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Thread: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

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    Default Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Like most Pacers fans, I’ve been following this team’s moves over the summer, particularly their draft picks and the recent 4-team trade (KUDOS TO LARRY BIRD & JIM MORWAY, BTW!), as well as, reading some of the threads that discuss player rotations, etc., and a few things stand out with me that I would like to share with the readers. Keep in mind that my opinions are based on how I see the roster as it currently stands, as well as, how I believe the coaching staff can utilize the roster in order to get the maximum usage at each position based on the overall makeup of the team to date. In doing so, I will also provide a position-by-position breakdown of how I see where each player fits and the pros and cons of each. And with that, here we go...

    Point Guard: The addition of Collison definite has the "potential" of stabilizing the most important position on the roster. Without question, the Point has been a position in flux for the Pacers since the days of Mark Jackson’s departure. Excluding TJ Ford, the Pacers have had at least six different starting PG’s since - Ollie, Anderson, Anthony, Tinsley, Jack and Watson. I won’t dare mention the many backup PG’s who have come and gone. Needless to say, this team needs a PG who can lead, remain healthy, establishes tenure but most importantly takes pride and ownership of this vital position. The obvious hope is that Collison is the future, as well as the present, for this team at PG. However, his acquisition creates some problems. For starters, you have AJ Price waiting in the wings. I’m sure coming into this season he may have had the impression he would at least be the backup-PG, but his injury may push him as far back as the #4 PG. How can this be? Well, TJ Ford is still a Pacer. Thus, the problem is obvious. Unless he is traded or he finds himself benched again by coach O’Brien, I don’t think Price will see as much playing time as he had hoped coming into the season at least not until he fully recovers from his knee surgery and definitely not before the trade deadline. But Price isn’t the only player who’s time and development from this position may become stalled. Stevenson may also find it difficult to see playing time this year even as a combo Guard. I’ll go into more detail later on why I believe this to be so when I discuss the Shooting/Scoring Guard position. For now, the only way I see the rotation improving at this position is to trade TJ Ford. I do believe, however, that in the interim between Price healing and the trade deadline, we will see Collison and Ford running the Point. Who starts is the bigger question. My money is on Collison only because he gives coach O’Brien more of what he wants from a PG - a passer with good court vision, the ability to defend at the point of attack, and the ability to score along the perimeter. Collison’s ability to probe the defense and make quick decisions above all else makes him the more suitable choice as a starting PG. Nonetheless, we’ll have to wait and see if Ford can finally get his act together plays more up to the style coach wants. Regardless of whether or not Ford complies or not, whether he increases or decrease his trade value, management will make every attempt to trade him or buy him out. Until he’s gone, our two younger up and coming PGs will continue to wait and watch from the sideline.

