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Thread: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    I honestly thought that if we had murphy we would still contend for the 7-8 seed. But with Collison and Posey, I think this puts us over that hump to maybe a 6th seed if there are no injuries and our young guys do good.

  2. #52

    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    I think people are over-rating him on here.

    First and foremost, I think he's a significant upgrade on defense. That's where he'll have his biggest immediate impact.

    He's roughly a better version of TJ Ford, with much better shooting percentages. Low/mid-level vision, great speed, overdribbler, turnover prone. But I think he has some good intangibles..he appears to love the game and has the capacity to improve.

    He's not a very good fit at all under our current system. O'Brien will have to change that asap.

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  4. #53

    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    Darren Collison will be Marvin Gardens with three houses on it!




    Darren Collison will be the drum track on "When the Levee Breaks."




    Darren Collison will be that Loonie Tunes episode when Bugs Bunny pretends to be a conductor to get revenge on the opera singer who broke his banjo.




    And if there's a more ambiguous way to make the point, I'd like to know what it is!
    So creative, so random, so hilarious. Well done, Putty!

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    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    He's a good young PG with a bright future, he has a possible chance at being an all star in a few years. That's good enough for me.

    Now we have to become a TEAM, then we'll find out what we are lacking to be a contender. You can't really determine what we might need till we are actually in the playoffs and win a round or 2.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

  6. #55

    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    I think people are over-rating him on here.

    First and foremost, I think he's a significant upgrade on defense. That's where he'll have his biggest immediate impact.

    He's roughly a better version of TJ Ford, with much better shooting percentages. Low/mid-level vision, great speed, overdribbler, turnover prone. But I think he has some good intangibles..he appears to love the game and has the capacity to improve.

    He's not a very good fit at all under our current system. O'Brien will have to change that asap.
    That's my impression of Collison too. Which, isn't my choice in type of PG. But he's obviously talanted.

    Turning Murphy into Collison was an oustanding job by Larry. We have two young PGs, and we'd have to be severly unlucky for one of them not to work out.

    But as you said, I don't want Jimmy anywhere near him. Nor do I want Ford near him. Jimmy will be an enabler. Collison is very much a score first, ball dominant PG. Sometimes that can work out. And sometimes that can become obnoxious. In Jimmy's offense

    And I would like to see him without an offense built entirely around him, before I declare him the second best player on the team. (Oh hai, ma name iz Roy Hibbert)
    Last edited by Sookie; 08-11-2010 at 10:27 PM.

  7. #56

    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I'd take him over Beaubois, because I'm not sure Beaubois can ever run the point full time and he might be injury prone. I remember reading before he was drafted that he was a little frail, and he just broke something (can't remember what) this year.
    Honestly I've never heard about Beaubois being injury prone. He broke his foot, but it was a traumatic injury, a bone fracture, not the kind of thing that becomes recurrent.

    Anyway, even though a guy like Collison (or Holiday) may be a safer bet, I'd take what Beaubois elite athleticism may bring to the table. I see him more as a dynamic scoring guard then exactly a PG, but I think his prolific scoring + elite defense can easily make up for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    To some extent, sure , but it may not be so much having a purpose as it is the physical ability to actually get things done.
    Yeah, in his peak TJ Ford wasn't as purposeless in his game as he's being nwo. Physical ability + mentality + some loss of skills. Collison is more dynamic.

  8. #57

    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    Roddy B. is the only young guard I'd put ahead of Collison, defensively. I have dreams about his defense.

    Looking forward...let's say Collison pans out and is really good. I still think we need a different piece at guard to be contenders. We're not in the worst position, but we're going to have nightmares trying to cover the Wades/Rondos/Walls/Roses. Collison (imo) will get dominated by three of those four.

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    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    Thought that Rodrigue was more of a SG in a PGs body. I don't really consider him a PG....only that people wishes he was one.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  10. #59

    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Roddy B. is the only young guard I'd put ahead of Collison, defensively. I have dreams about his defense.

    Looking forward...let's say Collison pans out and is really good. I still think we need a different piece at guard to be contenders. We're not in the worst position, but we're going to have nightmares trying to cover the Wades/Rondos/Walls/Roses. Collison (imo) will get dominated by three of those four.
    I'm not sure about that. In general, bigger guards hate playing against little guard that are good defenders. Basically because they are pesky..

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    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    I see him as being good, possibly not Mark Jackson good, but a good reliable starter who can be counted on consistently. I really liked the Gary Payton comparison.

  12. #61
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    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    No, we need an allstar level point. I'm hoping we got that or as close as we could ever expect
    I think Lance will be the All-Star guard on our team. But teamed with Collison, it will be a heckuva a back court.
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    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    I think Collison will be a reliable starter. But for those expecting a top-5 (or even top-10) PG, I'm afraid you might be disappointed.

    I think Collison benefited greatly from running Chris Paul's plays. Think A. Griffin/ J. Bender, part 2.
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  14. #63

    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I think Lance will be the All-Star guard on our team. But teamed with Collison, it will be a heckuva a back court.
    That's a terrible combination. Collison and Lance. Too much alike in their game. You need to pair either Price or Rush with each of them.

