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Carmelo wants out of Denver

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  • #16
    Re: Carmelo wants out of Denver

    Giving up Camby for nothing in order to stay under the L.T. was a bad move, and this was at a time when they really needed a big man. They haven't gone to the extent many teams do to build a team around their franchise player.
    Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

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    • #17
      Re: Carmelo wants out of Denver

      I hate the modern NBA "superstar." LeBron, Bosh, Amar'e, and now apparently Paul and Melo. Every one of those players had GMs and teammates who would walk through fire for them and each of them wants to take the easy way out and walk away. I'd respect them if they took massive paycuts to play with other teams but it's always going to be "give me my max dollars and trade me to the exact team that I want to play for" until one of these GMs decides not to play ball. I hope it's the Nuggets' GM and Melo has to "settle" for 5yrs/$85M instead of 6yrs/$120M somewhere else.

      Dirk Nowitzki is such a perfect anti-superstar that I can't help but cheer for him and his imperfect supporting cast. Has any modern player done more with less than Dirk? He's had 10 years of one-dimensional, overrated, old teammates and is still in the conversation every single year as the playoffs begin. I wish more players would follow his example.

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      • #18
        Re: Carmelo wants out of Denver

        Agree. What else could Denver have done? (Outside of getting a coach that can draw up inbound plays).

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        • #19
          Re: Carmelo wants out of Denver

          Had LeBron, while he was still in Cleveland, had the talent Carmelo had in Denver, they'd have won the East every year.

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          • #20
            Re: Carmelo wants out of Denver

            I would not blame for Melo wanting to build their own "Heat trio".
            If your can build a champ team with agreement between players,
            why wast time for waiting the stupid GM to do the same?

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            • #21
              Re: Carmelo wants out of Denver

              I would trade Danny and whoever for Melo all day long, that guy is a beast.
              @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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              • #22
                Re: Carmelo wants out of Denver

                I think New Jersey has the assets but does Melo really want to end up there (and Brooklyn). The only possible role I see the Pacers playing is as a source of expiring contracts, but nothing is coming to mind right now.

                New York has jack when it comes to assets.

                Send him to the Clippers.

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                • #23
                  Re: Carmelo wants out of Denver

                  Originally posted by rexnom View Post
                  Agree. What else could Denver have done? (Outside of getting a coach that can draw up inbound plays).
                  Apparently, the Nuggets are having issues in upper management and ownership. Mark Warkentein, who was exec of the year a couple years ago and well regarded, was not brought back. Neither was Rex Chapman.

                  A guy named Bret Bearup is playing a similar role to the Nugz owner as Robert Rowell played with the Warriors. And that's not a good thing. At all. Basically, he's the owner's buddy and thinks he knows more than guys like with actual experience running a team like Warkentein and Chapman. Anyone who is playing the role of GM has to report to this Bearup dude, and that's why nobody with any reputable amount of experience wants to work for the Nugz. These fragile ego know nothings like Bearup and Rowell are guys who help run franchises into the ground.

                  http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_15764171

                  Then there's issues with whether or not Stan Kroenke is going to buy the St. Louis Rams or not. I'm not sure what that means for his Nugz, but it's clear that everything in pro sports starts up top. And when you have some kind of dysfunction up top, it trickles down and creates an unstable environment. It's been illustrated over and over again in this league how bad ownership can just wreck a franchise and the Nugz are apparently headed down that path.

                  As a Warrior fan, this kind of thing sounds oddly familiar

                  All of this reflects on the man at the top. Kroenke's aversion to publicity in a very public business has created an odd disconnect in the organization: Everyone is publicly accountable except for the owner, his adviser and his son.

                  So the elder Kroenke hires people to provide the public accountability required of a pro sports team's front office — Kiki Vandeweghe, Warkentien, Chapman — and then tires of them and the publicity they receive. More than one Nuggets official over the years has asked me to keep his name out of the paper so as not to antagonize the owner.
                  You could've just swapped out Kroenke's name with Chris Cohan and it would've read perfectly. That's a pretty scary thought. If I were Carmelo, I'd want out to.
                  Last edited by d_c; 08-17-2010, 09:31 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Carmelo Anthony Likely To Leave Denver

                    Originally posted by Young View Post
                    By Ric Bucher
                    ESPN The Magazine
                    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5468878



                    I can't say I would be suprised like this.

                    I don't think the Nuggets have done enough job to build a championship level team around Carmelo. What do they have player wise that would make him want to stay?
                    He's a talented chukker. Nothing more.
                    Why would you think he was good enough to build a championship team around?