    Shooting Guard: I see this position in as much turmoil as the PG position and here’s why - the acquisition of James Posey. That statement may come as a bit of a surprise for most readers, but there’s a reason why I make this pronouncement. As the roster currently stands, we have Brandon Rush, Paul George, Mike Dunleavy and Lance Stevenson fighting for playing time here. (It should be noted that Dunleavy and Stevenson could see playing time at other positions, SF and PG, respectively. More on the SF position in a moment.) However, as I see the makeup of this roster and based on Brandon Rush’s performance since his acquisition and the overall fluctuations this position has undergone since Reggie Miller retired and Stephen Jackson was traded, I don’t see Brandon Rush as the future SG for this team. My reason for this have been very well documented by the fans and sports analysts alike, as well as coach O’Brien and Bird themselves: Rush hasn’t show the confidence and consistency required of a reliable, starting Shooting Guard. While he does bring a skillset to this position that really haven’t been since in a while, i.e., his ability to drive baseline and get to the rim, his defense, and his ability to play above the rim, he still hasn’t taken ownership of this position. In his defense, I believe a large part of as to why he hasn’t done so is because of how coach O’Brien has "plugged" him into the offense. In my observations, I believe coach wants Rush to become a prototypical catch-n-shoot type of SG. But that’s not exactly Brandon Rush’s game. He’s far more effective if he’s allowed to move with the ball and "react" to what the defense gives him as opposed to relying on designed plays to contribute while on the floor. He can take his man off the dribble and drive the lanes, go base line, step inside for jumpers, or hand outside the arch for the 3, but I think he often times feels he’s been pigeonholed, and that probably makes him feel unsure of his capabilities or perhaps he believes he has more to offer but his abilities are being constrained within this offense. Either way, Brandon Rush hasn’t shown me that "the Rush is on!" And like many Brandon Rush fans, I’ve been waiting to see him break out of his college-confined shell and become an NBA caliber basketball players. The wait continues... As such, I would drastically change the rotation at this position and insert Danny Granger as the starting SG. I know I’ve just received several wide-eyed looks, but there’s a reason for this and once you see my rotation which I will provide later, you will understand why. For now, just know that based on my observation of the players and how the roster currently stands, I believe this shift will have a dramatic improve on team defense and strengthen the team’s ability to attain a 3-pronged offense which is vital to every contending/championship caliber team. Stevenson could also see playing time at SG, but he'd likely fall behind Paul George who is taller, stronger and has performed from this position at a higher collegic level. My assessment as far as the potential for playing time between these two rookies, therefore, is George would see more minutes that Stevenson. But this isn't a knock on Stevenson; it simply means that it's quite possible the coaching staff (O'Brien) may want to hold Stevenson back and see how things shape up at PG and groom either as a Combo Guard. Either way, Stevenson should see more playing time over the next year or two either due to Dunleavy's expiring contract or if a player or two are among the Guards are traded. So, to Stevenson I'd say "be patient; your day will come soon. For now, just soak it all in and learn what you can and work to get better day-by-day."

    SmallForward: If Granger is moved to SG or PF as has been suggested by Bird in his recent press conference concerning the acquisition of Collison and Posey, who will start at this position? James Posey, of course! This is where the improved team defense begins to shape up. As a veteran player, James Posey provides the attributes on both sides of the ball this team desperately needs. He’s a smart and savvy player who is patient with the ball and won’t force shots. He’s not known to be a post-up SF, but he does posses this skill. But one thing he will do unlike why Dahntey Jones was brought here for is relief Granger of this defensive assignment along the Wing. This is important if Granger is to continue being the offensive threat, that "Go-To-Guy" every team needs. This is not to say that Danny should slack off in playing stronger defense regardless of what position he plays, i.e., SF, SG or PF, but in shifting him to SG, Danny will no longer be that player who matches up to the opposing team’s best offensive threat. If Posey is to become this team’s new starting SF, who will back him up? Based on experience, players development, defense and overall talent, I believe that job should befall Mike Dunleavy. Yes, another surprise choice, but again there is a reason for this and it’s based moreso on how Dunleavy would fit with the 2nd Unit as you will see when I present my version of the rotation later. But assuming that Dunleavy remains with this team (as he is one of those expiring contracts Bird mentioned in the press conference), he would fit better as the 6th or 7th man moreso than Dahntey or Brandon.

    PowerForward: The primary reason this position has been in flux since JO was traded is due to the very reason JO’s productivity dropped prior to his departure - player health, i.e., Hansborough, Foster. Anther aspect that has contributed to the instability from this position has been the youth movement that followed, i.e. Soloman Jones, McRoberts. Suffice it to say, no player has been able to take ownership of the PF position any more than one has been able to make PG or SG their own. But I believe that is about to change. Trading Troy Murphy opens the door for either Tyler Hansborough or Josh McRoberts to step through and take control of the 4-spot! Of the two, I believe McRoberts presently is more poised to do so. Moreover, he’s probably a better fit to play alongside Roy Hibbert than Hansborough because of his speed, rebounding ability and ability to spread the floor alittle more than Hansborough. Of course, Hansborough still has the stigma of his vertigo to get over. So, until he can demonstrate that he is over that ailment, my vote would be to give the starting PF job to McRoberts. He’s a much more athletic players than Hansborough, plays above the rim, has quickness, amazing reach, will hustle for loose balls just like Hansborough and Foster, can rebound, has shown shot blocking ability and has this uncanny ability to constantly stay in motion and get in on plays you wouldn’t expect him to be part of. I love McRobert’s "youthful exuberance"! I just hope the young man doesn’t hurt himself. But as they say in football, "those who are afraid to take a hit usually are the one’s who get hurt!" I believe Josh McRoberts will "wear the helmet" and get out there and do the dirty work a player from the PF position needs to do....things Troy Murphy would not do. McRoberts is a natural big man. He’ll bring back that tough-guy persona that has been missing from this position for the Pacers that hasn’t been seen since the days of the Davis Boys.

