With the Pacers getting Collison, how good/bad will the Pacers be with the CURRENT team.
With the Pacers getting Collison, how good/bad will the Pacers be with the CURRENT team.
Passion, Pride, Playoffs, Pacers
Why...3 point, of course.
We were not a playoff team the last few years, but we were not terribly far away from contending for the 8 spot at times. This combination will be huge and I think we will be competing this year for the first time since the Golden State trade.
1) Huge improvement at PG both defensively and offensively. Collison will be the second best player on the team and a leader type personality. Both of these are huge.
2) No more Troy Murphy defense. The team will be forced to play either Granger or a more traditional 4 which will result in a more competitive team. This is the part that will make me happy. I would have been pleased if we had moved Troy for a bag of chips. The fact we got a potential all-star PG has me pinching myself.
3) Growth of young players like Hibbert, Rush and Price. If just one of those guys make a significant jump, it will be noticed.
4) New talent like George, Rolle and Lance. Lance might be ready for prime-time from the get-go. The athleticism and talent with that group might immediately have an impact.
5) Return of Foster, Hans and/or Dunleavy...hopefully all three. Hans returning healthy will be enormous. If healthy, he is very much under rated even on this board.
6) A healthy Granger. We really didn't have him for most of last year. Adding Collison should take some pressure off Danny. He will not need to lead the team alone.
Hard to say. This team AS IS has some serious issues.
Issue Number 1:
Rebounding. Say what you will, but we lost our best rebounder. If Foster comes back healthy and able to play 20mpg, that will lessen some of the rebounding issues but not erase them entirely.
Issue Number 2:
Interior Defense. Maybe this is addition by subtraction but I'm not sure that we're "good enough" there yet. I have hopes for Hibbert becoming a solid defender though. We'll see. Hansbrough also showed some ability defensively in his limited play time last year, though it's hard to say how much we can count on him this year.
Issue Number 3:
7 Wings on the roster. Just having this many wings isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's depth at a spot we've seen injuries. Heck, each wing we have seems to be a different player than the next.
If the goal is to win as many games as possible THIS YEAR who do you play?
I think we find a power forward of some kind before the start of the season. How good of one? I don't know. I hope he's at least a guy that can contribute at center as well and who rebounds at a high clip, while defensively fitting with Roy.
Here are our wings: Dunleavy, George, Granger, DJones, Rush, Stephenson, Posey
Granger may get some time at PF. Stephenson may backup Collison. DJones, Dun and/or Posey are probably on their way out. There will also be injuries as usual. If anything, I think the wing and PG (finally) is pretty solid.
The biggest hole is really PF. A lot is riding on whether Hans can make a major contribution....and whether Foster is healthy. We need at least one of those guys to come through this year or we will be short at the 4.
As for rebounding, Hans can rack them up. Foster does well too. If they are both available, I think we will actually improve that area. Defense will be addition by subtraction...and possibly addition with Hans returning healthy. Hans is a physical player who has shown an ability to defend just fine IMO. I can already see a dish from Collison to Hans for a backboard breaking mega slam....
I took this discussion to mean purely "with the roster as-is" and not having to do with us moving a player.
To really understand what we have in our wings, I'm going to seperate these guys by position, and slant toward another spot.....
Dunleavy: SF, I think he's purely an SF but we did start him next to Granger as a SG.
Granger: SF/PF, He matches up better defensively with the smaller fours better than any other spot on the floor. His perfect defensive matchup is probably against a clone.
Posey: SF/PF, he should be able to match up well with some of the smaller 4s, stretch 4s in particular, think Rashard Lewis. He'd probably lose that battle at this point in his career but it's possible we have enough offense at other spots to win the war.
George: SG/SF/PF, simply because he's a relative unknown, supposed to be an ace shooter and has some expansive defensive potential....he may be capable of playing any of the 3 "middle" spots.
Stephenson: SG/PG, Lance is a combo, plain and simple. He probably has better potential as a playmaking shooting guard that anything else. Despite the wows in summer league, he'll be raw.