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                    • #25
                      Re: Carmelo Anthony Likely To Leave Denver

                      Originally posted by MLB007 View Post
                      He's a talented chukker. Nothing more.
                      Why would you think he was good enough to build a championship team around?
                      I dunno. Maybe he's not the very, very best, but he's probably in the tier right below that. He's been one of the most gifted scorers of the decade.

                      And if you wouldn't bother building around Carmelo, why then even waste time building around Granger, who is older and not as good as Carmelo?

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                      • #26
                        Re: Carmelo wants out of Denver

                        Originally posted by spreedom View Post
                        I hate the modern NBA "superstar." LeBron, Bosh, Amar'e, and now apparently Paul and Melo. Every one of those players had GMs and teammates who would walk through fire for them and each of them wants to take the easy way out and walk away. I'd respect them if they took massive paycuts to play with other teams but it's always going to be "give me my max dollars and trade me to the exact team that I want to play for" until one of these GMs decides not to play ball. I hope it's the Nuggets' GM and Melo has to "settle" for 5yrs/$85M instead of 6yrs/$120M somewhere else.

                        Dirk Nowitzki is such a perfect anti-superstar that I can't help but cheer for him and his imperfect supporting cast. Has any modern player done more with less than Dirk? He's had 10 years of one-dimensional, overrated, old teammates and is still in the conversation every single year as the playoffs begin. I wish more players would follow his example.
                        IMO - these shortsited idiots are messing with a setup that has created a multi-BILLION dollar industry.
                        This could end up killing the league in the long run.
                        Why would any new owner buy in and risk their butt when their star's loyalty is only as long as the 000's you tack on their lifestyle.
                        All so they can get another 20 or 30 million dollars added to their estate.
                        Dip****s, all of them.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Carmelo wants out of Denver

                          Originally posted by MLB007 View Post
                          IMO - these shortsited idiots are messing with a setup that has created a multi-BILLION dollar industry.
                          This could end up killing the league in the long run.
                          Why would any new owner buy in and risk their butt when their star's loyalty is only as long as the 000's you tack on their lifestyle.
                          All so they can get another 20 or 30 million dollars added to their estate.
                          Dip****s, all of them.

                          FWIW, Lebron took less money to go the Miami. Lebron didn't leave Cleveland because the Cavs weren't willing to pay. And the Nugz are apparently offering Carmelo a MAX deal that is giving him pause.

                          Another thing: The league was arguably at its peak in popularity when two teams in the 80s were responsible for winning 8 out of 10 titles. People say imbalance will kill the league, but in fact the league was arguably at its healthiest during the 80s when it was basically just two teams that mattered.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Carmelo wants out of Denver

                            Originally posted by d_c View Post
                            FWIW, Lebron took less money to go the Miami. Lebron didn't leave Cleveland because the Cavs weren't willing to pay. And the Nugz are apparently offering Carmelo a MAX deal that is giving him pause.

                            Another thing: The league was arguably at its peak in popularity when two teams in the 80s were responsible for winning 8 out of 10 titles. People say imbalance will kill the league, but in fact the league was arguably at its healthiest during the 80s when it was basically just two teams that mattered.
                            And it was really not much different in the 90's.
                            "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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                            • #29
                              Re: Carmelo Anthony Likely To Leave Denver

                              Originally posted by MLB007 View Post
                              He's a talented chukker. Nothing more.
                              Why would you think he was good enough to build a championship team around?
                              Here's an Insider article that made the same point several weeks ago - that Carmelo is a inefficient scorer who doesn't make his team better. I'm very high on efficiency and new school stats in general, but I have difficulty squaring that analysis with Denver's improvement after bringing on Melo. Then again, I don't know my Nuggets history very well, so maybe someone can tell me whether drafting Carmelo alone catapulted the Nuggets to elite status, or whether other additions like Billups were as or more influential.

                              http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insid...ory?id=5439653

                              Originally posted by "By Tom Haberstroh, Special to ESPN Insider"

                              Carmelo Anthony has averaged 20 points per game every season since he arrived in the NBA. This past campaign, he became the third-youngest player ever to reach the 10,000-point plateau, behind only Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. And next summer, he could hit the open market as an unrestricted free agent.

                              But despite all those gaudy point totals, the three-time All-Star may not even be worth the max deal a team would likely give him in 2011.


                              At first glance, Anthony seems like a member of the NBA's elite, largely due to his scoring prowess. But a deeper look at the points column and elsewhere in his game reveals a player who lives on an undeserved reputation more than his actual impact on wins.

                              It's tough to argue with his 28.2 points-per-game average in '09-10, but in the game of basketball, how a shooter gets his points is more meaningful than the raw number itself. To see that, we need to peel back the layers.