    Center: I goes without saying Hibbert owns this position. But don’t confuse him taking ownership of it with him dominate from the paint just yet. He’s still young, growing, learning, developing into the kind of skilled, tough minded Center we’ve commonly seen from most well known Centers throughout the history of the NBA. I was never more thrilled to learn that management had brought in Bill Walton to "tutor" Hibbert. I can’t wait to see how he applies what he has learned on the hardwood. But make no mistake - Roy Hibbert is the present and the future Center for this franchise. His backup should be a healthy Jeff Foster, whom we all have come to know, love and admire. Jeff remains one of the most under rated Center/PFs in the league, but he earned much respect when Tim Duncan spoke candidly about him on this issue, as well as, when announcers began to speak highly of his unique rebounding ability. One should NEVER under estimate the importance of 2nd-change shot opportunities, and the Pacers missed that asset once Foster and Hansborough went out last year. Hopefully, both are able to return and remain contributors for this team. You don’t have a more loyal players dedicated to his craft than Jeff Foster. Yet, his presence posses a threat to Magnum "PI" Rolle’s development should management be able to sign him which I pray they will. Should Bird have no choice but to trade Foster to make room for Rolle, it would be a great lose for this team because as I look down the roster there may be one or two players who could be plugged into the backup Center position, i.e., Solo or McRoberts or even Rolle, but none will fill it like Foster can.

    Okay, now that I’ve addressed each position it’s time to outline who I believe would best fit as starters/reserves on this team:

    PG - Collison/Price/Ford
    SG - Granger/George/Stevenson
    SF - Posey/Dunleavy/Rush
    PF - McRoberts/Hansborough/Solo
    C - Hibbert/Foster/Rolle

    Notice that Dahntey Jones’ isn’t listed. The reason for this is as I’ve said above. When you really look at the various skills and potential make up of the roster and rotations and consider what each player brings and how they may work best with one another, Dahntey just doesn’t fit. You could plug him in behind Posey, but then you lose the ability to bring in a player who can either score from the perimeter, post up his player or drive the lanes. Yes, Dahntey can do these things but he’s not nearly as consistent with them as Dunleavy, and as such he doesn’t pose as big a threat. Even Brandon Rush, as inconsistent as he has been, can be a bigger threat offensively than Danhtey. Moreover, Rush has shown a greater ability to defend his man over Dahntey. Again, this defensive reduction on Dahntey’s part may stem from his attempt to showcase his offense moreso than his defense last year, but based on the statistics, as well as my own observations of these two players, I believe Dunleavy and Rush would make better fits within the rotation at SF over Dahntey.

    Those players in bold are players I believe could be traded by the trade deadline if not sooner. However, I’ve plugged them into the rotation to illustrate how I believe the lineups/rotations should pan out. Of course, this is only this fan’s opinion. Still, if you consider the full range of capabilities each player brings, it’s not difficult to see how man- and team-defense would improve among the starters as listed, as well as how the reserves led by Dunleavy can maintain a high level of continuity particularly on offense, but certainly on defense.

    Those players in italics are players I believe would either move up at their relative positions or be shifted elsewhere depending on how and future trades may shape up, i.e., should Ford be traded Stevenson would move from SG to 3rd PG behind Price and Rush could move to 3rd SG behind George or even ahead of him depending on how George performs or, if coach O’Brien preferred and assuming he shifts Granger to starting SG, he could backup Granger whereby Granger could continue to mentor him. Such a rotation would provide the Pacers with something else they haven’t had in over 10 years - skilled "craftsmen" at their respective positions.

