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Thread: Ford Rejects Buy-Out

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    Default Ford Rejects Buy-Out

    The Pacers tried to throw point guard T.J. Ford into Wednesday's four-team trade.

    When that didn't work they tried to negotiate a buyout with the veteran to a similar result.

    Indiana offered Ford a buyout of $5 million.

    "I'm not taking a buyout," said Ford, who is scheduled to make $8.5 million this coming season.
    IndyStar

    By Mike Wells

    http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsi..._get_what.html
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    PROUD 2 B A PACERS FAN! xtacy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ford Reject Buy-Out

    words can't express how much i dislike this guy.

    but i have to admit that if i were him i wouldn't accept either.

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    Remember #31 dohman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ford Reject Buy-Out

    He should.

    He is potentially hurting his career. Take the buy out. sign a one year deal for a team that needs you. Go out and prove you can play and get a bigger contract.

    If you sit on the bench you get a year older and people start to wonder if you still have it.

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    Default Re: Ford Reject Buy-Out

    Quote Originally Posted by xtacy View Post
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    words can't express how much i dislike this guy.

    but i have to admit that if i were him i wouldn't accept either.
    well if you think about it....hes bound to make $8.5 million this season...we're offerring him $5 million and he will become a free agent.

    Im sure there is some team out there that wouldnt mind having Ford for 3 years for $12 million (making it on average $4 million per season)

    Therefore, if he accepted the buyout:
    - $5 million from us
    - $4 million from a new contract (new team)

    that would make him $9 million for next season and A LOT more playing time. So if wouldnt have been so bad if Ford accepted, for both parties
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    PROUD 2 B A PACERS FAN! xtacy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ford Reject Buy-Out

    i don't think he's worth 3.5 mils a year but on second thought who knows there are so many stupid gm's in this league.

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    Default Re: Ford Reject Buy-Out

    I don't believe anyone is offering him 4M a year.

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    Default Re: Ford Reject Buy-Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    I don't believe anyone is offering him 4M a year.
    OR 3 yrs - esp w/ the new CBA arround the corner.
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    Default Re: Ford Reject Buy-Out

    Quote Originally Posted by xtacy View Post
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    i don't think he's worth 3.5 mils a year but on second thought who knows there are so many stupid gm's in this league.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    I don't believe anyone is offering him 4M a year.
    If D. Jones could get a 3 year $11 million contract, Im sure could get relatively the same. Its not like hes old
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    Default Re: Ford Reject Buy-Out

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    If D. Jones could get a 3 year $11 million contract, Im sure could get relatively the same. Its not like hes old
    But Dahntay is GOOD, a team player, and he plays defense.

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    Default Re: Ford Reject Buy-Out

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianDudley View Post
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    But Dahntay is GOOD, a team player, and he plays defense.
    GOOD???

    sure hes a team player, but how isnt Ford?

    Yes he plays defense, I totally agree. But his position is over-floaded in this league. PGs and PF/C are harder to find
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ford Rejects Buy-Out

    How does Dhantay's I'm-only-good-at-defense-but-guess-what-I'm-also-a-ballhog-if-I'm-playing-with-the-second-unit approach make him a team player?

    Back to the real topic at hand. $5 million is a 40% discount from the amount he's already guaranteed to receive. Why on earth would the Pacers think he'd accept that? He's got all the leverage, not the Pacers. I'm not a fan of TJ but nobody is accusing him of being a dummy. This isn't about TJ being greedy by refusing the low-ball buyout offer, its about the Pacers actually believing that was an appropriate buyout offer for the $8.5 million they owe him.

    I'm okay with the Pacers waiving him - they've got to pay the $8.5 million any way, and allowing him to clear waivers and sign with someone else for the vet's minimum so he can prove to them that he can't play anymore.
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    Default Re: Ford Rejects Buy-Out

    do you guys think there is still possibility of a dampier calderon ford swap? it doesn't look like that could be completely ruled out yet.
    follow me @TruenoPanda - lets talk Pacers!