Dahntay: SG, he can fill in some minutes at SF, but in my opinion he's not big enough/strong enough to guard most 3s.
Rush: SG/SF, simply our best defender on the wing. He's a very good spot shooter and may have the most to benefit with the acquiring of Collison.
So, probably 4 players that will get playing time at the 2 guard, plus Price getting some burn there.
Five players capable of eating up minutes at the SF.
Three players may get a shake at the 4.
Two of these players will probably sit on the bench in suits, whether they're injured or collecting DNPs. Maybe Price and George early, switching Price with Stephenson when Price is healthy, and then they'll move into play as the season progresses and injuries start to happen. Maybe Posey's simply finished as a player, or Dunleavy.
The players essentially assured playing time season-long: Granger, Rush, Dahntay (With the caveat that we have enough shooters available to keep JO'b happy...if that's ever possible).
The other players will fill in, people will get mad when Posey and Dunleavy play. Remember though, there can be a purpose to playing a Vet over a young guy. It's a learning process for the youth, and they can learn from seeing a vet that has "been there, done that" go out and do it.
I don't see many mega slams coming from Hansbrough, the occasional big one, sure....but it'll probably come in transition. The Collison side of things...
The issue with our defense is that you are depending on 2 players that are big question marks this year. Hans might be solid against some or even most PFs but remember, he's basically a rookie and will likely struggle. And he's likely not the solid help defender a guy like Hibbert will need. Foster will have a huge impact on the success of this team. We badly need his rebounding and defense. No way around it.
McRoberts defense....while better than Troy's, is still a question mark. He was lost in the team concept and wasn't great one on one. He has a decent tendancy for blocks though, and might be best as a help defender.
Rolle's simply unproven (and not on the team yet...breaking the rules of this thread!)....in every aspect. Solo's average at best.
This team still badly needs a complete defender at the 4/5 spot. Someone that can handle his man and knows how and when to help.
All of this is completely unrelated to Hibbert and his defensive abilities.
#2: Agreed. Addition by subtraction but there's still a hole to be filled.
#3: Yeah, I think the problem there is more about some guys getting unhappy because they aren't playing. That's a problem there was already there pre-trade.
#3 Your reasoning for 3 isn't really on point with what I'm thinking though. If we are going through this year with the players at wing under contract, who do you see getting the starting minutes, and the rotation minutes? I see it being a bit of a mess....with the older guys getting rotation spots until our 19 and 20 yr old wings transition to the NBA game. Is Dahntay the most likely malcontent, as he may be passed over for youth or Dunleavy and Posey?
Not really sure about who's going to be in the rotation. My bet is that Jones will be one of the guys fully out of it. Anyway, apparently they'll make further moves and I think it's fair to assume that logjam at the wing is one of their priorities. Once the picture gets more clear we'll have a better idea on the kind of wing rotation they may use.
Have to say I agree with a lot of this.
I don't think that Collison will be the second best player on the team, though, either now or in the future, but he'll make a position that was a weakness into a strength.
Brandon Rush: Bird said in the April press conference that this would be a "make or break" year for him. Rumors had it that he was offered with TJ in the Augustin deal to Charlotte; it certainly would fit, I think, for Larry Brown to be interested, and I understand Bird's ... can we call it an ultimatum? - but I love Brandon and hope that he can become a more effective offensive player. He played the most minutes because he played excellent man defense, but the Pacers have got to move the ball more on offense.
Best bet to make a significant jump is Hibbert. Last year was a big step forward as he figured out how to get himself positioned to be an effective defender and stay out of foul trouble. He also figured out how to get himself low-post touches in the flow of the offense, and improved his effectiveness from the left block; a guy who can post equally well from both sides of the lane is a big asset. Next step is becoming an average defensive rebounder and better finisher.
O'Brien obviously loves Hansbrough; he played him every minute he was allowed to by the medical staff (and a little bit more), and that's likely to continue if he can stay available.