    For far too long, this team has brought in a hodgepodge of "swing players", guys who could play from multiple positions. However, IMO, what this has done is erode professionals at each position, players who have honed their craft to become skilled post defenders, rebounders, pure shooters, penetrators, passers - the fundamental skills each player playing from their respective positions need in order to perfect their skills to the highest degree possible. To put it simply: Michael Jordan didn’t become the Hall of Fame player his is because he was shifted around from PG to SG to SF throughout his legendary career. He became the master of his craft be playing from one position and one position only throughout his career, and by doing so he perfected his craft. Same can be said of all the great Hall of Famers in NBA history! I believe this team needs to get back to that and it can start this year provided the roster pans out close to as I’ve outlined it above.

    Your thoughts are greatly welcomed.
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 08-13-2010 at 09:06 PM.

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  3. #2
    Flipped Off The Refs Larry Staverman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
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    I do believe, however, that in the interim between Price healing and the trade deadline, we will see Collison and Ford running the Point.
    I don't believe we will see Ford play another minute in a Pacer uniform. If he is on the roster he will be in a suit.

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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    You took a lot of time putting together this thread, and congrats for doing so.

    James Posey isn't going to be the starting SF. He's over the hill on downward skills. Granger will be the SF, and he will also be playing PF which you didn't mention. I don't envision seeing Granger at the SG position.

    With the acquistion of Collison and what seems to be the feeling in the FO about Ford, I don't see Ford has much future in a Pacers uni. Which makes me believe Stephenson as it stands of now will be b/u to Collison until Price can play and be the b/u whenever that might be.


    The 16th player or odd man out on your roster is Dahntay. You feel he has no place on this roster which says Bird made a mistake signing him to a 4 year contract as a FA. My feeling is he has more to offer at a cheaper salary than Posey. That is if Jimmy will play him.

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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Bird said in the Collison trade interview that AJ was going to be in camp. That he may be ready for game 1.
    "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
    Darnell Hillman (Speaking of former teammate Roger Brown)

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    Member pathil275's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Nice read.

    But i disagree with your sight of Granger's role with the team. I think that Granger was the only cornerstone of the franchise and a lock at the SF position, regardless of O'Brien's use of him in recent time. He has the seize, the physique and the necessary skill-set (good touch from midrange and beyond the arc, good drive to the rim, above defensive skills) to play the 3 for almost every NBA team on allstar level. Why would anybody want to change that and shear the team's power?

    So, for me Granger is (and stays) the starting small forward, backed up by Dunleavy if healthy and in good condition and Paul George. For the years to come, george is the obvious backup for Danny.

    Power forward is a tough one due to the uncertainties. Will Hansbrough be healthy enough to stay there for 20+ minutes on a nightly base? Even if that is the case, I personally have a hard time to predict his role with the team and his very impact. I haven't seen enough from him last season due to his concussion, but what I saw seemed promising. He found his way to the rim and to the line and that is something that the Pacers were lacking, a serious threat in the post with above passing skills as well.
    Today I would say he is better preserved as a backup. Maybe behind Posey, with either Rolle or McRoberts picking up the remaining minutes. I wouldn't use Posey more than 25 minutes a game, keeping him fresh for clutch time to defend the opposite team's go-to-guy. I agree with you on that and think he should see some minutes at the 2 or 3 just to lock down scorers.

    Obviously the Pacers have an oversupply at the 2. It is probably Brandon's job to loose and right so. I am not the biggest fan of his and think that a team could use a more traditional SG who shoots the lights out, but at the same time I like what he brings to the table in terms of defense, physique and occasional shot-blocking. This skillset and his cheap contract make D. Jones expendable. Honestly, I was dissappointed with his game in the last season- advertised as a top-notch defender, he barely cared about playing defense, picked up tons of fouls and he took way too many shots (needless to say that they were early in the shot-clock).
    I can see George sliding to the 2-spot occasionally, too.