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    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I think Collison will be a reliable starter. But for those expecting a top-5 (or even top-10) PG, I'm afraid you might be disappointed.

    I think Collison benefited greatly from running Chris Paul's plays. Think A. Griffin/ J. Bender, part 2.
    If he "benefited greatly" from running a specific set of plays, the reason we couldn't run similar ones is..........?

  16. #65

    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    If he "benefited greatly" from running a specific set of plays, the reason we couldn't run similar ones is..........?
    That would be... our dumb coach

  17. #66

    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    If he "benefited greatly" from running a specific set of plays, the reason we couldn't run similar ones is..........?
    Collison is not Chris Paul. Our entire offense shouldn't revolve around him...like NO's does. And by benefited, statistically benefited. The team really didn't benefit much.

  18. #67

    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    If he "benefited greatly" from running a specific set of plays, the reason we couldn't run similar ones is..........?
    What was their record with him as a starter?

    In my view, he didn't benefit from the plays, as from the sets individually considered, but he benefited from the most PG-centric offense in the league, even more than Cleveland (LeBron-centric in this case).

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    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    He's not a very good fit at all under our current system. O'Brien will have to change that asap.
    On the contrary, he's perfect. He can get to anywhere he wants with the ball, and he can make shots from anywhere, and he can make plays for teammates. Put him on the floor with Lance, Danny, Tyler, and Hibbert, and the Pacers will "live at the line."

    Creating shots has been a problem since Dunleavy went down and Jack Daniels left. That's about to change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I think Lance will be the All-Star guard on our team. But teamed with Collison, it will be a heckuva a back court.
    There you go, great complement those two. I totally agree. They'll both move the ball and make plays, and when they're teamed with Danny Granger he won't have to work so hard to get his openings; when Lance has the ball, Darren will get lots of open looks. We're talking about a very quick tempo with those two, which Jim O'Brien will love.
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  21. #70
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    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    I'm willing to eat my crow and sing the praises of JOB if he changes the offense to something resembling an offense and not some gimmicky crap that we have dealt with for far too long. I really hope beyond hope that Jimmy proves me wrong and he's not as bad as I think he is, we shall see. It looks like it will be a very VERY exciting season for us at the very least. Go Pacers!!

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    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    Actually, I almost like a Collison Price backcourt more than a Collison Stephenson one for this year. Price can move well without the ball and sets up nicely for a 3 when Collison passes out of penetration.

    Until Lance shows he can play without the ball in his hands, I think it'd be best limiting his time with a ball dominant point.

    Collison Price, sure, in very limited minutes
    Price Stephenson, seems to emphasize both player's attributes
    Collison Stephenson, ....we'll see

    EDIT: Though I want to mention....if Stephenson proves he can make a difference away from the ball and shows an ability to make plays OFF of what a point creates (Say Collison hits a cutting Stephenson, Stephenson is cut off and quickly lobs it to McRoberts for a jam) then it could work.
    Last edited by Ozwalt72; 08-12-2010 at 01:36 AM.

  23. #72

    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by O'Bird View Post
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    On the contrary, he's perfect. He can get to anywhere he wants with the ball, and he can make shots from anywhere, and he can make plays for teammates. Put him on the floor with Lance, Danny, Tyler, and Hibbert, and the Pacers will "live at the line."

    Creating shots has been a problem since Dunleavy went down and Jack Daniels left. That's about to change.
    :

    Perfect? He's a ball dominant guard: the worst trait any O'Brien player can have. Ball dominance has never worked in O'Brien's system; look at the list of casualties: Tinsley, Ford, Dahntay, Luther Head, Diogu, Stephen Graham, etc. etc. etc.

    Anyone who thinks Collison is going to work under O'Brien's current system is going to be sorely disappointed. It won't be a failure, but it certainly won't be a big success.
    Last edited by imawhat; 08-12-2010 at 01:45 AM.

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  25. #73
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    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Perfect? He's a ball dominant guard: the worst trait any O'Brien player can have. Ball dominance has never worked in O'Brien's system; look at the list of casualties: Tinsley, Ford, Dahntay, Luther Head, Diogu, Stephen Graham, etc. etc. etc.
    Anyone who thinks Collison is going to work under O'Brien's current system is going to be sorely disappointed. It won't be a failure, but it certainly won't be a big success.
    To be fair, most of those players suck.

    But yes, last year's offense probably wouldn't work very well with Collison.

    Remember in summer league there was something said about Stephenson being too unselfish, needs to look to score early....

    If O'brien takes the same approach to Collison, it may work.

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  27. #74
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    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    I still think we need a different piece at guard to be contenders. We're not in the worst position, but we're going to have nightmares trying to cover the Wades/Rondos/Walls/Roses. Collison (imo) will get dominated by three of those four.

    Lance will be able to handle the bigger guards IMO..


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    Default Re: Prediction time: How good will Collison be in two years

    DC2 might be in the class of Star pg in 2yrs. If he can average 20 n 10 like he showed he is acapble of last year and defend the best pgs. Then i think u got to put him up there with some of the best pg in the nba. I think he will click very well with our young core of guys.
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