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Thread: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

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    Call me Kauffie Kaufman's Avatar
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    Default Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    I know that many of you will refer me to other threads.....
    But I feel relatively strongly about this at this time.

    We've seen that as teams get assembled, sometimes it is nice to start off with a new coach. We've seen this illustrated numerous times in different sports - I really only follow professional football and basketball, but the support for the claim is there - and starts in Indianapolis. Interestingly, these are all guys that are sort of pinned with the tag of presumed future team leaders...

    Peyton Manning era started with Jim Mora
    Larry Brown days started along with Mark Jackson
    With LeBron Mike Brown was brought in to Cleveland

    I might be over optimistic with regards to Collison, but maybe this would be a nice time to clean house with regards to the coaches and bring in a new vision. We all see JOB's tenure limited at this time, so why let him install an offense that will only be used for one year?

    We have a nice core of players now. I think we might be able to attract a nice educator in a head coach at this point. Bob Hill, a great loveable guy, could only take this team so far back in 1992, but once there was a core he was out.

    I think we might have a core here.

    The only rational to keeping JOB are
    1) Finances
    2) The front office really thinks he can do a good job. This might be true but it seems not from this fan who now follows on the periphery in Rhode Island.
    "Sometimes, when you look Andy in the eyes, you get a feeling somebody else is driving." -- David Letterman

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    Batman's New Side Kick Psyren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    It's always the right time for a coaching change when JOB is the coach.

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    Call me Kauffie Kaufman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    Hahahaaaaaa

    I know JOB is the subject of a lot of ridicule on this board but would also like to get some nice discussion with regards to this.
    "Sometimes, when you look Andy in the eyes, you get a feeling somebody else is driving." -- David Letterman

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    Batman's New Side Kick Psyren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaufman View Post
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    Hahahaaaaaa

    I know JOB is the subject of a lot of ridicule on this board but would also like to get some nice discussion with regards to this.
    Haha sorry for that one.

    In all honesty, I'd rather just keep him around this season. If there's a time to get rid of him, do it next year when we'll have the cap space to add another big free agent (I hope) and then we'll have a full team to move forward with. Let the young guys run it this year and we'll see about a coach next season.

    However, I sure wouldn't be against canning JOB now...

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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    i dont think a coaching change should be made unless there is a clear cut better coaching candidate who is a reasonable possibility to come to indy

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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    It would the prefect time to bring a new coach IMO. I doubt it'll happen, but it seems like the right time.

    With our seemly instant brighter future with this trade, we should be able to attract quality coaching candidates.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    Change now. Because I can tell you whats going to happen. We might have a very good season, and he might get extended for years to come. Change now

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    Batman's New Side Kick Psyren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan_The_Dude View Post
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    Change now. Because I can tell you whats going to happen. We might have a very good season, and he might get extended for years to come. Change now
    Hmm, for some reason that thought slipped my mind.

    I change my vote. Fire him now!! NOW!!!!!

  10. #9
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    ...and now you can add to the reasons I didn't like seeing new assistant coaches brought in that were clearly not coming here to be the heir apparent to Jim O'Brien.

    Yes... It's time to fire Jim O'Brien. Oh wait... that's from one year ago...

    We have an odd situation brewing now. Several of us thinks there's no way O'Brien should screw this team up any further and we could use a real coach without the over-reliance on gimmicks and the blatant disregard of what his (bad) offense means to the team's defense (hurts it).

    But the team is also financially strapped and now has new assistant coaches on the roster. It doesn't seem like the most fair thing in the world to pull the rug out from under them or Jim O'Brien now. ...But fair doesn't matter here... It's what's best for the team. But we've set ourselves up NOT to make a coaching change any time soon. Too bad.

    I would've been fine firing O'Brien last season and giving Lester Conner last season as a tryout and this season if he warranted it.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan_The_Dude View Post
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    Change now. Because I can tell you whats going to happen. We might have a very good season, and he might get extended for years to come. Change now
    If we have a "very good" season, why wouldn't want to extend him?

    Isn't that a bit like saying you hope that Dunleavy doesn't have a good year so that we don't resign him?

    If he's good, he's good. And we keep him.

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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    There's always a time for a coaching change when you're dealing with Jim O'Brien.

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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    If we have a "very good" season, why wouldn't want to extend him?

    Isn't that a bit like saying you hope that Dunleavy doesn't have a good year so that we don't resign him?

    If he's good, he's good. And we keep him.
    but he's not good. If's he good next year it's probably because there is no Toy Murphy and there is Darren collison.

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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    ...and now you can add to the reasons I didn't like seeing new assistant coaches brought in that were clearly not coming here to be the heir apparent to Jim O'Brien...

    We have an odd situation brewing now. Several of us thinks there's no way O'Brien should screw this team up any further...