    The point is played by Collison, no doubts about that. I would like to see Stephenson picking up big minutes behind Collison and then sliding over to the 2-spot once Price is ready to go. Depending how Stephenson played in that role, it will be a battle between the latter two with the winner backing up Collison. Btw, I am pretty sure there will be some setbacks for him in the course of the season where it might be necessary, even essential to back him up, to support him and to trust him (and NOT to bench him). I assume that O'Brien would bench him (as he did with Hibbert and Rush) just to play it old-school and show authority or whatever. I have a hard time believing that this might be the appropriate approach to deal with young, apsiring players, but that is not up to me.

    Center is an easy one - Hibbert, backed up by Foster. I doubt that S. Jones is still here on opening night.

    Just my opinion.

    Starting Lineup

    PG
    Collison
    Rush
    Granger
    Posey
    Hibbert
    Last edited by pathil275; 08-13-2010 at 03:16 PM.

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    Long time fan diamonddave00's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Who is going to guard Tim Duncan on opening night???? My guess is if no moves are made to add a power forward old reliable Jeff Foster will be the starter on opening night at pf.

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    Who is going to guard Tim Duncan on opening night???? My guess is if no moves are made to add a power forward old reliable Jeff Foster will be the starter on opening night at pf.
    Hibbert.

    Duncan is a Center. He calls himself a power forward, but he plays in the post and never strays too far from the basket.

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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Hibbert.

    Duncan is a Center. He calls himself a power forward, but he plays in the post and never strays too far from the basket.
    Then who guards the other San Antonio big man, presumably DeJuan Blair but perhaps Antonio McDyess or Tiago Splitter? It is hard to imagine anyone but Jeff has size/strength/bulk to contend with any of them.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Then who guards the other San Antonio big man, presumably DeJuan Blair but perhaps Antonio McDyess or Tiago Splitter? It is hard to imagine anyone but Jeff has size/strength/bulk to contend with any of them.
    Danny, Posey, McBob (6'10" 240lbs), Hansbrough (has the strength)

    I don't think you have to worry a lot about McDyess past his jump shooting these days. Blair....you have to hope our height advantage is enough to outdo his strength. Splitter....we'll find out.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Hibbert.

    Duncan is a Center. He calls himself a power forward, but he plays in the post and never strays too far from the basket.
    Didn't Hibbert play really well against Duncan last year? Seems like I remember being impressed with that.

    Hmm... found this on Youtube. Hibs doesn't look good in the beginning but had some good plays late in the game, including getting the bucket that put Indy ahead late and a nice block on Duncan (that ended up not mattering).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9eJd8V4zzQ

    Wow, I'll be so glad to not watch Ford any more. And that was on a good shooting night.
    Last edited by Anthem; 08-13-2010 at 04:29 PM.
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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Then who guards the other San Antonio big man, presumably DeJuan Blair but perhaps Antonio McDyess or Tiago Splitter? It is hard to imagine anyone but Jeff has size/strength/bulk to contend with any of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozwalt72 View Post
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    Danny, Posey, McBob (6'10" 240lbs), Hansbrough (has the strength)

    I don't think you have to worry a lot about McDyess past his jump shooting these days. Blair....you have to hope our height advantage is enough to outdo his strength. Splitter....we'll find out.
    Basically what he says.

    I don't see Blair sharing the floor with Duncan very much. Of his almost 1,500 minutes last regular season, only about a 26% of it was with Duncan on the floor - and he didn't share the court with Duncan for one single second in the playoffs. Pop doesn't like to play them together because - wait for it - it ****s up the spacing in the offense.

    I suspect you'll see Danny out there at the opening tip in San Antonio as the nominal 4, and I'm hopeful that McRobert or Hansbrough can emerge enough to get some minutes, and we'll go from there.

    As Oz says, the only guy I can see torturing us offensively is possibly Splitter - and I just don't know what to expect from him. Blair, you just have to keep off the boards, and McDyess you just have to get a hand in his face on his jumper.

  16. #12

    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    I've always been of the opinion that if you try playing the "match-up game" before the game even begins, you've affectively lost the game long before tip-off. Instead, you take stock of those threats you must contend with and make your player adjustments throughout the game.