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    Default Re: Ford Rejects Buy-Out

    Hey Kahn doesn't Minnesota need another PG?

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    Default Re: Ford Rejects Buy-Out

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    How does Dhantay's I'm-only-good-at-defense-but-guess-what-I'm-also-a-ballhog-if-I'm-playing-with-the-second-unit approach make him a team player?

    Back to the real topic at hand. $5 million is a 40% discount from the amount he's already guaranteed to receive. Why on earth would the Pacers think he'd accept that? He's got all the leverage, not the Pacers. I'm not a fan of TJ but nobody is accusing him of being a dummy. This isn't about TJ being greedy by refusing the low-ball buyout offer, its about the Pacers actually believing that was an appropriate buyout offer for the $8.5 million they owe him.

    I'm okay with the Pacers waiving him - they've got to pay the $8.5 million any way, and allowing him to clear waivers and sign with someone else for the vet's minimum so he can prove to them that he can't play anymore.
    Normally, if a contract is bought out (not only in basketball) it is bought out for about 82% of the remaining owed

    I agree, they Pacers were offering to buy him out at 58.8% which is a huge low-ball
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    Default Re: Ford Rejects Buy-Out

    What's your source on the 82%?

    And how many buyouts never take place in the NBA because the player is smart enough to refuse to accept anything less than 100 cents on the dollar?

    The only reason TJ Ford would accept any discount is if a trade was immenient that would send him someplace he wants to be even less than being in Indiana. Not sure that exists - I think TJ is waiting on the Pacers to trade him so he can go somewhere else and still make the entire amount he's been promised. If not, he'll sit behind the bench in street clothes and collect the entire amount he's been promised.

    Its just a game to us. But this is TJ's job. Would you rather make $170,000 next year and be under utilized or make $90,000? Not that he could pre-arrange it, but the only other way it would make sense would be to find a team willing to make a multi-year offer. Since there aren't many teams that seem interested in trading for him, that's probably unlikely, too. Who makes multi-year offers for 28 year old backup PGs? Those guys bounce around on one-year contracts, like Watson and the rest.
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  18. #16

    Default Re: Ford Rejects Buy-Out

    It's a bit of a lowball offer.

    I say offer him 6.5 M. That leaves him only 2M to make up. Worst case is that he signs one year for the vet min somehere and is short by a half mill or less for this year. BUT... he actually PLAYS, so that a year from now he gets a much better offer than he would get if (as expected) he is buried on the Pacers bench all season. He clearly would come out ahead, though the benefit would take more than 12 months to gain.
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    Default Re: Ford Rejects Buy-Out

    I do not blame the guy. With a looming lockout I would want to get as much money as I could. He is not going to make up that 3.5 million dollars any where else unless someone is in desperate need of a PG.

    Teams have seen the way he reacts to being a back up. So people are not going to be jumping over each other to sign him as a back up.

    I would take that extra 3.5 million and sit on the bench.

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    Default Re: Ford Rejects Buy-Out

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    How does Dhantay's I'm-only-good-at-defense-but-guess-what-I'm-also-a-ballhog-if-I'm-playing-with-the-second-unit approach make him a team player?

    Back to the real topic at hand. $5 million is a 40% discount from the amount he's already guaranteed to receive. Why on earth would the Pacers think he'd accept that? He's got all the leverage, not the Pacers. I'm not a fan of TJ but nobody is accusing him of being a dummy. This isn't about TJ being greedy by refusing the low-ball buyout offer, its about the Pacers actually believing that was an appropriate buyout offer for the $8.5 million they owe him.

    I'm okay with the Pacers waiving him - they've got to pay the $8.5 million any way, and allowing him to clear waivers and sign with someone else for the vet's minimum so he can prove to them that he can't play anymore.
    I with you on this. Frankly, I'd want to simply move on at this point. Ford's been a good soldier on his part for the last season and I'd simply just cut my loses.