    But the team is also financially strapped and now has new assistant coaches on the roster. It doesn't seem like the most fair thing in the world to pull the rug out from under them or Jim O'Brien now. ...But fair doesn't matter here... It's what's best for the team.
    Yep. That's the biggest concern most of us have. What if we show a 6-8 game improvement in the W column? Is it possible that Bird/Morway then consider what JOB might be able to do with a significantly better PF in his lineup. If they acquire one, then perhaps they might believe JOB could get them another 6-8 wins.

    I agree with so many that say they don't even want Bird/Morway to be in a position where they might be tempted to extend.

    So, what they heck? I'd even keep the present assistants and coach by committee before continuing with JOB. [For those that want to challenge this statement, please first look up the word "facitious".]

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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersalltheway10 View Post
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    but he's not good. If's he good next year it's probably because there is no Toy Murphy and there is Darren collison.
    My point exactly.

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    Member Mr.ThunderMakeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    Can we steal Carlisle back from the Mavs? I kid, I kid

    Seriously though I can't stand O'Brien and his gimicky system, he's a major reason I've only midly been following the Pacers the last few years. I didn't like him the day we picked him up and I still don't. Bring in a good old-style coach who preaches the fundamentals of basketball, who actually gives a damn about the defensive end of the court, and hopefully someone who can help develop our young core (theres the reason I kid about Carlisle).

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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    A slant I also wanted to take was whether we want a lame duck coach influencing impressionable new minds --- i.g., do we want kids growing up falling in love with chucking threes like Granger and Antoine Walker??
    "Sometimes, when you look Andy in the eyes, you get a feeling somebody else is driving." -- David Letterman

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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.ThunderMakeR View Post
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    Can we steal Carlisle back from the Mavs? I kid, I kid

    Seriously though I can't stand O'Brien and his gimicky system, he's a major reason I've only midly been following the Pacers the last few years. I didn't like him the day we picked him up and I still don't. Bring in a good old-style coach who preaches the fundamentals of basketball, who actually gives a damn about the defensive end of the court, and hopefully someone who can help develop our young core (theres the reason I kid about Carlisle).
    I think the reason we hired him was bc we knew we were going to rebuild, so why pay a big bucks guy big bucks for a bottom feeding squad??

    I think an important question here is whether or not the core group of players respects him as a coach. A second core question here is whether management really respects him as a coach and not just a manager of sorts.
    "Sometimes, when you look Andy in the eyes, you get a feeling somebody else is driving." -- David Letterman

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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    I wouldn't mind, I've said a few times, I don't think O'brien will be good for Collison's game.

    But if we have to lose one more year, that won't be that bad.

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersalltheway10 View Post
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    but he's not good. If's he good next year it's probably because there is no Toy Murphy and there is Darren collison.
    What? I'm confused.

    Let's say that I accept the initial premise that "we're very good" next year. Let's also say that I accept the secondary premise that that reason is because we don't have Murphy and because we have DC.

    Are we planning on having Murphy or not having DC any time soon?

    Why would we not want to keep Obie if he leads us to a very good season? Won't that prove that, essentially, he is a very good coach when given the appropriate talent?

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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    What? I'm confused.

    Let's say that I accept the initial premise that "we're very good" next year. Let's also say that I accept the secondary premise that that reason is because we don't have Murphy and because we have DC.

    Are we planning on having Murphy or not having DC any time soon?

    Why would we not want to keep Obie if he leads us to a very good season? Won't that prove that, essentially, he is a very good coach when given the appropriate talent?
    So therein lies the question ---- is he a good coach? or are we just employing him as a warm body to keep a seat warm while we rebuild?

    I believe someone in the Pacers organization has to have a good sense of what the answer to this question is - and most probably its the players themselves who know.
    "Sometimes, when you look Andy in the eyes, you get a feeling somebody else is driving." -- David Letterman

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    Where does O'Brien's salary rank among his peers? I bet he isn't THAT cheap...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    I'd be surprised if he were in the top 20.
    "Sometimes, when you look Andy in the eyes, you get a feeling somebody else is driving." -- David Letterman

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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    It's too late in the year already for a coaching change. I'd rather wait and see how the season shakes out, who gets let go....we might have a great fit fall right into our laps.

    I'd be afraid of us hiring Mark Jackson if we let Jim go anywhere between now and the ASB.

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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    3 games into his first season with Indiana was the right time to consider a coaching change.

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    Default Re: Now is it the right time to consider a coaching change?

    I would love to see the Pacers let O'brien go at the end of this year and bring in a guy like Keith Smart. He's young, a local hero, has a long tenure as an assistant (10 years in GS which is longest in the NBA I believe), and he seems to be a guy players like. If you've survived at one spot 10 years in the NBA it says a lot about you. There is an article on hoopshype about Mickael Pietrus where he credits Smart with him still being in the NBA. And that's not the first time I've seen players throw praise his way. I just don't like O'briens style. I don't believe in it. And I don't like to watch that type of basketball either.
    Last edited by Taterhead; 08-12-2010 at 10:17 PM.

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