    Example:

    Pacers -vs- Spurs. You know you have to contend with Duncan, Parker, Ginobli and perhaps one or two others. You tip your hand by changing your lineup to contend with them. Instead, you game plan from the locker room, stay with your starting-five but rotate players sooner than normal even if it means you go smaller or put forth a strong front-court. Either way, you don't pull Hibbert, for example, just because he's a rookie. Instead, you play him but sub him out sooner for Foster, or you start off w/Hibbert and McRoberts but rotate Hansborough for McRoberts sooner.

    But you don't tip your hand before the game is played. IMO, that's always been a huge mistake by both coach Carlisle and O'Brien.

    Path,

    Your lineup would work, but you'd also kill any chance of McRoberts or Hansborough seeing significant playing time. Moreover, you negatively affect the off/def "balance" I believe is essential for any team moving forward.

    Team chemistry is very important, and part of that chemistry is finding the right balance between a prolific offense and a strong defense. Such balance can't be part of your starting unit only. It must also be made an important part of your 2nd-Unit. Those teams that are able to bring in their reserves and still maintain a decent offensive and defensive presence are the teams that have found that balance among both their starters and reserves. It is for this reason that I did not place Granger at either Forward position based on the makeup of the roster currently. I think the Pacers can acheive a more balanced team overall by starting Posey at SF and Granger at SG.

    I don't expect Posey to be a scoring threat. That's not his role. His is to defend at the highest level possible against the opposing team's best player. In doing this, you free Granger to become the consistent offensive threat he has continued to be. The only problem with having Granger at the 2-spot is you take away his ability to post-players up. But you can regain that skill any time you need to by moving him back to SF during rotations. The one thing you don't want to do is kill any confidence you may have gained in McRobert's development over the summer. Believe me, there was a reason coach O'Brien wanted him to be part of Summer League play. He's being groomed to play alot more minutes at PF.

    Of course, you could go w/the lineup you've outlined, but how do you maintain a balanced offense while also retaining a strong defense now that you're left with George, Dunleavy, McRoberts and Hansborough to choose from? Do you rotate McRoberts or Hansborough in for Granger? Dunleavy is a better choice to sub in for Rush since he followed him at various times near the end of last season, but now you've lost the opportunity to get your #10 draft pick on the floor more often throughout the season.

    Balance...that's the #1 theme of the rotation I've proposed.
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 08-13-2010 at 05:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Our rotation this season is a "happy" problem.....but I'm looking more to next season.

    Below is our likely future core:

    PG - DC/AJ
    SG - BRush/Lance/Posey
    SF - Granger/George
    PF - ??? / Hansbrough / Rolle
    C - Hibbert / McRoberts

    That's the beauty of the trade....we will likely have our future 10-11 man rotation already set and this doesn't even include the 2011-2012 1st round pick. The only thing we need to do now is to get a Starting Quality PF....which we can get with copius amounts of $$$.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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  18. #14

    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Lots of good info/thoughts here ....................... BUT ........... If McRoberst is the starting PF, we're in trouble. Nice bench guy - starter - I simply don't see it.

    Carry on ................

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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    Lots of good info/thoughts here ....................... BUT ........... If McRoberst is the starting PF, we're in trouble. Nice bench guy - starter - I simply don't see it.

    Carry on ................
    The few times he's had starters minutes he's produced starters results. It's pretty early to write him off.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    The few times he's had starters minutes he's produced starters results. It's pretty early to write him off.
    That is true, but that is McRoberts at his best. At his best he could be a starter, but on average he isn't a starter.

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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    That is true, but that is McRoberts at his best. At his best he could be a starter, but on average he isn't a starter.
    What does this even mean? When given starter's minutes he produced starter's results. On average.

    He's played 20 minutes or more 13 times as a Pacer. I don't know a single NBA starter who didn't play 20 minutes per game. When given 20+ minutes, McRoberts has produced 11 points and 6 rebounds per game. The low end for an NBA starter is probably around the 30 minute per game mark. When given 30+ minutes, he produced 16 points and 12 rebounds.