    I don't blame Ford for holding out...if anything...I'd guess it's just a matter of finding the right # that's fair for both parties. $5 mil is just a low-ball offer to me...I'd assume that they just work their way up from that.

    Both sides can be rational about this. Assuming that we have the fall-back option of simply waiving Solo and his $1.5 mil contract ( in order to make space for Rolle ), the Pacers FO has the option to simply take it slow with Ford to see who "blinks". Ford can sit in a suit on the bench for all I care.
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    Default Re: Ford Rejects Buy-Out

    Off the top of my head, I believe the veteran minimum for him is roughly $1.25M. Subtract that from 8.5M and Ford would probably take the $7.25M and run. He can go sign with the Heat for the veteran minimum. We would be $6+M under the LT at that point.

    PS - Cutting Solo does nothing for us. We still pay him the $1.5M. He still counts against our cap. There is no discount, only the roster spot. I think we are basically trying to get TJ to pay for Rolle's two years in the buyout.

    The earlier TJ takes a buyout, the more money teams will still have at this point though. I think we have to let TJ shop himself to other teams at this point. Gives us a direction for where we can trade him or see what kind of deal his agent can negotiate before we buy him out. If some team wants to beat the veteran minimum and give him a 2+M per year deal then that just saves us that much in a buyout.
    Last edited by pacergod2; 08-12-2010 at 12:40 PM.

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ford Rejects Buy-Out

    I had said Ford was playing "chicken" yesterday, but that was before I had heard anything about a rumored amount. The $5mm number is silly, and I doubt that even the Pacers expected him to say anything other than, "No." My guess is that number is all that Simon would approve for the moment - or that they were just hoping they'd get lucky.

    As with Tinsley, they know what the worst case scenario is - dollar wise - and they'll see what they can do between now and the start of training camp to mitigate that. However, I'd bet that he's gone before training camp - by hook or by crook.

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    Default Re: Ford Rejects Buy-Out

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    I think we are basically trying to get TJ to pay for Rolle's two years in the buyout.

    The earlier TJ takes a buyout, the more money teams will still have at this point though. I think we have to let TJ shop himself to other teams at this point. Gives us a direction for where we can trade him or see what kind of deal his agent can negotiate before we buy him out. If some team wants to beat the veteran minimum and give him a 2+M per year deal then that just saves us that much in a buyout.

    Great point! I would never have considered that angle.

    OTOH, it could be said in order to sign Rolle it cost the Pacers 8.5 mil minus discount by buying out Ford for the roster space for Rolle. I'm of the view I'd rather buy out or cut Solo's 1.5 mil contract if he can't be traded, and keep trying to trade Ford. Ford "might" be able to bring back something of value in a trade. Even if nothing more than a player who could be more easier to trade.

    My understanding is that Ford's agent is contacting other teams about him. I'd rather trade him than buy him out, but I doubt he take more than a 15% discount off his salary.

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    Default Re: Ford Rejects Buy-Out

    He should look at what happened to Tinsley's career when he was benched for so long. Take a buy-out and play this season, or refuse, sit the bench, and next year sit the bench for another team. That is a long time to go without being in game shape for an veteran player.

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    Default Re: Ford Rejects Buy-Out

    TJ would be a fool to take this buyout. He's scheduled to make $8.5M this year. Despite the Collison acquisition, Ford is still likely to see at least some minutes.

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    Default Re: Ford Rejects Buy-Out

    As much as I want TJ gone, like you guys are saying, he's no dummy. 5 million is simply too low of an offer for a buyout on 8.5. I really think we need to find a way to up the offer or we will be stuck with him. I don't want Ford around when the season comes, it is just going to make things messy and I don't want to see him sitting on the bench either. I will say he handled it pretty well last year though. Maybe we can still package him in a deal for a PF, I hope!
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    Default Re: Ford Rejects Buy-Out

    I guess I have a different take than most of you.

    I think pacers should hold onto him. Depending on which veteran point guards get injured, Ford will have some trade value during the season and at the trade deadline with his expiring.

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