                              Let's first talk about Anthony's shot volume. It's not exactly a secret that 'Melo likes to shoot the rock, but his propensity to launch shots may raise some eyebrows. This past season, no player in the NBA took more shots per minute than Anthony -- not Kobe, not LeBron, not even scoring champ Kevin Durant.

                              It may seem obvious that a player worthy of 20 shots per game would have a healthy conversion rate. But in Anthony's case, that's far from the truth. Anthony, in reality, had a below-average field goal percentage (.458) this past season -- and his career percentage (.459) is no different. (The league average is .463.)

                              The sharp readers out there will point out that traditional field goal percentage doesn't reflect Anthony's shooting ability, since he launches a healthy dose of 3-pointers, which obviously count more on the scoreboard. That's true. But if you've been paying attention, you know Anthony is not a good shooter from beyond the arc, so that doesn't help his case. As a career .308 percent 3-point shooter, his shot from downtown ranks far below the norm (the average small forward shot .349 last season; Melo shot .316) and any progress he seemingly made in 2008-09, when he shot a career-high .371, disappeared. Even if we incorporate the added point bonus of a 3-pointer, the Syracuse product's shooting percentages are, at best, average.

                              It seems that, anyway we slice it, Anthony is a gunner at the core. His exceptional skill on offense is his ability to get his shot off, whether it's attacking the rim or through a patented pull-up jumper on the perimeter. But interestingly enough, Anthony got his shot blocked a whopping 109 times last season, which ranks as the second-highest total in the league, according to Hoopdata.com. Evidently, he doesn't lack perseverance.

                              Anthony's case illustrates a fundamental problem in conventional basketball analysis: scoring averages don't reflect efficiency. It's true that Anthony scored 28.2 points per game last season, but it's also true that no player missed more shots as often as Anthony did. Feel free to credit his skill but also pay attention his lofty shot volume and playing time.

                              And that's before we consider the disguise of team pace. Since Anthony entered the league, the Denver Nuggets have averaged 95.9 possessions per game, which places them as the third -fastest squad in the NBA over that period of time (and just a fraction behind the high-octane Phoenix Suns). Over that same span, the Nuggets have squeezed out an extra four possessions per game when compared to the average NBA team. Do the math, and the Nuggets have enjoyed nearly 2,000 extra possessions above the norm since Anthony joined the NBA. That's a ton of extra opportunities that can pad the per-game stats used as measuring sticks.

                              So after stripping out the inflationary effect of fast pace and boiling down Anthony's numbers to a per possession level, his scoring punch looks even more pedestrian. How pedestrian? Anthony's career offensive rating, an efficiency measure that calculates how many points a player produces per 100 possessions he uses, checks out at 107, which sits right at the league average. For reference, 2003 draft-mates James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh have earned 114, 111, and 113 lifetime offensive ratings, respectively.

                              Before we prematurely call Anthony an average player, there is something to be said for the burden of trust. Not every player can still perform while shouldering the heavy scoring responsibility that Anthony has endured. But the Nuggets have probably allowed Anthony to shoot far too often if efficiency -- and winning -- is their goal. In fact, last season Melo was only sixth on his own team in ORtg (110), trailing far behind other legit weapons like Nene (124), Chauncey Billups (120) and Ty Lawson (118).

                              Aside from scoring, Anthony doesn't have many other bankable weapons as a player. His rebounding (career 6.2 rpg) is only slightly better than what we'd expect from a small forward, and he doesn't create opportunities for his teammates like Paul Pierce, Wade and James can. Furthermore, he hasn't shown the intensity and dedication on the defensive end that you'd want from a max player.

                              In the end, Anthony's game demonstrates why it's important to strip away the biases that color our perceptions of elite players. In Anthony's case, the excessive shot volume, his team's stat-padding tempo and the lack of a true 3-point game makes his 28.2 ppg seem far less impressive than his sparkling reputation would suggest.

                              If anything, it's time we moved on from per-game statistics to evaluate our players. Millions of dollars are wasted every year basing player value on the archaic statistics that teams used half a century ago. And someone will surely overpay Anthony and offer him a max contract -- just look at the deals Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay got.

                              If the New York Knicks, rumored to be the favorites to land Melo if he decides to leave Denver, are expecting salvation from Anthony next summer, they're going to be very disappointed with their investment. It would be a much a wiser move to throw that cash toward the pursuit of Chris Paul, a real max player.
                              2010 IKL Fantasy Basketball Champion Baltimore Bulldogs

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                              • #30
                                Re: Carmelo wants out of Denver

                                If he doesnt want to be in denver he doesnt want to be in denver. He has east coast family and wants to be in New York. As a person there is nothing wrong with that.

                                Everyone here has to remember these are PEOPLE first basketball players second. They have to do what is best for their lives. THATS IT

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