"Defense doesn't break down on the help, it breaks down on the recovery." - Chuck Daly
"The first shot does not beat you." - Chuck Daly
"To play defense and not foul is an art that must be mastered if you are going to be successful." - Chuck Daly
Darren will lead this team to the playoffs like Brandon Jennings.
Much as I hated to see Troy go I think it's a great trade. The Pacers must think that Tyler is going to be fit to play. Now we need to get rid of TJ and sign Magnum. Hopefully there is one more trade in the works!
I think next year's team will by far be the best team we've had since we last made the playoffs in 06. I could see us winning about 45 games and getting either the 7th or 8th seed.
The first 5 seeds are pretty much a lock to be Miami, Boston, Orlando, Chicago and Atlanta in no particular order. So to finish better than a 7th seed, we'd have to finish with the best record of the remaining batch of teams competing for the last 3 spots. I don't know if we'll quite be that good, but I definitely think we'll be fighting for a 7 or 8.
But my current stance on this team? I can't measure it with where I think we'll finish this year.
Quite simply, I feel like this team has a future and a potential foundation for an impressive basketball team.
Holy Crap!!!!! I did not mean to vote the way I did considering I'm like the only Pacers fan who didn't know we aquired Collison and Posey when I voted on this poll. Everyday or so I log onto this site in hopes to see we traded Troy Murphy for a young studly point guard. This is exciting. I would vote 7-8 seed in the East.
Last edited by Noodle; 08-11-2010 at 10:38 PM.
I still can't believe this trade has happend and we have darren collison. I mean the guy averaged 18 and 9 when he started 37 games when cp3 was out with injury. The pacers have way more scoring ability then the hornets did last year so this should be quite a show this year.
Now we can also trade dunleavy and posey if we want at the deadline for picks or what have u. We can also start scouting all possible POWERforward we could go after next summer or possibly a trade this year. i really like that we got posey cause he gives up more trade value to find a pf.
In my opinion we are a threat to be a low seed in the playoffs and play heat, magic or celtics. Maybe if our D stiffens up this year we can give a team a scare in the playoffs but, in the end job will find a way to screw it up. Job better be gone after this year too cause the pacers will be a great situation for a top coach to walk into.
2012: Pacers return to glory
Paul George All Day
I remember in an article that talked about how donniw Walsh said he targeted Larry Brown as a coach for years but they weren't ready. Then when the time was ready, he brought in Larry Brown and made the Pacers contenders. I think its almost time to get that one coach .
I think Larry Bird proved today that he is indeed working his "3 year plan." Obviously, if the 3 year plan works out will strongly be determined this season via a trade for a "big time" player for expirings and fillers, or next summer by signing a "big time" free agent. If neither of those happens, then the Pacers will extend their position as a bubble team. I am confident in Bird though, and I absolutely think something will happen.
I recommend that everyone watch the news conference from today about the trade, Morway and Bird both are saying that they do not believe we will go into the season with the same roster we have today. I do think they will trade some wing(s) for a PF/C player. With that being said, if we can muster up a pretty decent PF before the season starts, I really think the Pacers can be a 5-6 seed in the playoffs. I think a legit starting PF added to this roster can put the Pacers behind only the Heat, Magic, and Celtics.
But, going into the season with our current roster I think we are definitely in the 7-8th seed position. And right now, I am completely fine with that!
Real tough to call. It all depends on what we do the rest of the summer. If we can add one more servicable young PF to the plan I can see us sneaking in that #6 spot. If we go in the season as we are I can see us competing for the 7-8 spots again.
I think with the move to get Collison we will make the playoffs this year, either the 7th or 8th seed. I said I would give Bird a chance on the three year plan, and today he solidified my faith in this team getting back on track. I think there will be more moves to come, especially if we want to keep Magnum. So my stance on the team is a happy and re-energized one. League Pass is a must this coming season!
Avatar photo credit: Bahram Mark Sobhani - AP
I think 7th/8th seed. If our young players had more experience I would put it higher.
I don't think Bird is done either. If he makes another move like he made today for a PF we move even higher.
How can you not big excited!