    If he were to get true starter minutes, night in and night out, all the statistics point to him being able to put up legit starter numbers. If he averages 12 pts and 8 reb, in addition to his defense and passing, I don't see how anyone could be upset with that at the 4. And that is the low end.
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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    This is how I see it:

    PG - Collison/Price/Stephenson/.....Ford
    SG - Rush/Stephenson/George
    SF - Granger/Dunleavy/George
    PF - McRoberts/ Hansbrough/ Rolle
    C - Hibbert/ Foster/ McRoberts/ Rolle

    Hopefully Ford will be traded. This is the last year or Ford's deal, right? Can't we at least get a draft pick out of a 8.5 million expiring?

    I'm not sure what to do with D. Jones.
    Last edited by IndyPacer; 08-14-2010 at 04:03 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyPacer View Post
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    This is how I see it:

    PG - Collison/Price/Stephenson/.....Ford
    SG - Rush/Stephenson/George
    SF - Granger/Dunleavy/George
    PF - McRoberts/ Hansbrough/ Rolle
    C - Hibbert/ Foster/ McRoberts/ Rolle

    Hopefully Ford will be traded. This is the last year or Ford's deal, right? Can't we at least get a draft pick out of a 8.5 million expiring?
    I seriously doubt that we could get anything of significant value for Ford. I'd guess that we're going to get a salary dump of someone that we couldn't really use. We don't need another PG....we're stacked at SG and SF. That leaves getting a PF or Center. I doubt that we could get the type of PF that we would want long-term unless we include sweetner ( like BRush ).

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyPacer View Post
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    I'm not sure what to do with D. Jones.
    Me neither. I'd like to see if we could move him...but I'd think that he could be the true role Player that he was meant to be.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    If he averages 12 pts and 8 reb, in addition to his defense and passing, I don't see how anyone could be upset with that at the 4. And that is the low end.
    It about more than just numbers. Presence. Intimidation. Making people think about NOT going to the hoop when he's in there. McRoberts just doesn't have that factor.

    You could plug a lot of guys in that will put up adequate numbers. It's the other stuff this team needs. I'd prefer a guy that gets 7 and 9 that has the intimidation factor as opposed to a 14 and 6 that doesn't.

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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    I think it's interesting how no one is included D Jones, I understand why, but still.

    Another thing, all the talk of too many wings, how so?

    You have 6 Bigs, 6 Wings, 3 PGs. This is showing Lance at PG and no TJ Ford. I think it's a good line up, honestly.

    I'm not even worried about the PF position right now, I'd rather give guys a chance to win the position, get some playing time. The Pacers have PF who can finish and with some real PGs getting minutes that will help.

    Again I like the construction, Posey can help with bigger 3s defensively, whereas last year you didn't have that. You have a variety with the 3 PGs, quickness, Size, and PnR ability with DC, Lance, and AJ, respectively.

    I guess I'm saying I'm okay with Jeff, Roy, TH, McBob as your frontcourt rotation. If Jeff and TH go down again this year, I'm okay with playing DG and Posey there part-time. Lastly, if they go down, I wouldn't even mind playing Rolle and Solo as bench bigs. So unless a good or really good deal becomes available, I'm okay for now.

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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    Who is going to guard Tim Duncan on opening night???? My guess is if no moves are made to add a power forward old reliable Jeff Foster will be the starter on opening night at pf.
    And nothing wrong with it either. With Roy, Danny, Brandon and Collison, we have enough shooters to play a Dale Davis type and Jeff is the closest thing we've got if Hansbrough isn't ready.

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    Default Re: Pacers: A Beautiful Mess to Have!

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    It about more than just numbers. Presence. Intimidation. Making people think about NOT going to the hoop when he's in there. McRoberts just doesn't have that factor.

    You could plug a lot of guys in that will put up adequate numbers. It's the other stuff this team needs. I'd prefer a guy that gets 7 and 9 that has the intimidation factor as opposed to a 14 and 6 that doesn't.
    Intimidation factor? What does this mean?

    Blocking shots? He does that better than anyone on the roster.

    Taking hard fouls? He's the only one on the roster who has proven willing. Ask Lebron.

    In today's NBA, I don't understand the intimidation factor at all. It just doesn't exist.

    Unless you sign Brock Lesnar to play power forward.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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