Now, he know as much or more as the common Indiana-raised fan knows about basketball, so he's not a doofus either. I'm hoping there was hyperbole or green font when he called Marquis a good 3-point shooter.
Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you
God forbid he made an error. Read his book and you'll know that is extremely knowledgeable about the game.
I think Simmons gets a bad rap because he is funny. If he's funny, he can't be taken seriously, apparently.
Not to mention Wilt Chamberlain and Walt Bellamy joined the league soon after...
When Russell left college, he had as many titles as anyone ever before and the longest winning streak of all time.
He joined a pro team that had never even made the finals before and won 11 of 13 championships.
His team would not even return to the finals for 5 years after he retired.
If Bill's greatness was due to HoF teammates, why didn't any of them (and by any I'm including ALL) do squat without him? I think Russell making his teammates greater was his greatest strength.
Last edited by Grover; 08-11-2010 at 03:19 PM.
Was it Simmons? Wasn't it some tv analyst? I seem to remember of somebody saying that, I thought it was some guy on TV, a national TV commentator. Doug Collins, I think (a guy I liked as an analyst).When Boston acquired Quis he said that with Ray Allen and Daniels as the shooting guard rotation they would have two guys who could really "stretch the floor".
The footage I watched from those days it's very underwhelming. Lots of moves are cringe inducing, including from Wilt. One of his go-to moves was a kind of a lay-up from like 5 ft away from the basket, with his right arm fully extended in a stiff way. Very odd. I'm not a big fan of ranking players from such different eras all together.
I think Isaac is right, I actually remember hearing the "Daniels is a good outside shooter" line from multiple places. I think Simmons might have said it on a podcast once.
Plus, his footnotes are hilarious.
That is why you have to look at in one of two ways. You either have to think about what they would be like growing up in the same time as the current players with similar resources, etc. This way is very inaccurate because it is completely based on having an accurate imagination. Or you have to compare them to who the played against, their accomplishments, and their impact on the game. I think there is little argument that Russel, Wilt, Bird, Magic, and Jordan were the players who made the 5 biggest impacts on the game of basketball, although some will argue that Oscar should be included and I can't argue against them. As well all 5 of them pretty much dominated and were considered the best for their time.
So it just comes to figuring out the mostly minor differences, and I'm sure depending on many factors different people's biases will cause everyone to come to a different conclusion.
To all the people doubting Bill Simmons.. you should really have a read of his book if you can find it a local library. I think you would be stunned at the amount of work he put into the book and how little Boston bias comes through it. I am not familiar with the Marquis Daniels comments, but having read his book I can say that everything he spoke on was well researched and he certainly knows what he is talking about.
Certianly basketball skills have evolved, but along with them, we as athletes have evolved. They were just the next step in the evolution of the game, but the game caught up with them, and then moved past them. They wouldn't be considered athletic by today's standards.
Gervin used the finger roll to score, but if someone tried what he did today, the ball would be out at halfcourt after it bounced off the backboard from someone beating it.
Oscar is definately in my top 3, which isn't saying much mind you, but he just wouldn't translate into days game. The game has just evolved so much. I'm not trying to discredit anything he, or the other all-time greats, did but they wouldn't be able to compete today.
I know I'm gonna catch flack for it, but I honestly don't think he belong up there on the tip-top echelon of Greatest NBA Players. I mean, to me, the greatest players should be guys that have the stats, hardware, and stories of great last-second shots or battles of adversity in an NBA Finals.
And it's with that last part why I don't consider him on the Jordan-level. The guy was Kevin Garnett in the clutch. I mean, as Simmons says in his book, "Here's another way to look at it: nobody has any clutch stories of Wilt Chamberlain. If they existed, I'd pass them along."
Not only that, but when fellow competitors says things like:
"Wilt was too consumed with record: being the first to lead the league in assists, or to set a record for field goal percentage. He's accomplish one goal, then go to another. Russell only asked one question: 'What can I do to make us win?' "..........Jerry Lucas
"I'll say what most players feel, which is that Wilt is a loser... He is terrible in big games. He knows he is going to lose and be blamed for the loss, so he dreads it, and you can see it in his eyes; and anyone who has ever played with him will agree with me, regardless of whether they would admit publicly. When it comes down to the closing minutes of a tough game, an important game, he doesn't want the ball, he doesn't want any part of the pressure. It is at these times that greatness is determined, and Wilt doesn't have it. There is no way you can compare him to a pro like a Bill Russell or a Jerry West... these are clutch competitors."............Rick Barry
....then that's all I really need to know. I mean, hell, those dudes played against him and Russell. Since I wasn't around back then, I trust what they think more than any journalist or some dude on a message board.
"Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"