the low post more prominently, especially now that the most readily available point guards are back off the FA market?

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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    No player is untouchable. Should the Lakers trade Kobe if Miami offered DWade and Lebron? I think so and I don't think it would be close. With that said, do you think DWade and Lebron would ever be on the same team for that type of trade to even be possible? I guess we have the answer to that.

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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    I would say that Roy is our most important and probably valuable player.
    Danny is a very good player who is our unquestioned leader.
    However, he's a good 2nd option forced into the 1st option scoring role. Because of our lack of scoring, he's become more of a jump shooter as other teams have learned to focus their defense on him.
    That's hurt Danny's overall game as he's 30' from the basket far too often. The Danny BEFORE this was a very effective rebounder and shot blocker and defender.
    A much more well rounded player.
    About a year ago I got a free month to one of the insider NBA report rags and the one thing that really struck me was a couple of scouts talking about the Pacers and saying that nobody worried about the P's because if Danny is the main threat, and it takes him 20 shots to get his 25pts, they can live with that every time.
    Because Danny has the comparatively large contract (to Roy not other borderlne all stars), I would guess Roy would be the Pacer most teams would be interested in acquiring.
    I think anyone that doesn't put a WHOLE BUNCH of value on a 7' low post scorer that passes well doesn't understand the game that well.
    I can't imagine more than 3 or 4 teams that wouldn't LOVE to have Roy.

    IMO - Danny has been our star by default. A very good player that has had to play "star" for this team. I would dearly love for Roy to average close to 20pts a game, have Tyler come back healthy and get 10, George good for a few, Brandon as consistant as he was at the end of the season, etc and let Danny get back to being the ALL STAR he could be if he didn't have to shoot so much.
    Let Danny spend more time in the paint, drop to 18pts, 10 rebounds and a couple of blocks and this team is completely different in configuration and competitively.

    Get a quality pg and this team is ready to blow up. (in the good way)

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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    No player is untouchable. Should the Lakers trade Kobe if Miami offered DWade and Lebron? I think so and I don't think it would be close. With that said, do you think DWade and Lebron would ever be on the same team for that type of trade to even be possible? I guess we have the answer to that.
    wrong kobe was a no trade policy in his contract but i get your point

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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    I wouldn't be shocked (but pleasantly surprised, to a point) if Jim does finally make Roy more of a focal point this season. His praise for Roy during the summer league went above and beyond what I'm used to hearing him say.

    I wonder if the combination of the latest improvements to Roy's game combined with now being a 3-year "vet" will prove to be what allows Jim to turn a corner on how he uses Hibbert.

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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I wouldn't be shocked (but pleasantly surprised, to a point) if Jim does finally make Roy more of a focal point this season. His praise for Roy during the summer league went above and beyond what I'm used to hearing him say.

    I wonder if the combination of the latest improvements to Roy's game combined with now being a 3-year "vet" will prove to be what allows Jim to turn a corner on how he uses Hibbert.
    Temper everything that Jim said about Roy during the summer league with the reminder that at the end of the season he said that he still see's Roy as a situational starter.

    In other words whenever we face the beast that is Toronto you will see Roy riding the pine.


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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Temper everything that Jim said about Roy during the summer league with the reminder that at the end of the season he said that he still see's Roy as a situational starter.

    In other words whenever we face the beast that is Toronto you will see Roy riding the pine.
    JOB has always been prejudiced against Roy.

    At the end of games, he will look for every excuse to have Roy on the bench: foul trouble, matchups, etc.
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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    I would say that he is the best player by position we have...my theory is that scoring wings come by all the time. There's many of them--even the great ones, such as All-Stars. Joe Johnson, Danny Granger, Melo, LeBron, Wade, Durant, etc. Then you even have like J.R. Smith, John Salmons, Corey Maggette, Anthony Morrow, Evan Turner, Wesley Johnson, etc. They all can score the ball and that is what they do best. The hardest thing to come by (imo) is a good true center, which is what we have in Roy Hibbert. Nowadays if you have a good center, they are smaller guys, but they muscle their way in (like Dwight...but he's a beast in every aspect) and don't really have many "post moves." Big Roy has some great post moves right now and is still working to refine his game. I honestly think this season will be a big one for Roy and I just hope that O'Brien makes plays for him and actually thinks about directing the players to throw the ball down low to Roy and go to work that way. Even as good as Granger is and has been, I think our most important piece is Hibbert as you just can't hardly find good true centers anymore.

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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    It became clear in December of 2008 what JOb's strategy is...and what he really wants out of a team and its players. That was the night when all of my questions about JOb were answered.

    It was the game against Golden State where we beat them something like 127-121. He was more animated than I had ever seen him...giddy like a school girl after that game...and I believe he said that "that is the way the game is supposed to be played". At the same time, Jarrett Jack said it was like a game played at the park. Lots of running up and down the floor and lots of threes. Both teams just happened to be hitting them that night.

    I guess you can claim that defense can be the focus in this type of game. Good luck convincing most people. A defense has no chance to setup and make it difficult to make shots when there's so much player movement. It's not a strategy that's normally successful when there is some level of parity across the league in terms of talent.

    So, with that said, I expect Hibbert to be underutilized regardless of what he might bring to the table.

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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Temper everything that Jim said about Roy during the summer league with the reminder that at the end of the season he said that he still see's Roy as a situational starter.

    In other words whenever we face the beast that is Toronto you will see Roy riding the pine.
    I remember when Lester Conner took over for O'Brien when we played against Toronto at home this past season and instead of using that dumb small lineup yet again, we used our "what we should use all the time" lineup (big lineup) and we absolutely killed Toronto...I believe we won by like 30 points or something like that. O'Brien is an idiot and I don't know why we still have this clown around.

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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by DrFife View Post
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    I don't really disagree with you at all, 'fish; but let me do a UB impersonation and ask,

    "What if TPTB's win-however-you-can attitude implies that Obie has felt that Hibbert isn't yet ready to be the focal point; that Murphy, however suboptimal, has been the best option?

    "Moreover, what if, through a strong training camp, Hibbert convinces Obie that he now is ready?

    Can you allow that Obie may indeed adjust his offensive priorities ... or have you soured on him (in part) for being 'too stubborn' and therefore doubt his ability to adjust?"
    OB said exactly that. That when Roy was benched it was because he wasn't decisive with the ball when they got it to him. He was firm on that from the beginning. Don't let the OB bashers get away with saying otherwise. WHEN he showed a lot of improvement in that area, he started playing a whole lot more. And a whole lot better.
    Down the stretch he was playing exceptionally well.
    And playing just like his coach had requested..........

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    Default Re: The Value of Hungry Hungry Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by MLB007 View Post
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    OB said exactly that. That when Roy was benched it was because he wasn't decisive with the ball when they got it to him. He was firm on that from the beginning. Don't let the OB bashers get away with saying otherwise. WHEN he showed a lot of improvement in that area, he started playing a whole lot more. And a whole lot better.
    Down the stretch he was playing exceptionally well.
    And playing just like his coach had requested..........
    I would almost agree with you, but Jim went against his word (no!! [/shockface]) the last game of the year in DC when Roy was having a very good game and he pulled him out late in the 4th.

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