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Thread: MJ not the GOAT

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    Default MJ not the GOAT

    I know people will think I'm crazy, but MJ is always being call the Greatest of all time and I just wonder if anybody else thinks its not that clear cut. I'm not going to submit a bunch of stats to prove or disprove anything but I don't think anybody is that much better than anyone else. My list. throw them all in a hat and pick one.

    Bill Russell
    Wilt
    Oscar
    Larry
    Magic
    MJ
    Jerry West
    Shaq could have been but was just to lazy.
    Bill Walton, derailed by injuries.

    What do you think.
    Good is the enemy of Great


    We're changing the identity of our basketball team -- dramatically. We're a power post team -- a blood-and-guts, old-school, smash-mouth team that plays with size, strength, speed and athleticism. We attack the basket. . . . This is the new identity of our team. It was a great effort. I'm very proud of our guys."
    -- Frank Vogel.

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    Shooting for the Moon Day-V's Avatar
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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    Detlef Schrempf.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    I can't accept that Shaq is on that list. He may have been dominate, but I highly doubt that he would have been half as dominate if the refs didn't allow him to bulldoze his way to the basket. He was all muscle, with little skill.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    Wilt should not be on this list, either.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I can't accept that Shaq is on that list. He may have been dominate, but I highly doubt that he would have been half as dominate if the refs didn't allow him to bulldoze his way to the basket. He was all muscle, with little skill.
    I tend to agree with you on this, however it is what it is and that's the way they let him play. I think the main point is if he had kept in shape and worked harder he could have been in the conversation.
    Good is the enemy of Great


    We're changing the identity of our basketball team -- dramatically. We're a power post team -- a blood-and-guts, old-school, smash-mouth team that plays with size, strength, speed and athleticism. We attack the basket. . . . This is the new identity of our team. It was a great effort. I'm very proud of our guys."
    -- Frank Vogel.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    Jordan is the GOAT. Not just because of his physical talents, but more because of his mental makeup and absolute determination to not lose. I've never seen anything like it before, and probably never will again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I can't accept that Shaq is on that list. He may have been dominate, but I highly doubt that he would have been half as dominate if the refs didn't allow him to bulldoze his way to the basket. He was all muscle, with little skill.
    This, is just simply not true. I'm going to take a guess that your age limited you to seeing the older Shaq. Just a guess, but what's said is only true of the over the hill Shaq. In his younger days he killed people with spin moves, drop steps and occasionally you could catch him running the break even though it looked funny as hell.

    Yes, Shaq always had the ability to bull people over, but that wasn't all he was in anyway at all. Secondly, his size worked against him. People would foul the hell out of him, but because he was so big it didn't effect him. No physical reaction to the foul would equal the ref making no call. It worked both ways.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    [QUOTE=xBulletproof;1048031]Jordan is the GOAT. Not just because of his physical talents, but more because of his mental makeup and absolute determination to not lose. I've never seen anything like it before, and probably never will again.

    People always say things like that about winners. They refused to lose yet in almost all cases they lost more than they won. Example how many years did Jordon play and how many years did he win. So that arguement could best be made for Bill Russell, 11 championships. Just Sayin
    Good is the enemy of Great


    We're changing the identity of our basketball team -- dramatically. We're a power post team -- a blood-and-guts, old-school, smash-mouth team that plays with size, strength, speed and athleticism. We attack the basket. . . . This is the new identity of our team. It was a great effort. I'm very proud of our guys."
    -- Frank Vogel.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    Quote Originally Posted by colts19 View Post
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    People always say things like that about winners. They refused to lose yet in almost all cases they lost more than they won. Example how many years did Jordon play and how many years did he win. So that arguement could best be made for Bill Russell, 11 championships. Just Sayin
    To start, Bill Russell played with 7 (SEVEN) Hall of Fame players on his team in 1962, and that's not counting himself. The NBA just simply wasn't the same competitive league that it is today. When Bill Russell started his career in the NBA, there were EIGHT teams. A very important fact that always gets ignored. Pretty hard to lose in a league of 8 teams when you've got a couple future Hall of Famers coming off the bench.

    It was much more like a YMCA rec league back in those days, than the NBA we know today.
    Last edited by xBulletproof; 08-10-2010 at 06:57 PM.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Jordan is the GOAT. Not just because of his physical talents, but more because of his mental makeup and absolute determination to not lose. I've never seen anything like it before, and probably never will again.



    This, is just simply not true. I'm going to take a guess that your age limited you to seeing the older Shaq. Just a guess, but what's said is only true of the over the hill Shaq. In his younger days he killed people with spin moves, drop steps and occasionally you could catch him running the break even though it looked funny as hell.

    Yes, Shaq always had the ability to bull people over, but that wasn't all he was in anyway at all. Secondly, his size worked against him. People would foul the hell out of him, but because he was so big it didn't effect him. No physical reaction to the foul would equal the ref making no call. It worked both ways.
    No, I remember him when he played in Orlando, but the large majority of his time in the league, especially the time frame in which he won championships and went from an extremely good C to the most dominate in the league, he didn't play with skill like he did in his early years.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    To start, Bill Russell played with 7 (SEVEN) Hall of Fame players on his team in 1962, and that's not counting himself. The NBA just simply wasn't the same competitive league that it is today. When Bill Russell started his career in the NBA, there were EIGHT teams. A very important fact that always gets ignored. Pretty hard to lose in a league of 8 teams when you've got a couple future Hall of Famers coming off the bench.

    It was much more like a YMCA rec league back in those days, than the NBA we know today.
    Your right in a lot of what your saying, but it is what it is. Those 7 hall of famers may not have been HOF, if not for bill russell.
    Good is the enemy of Great


    We're changing the identity of our basketball team -- dramatically. We're a power post team -- a blood-and-guts, old-school, smash-mouth team that plays with size, strength, speed and athleticism. We attack the basket. . . . This is the new identity of our team. It was a great effort. I'm very proud of our guys."
    -- Frank Vogel.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    To start, Bill Russell played with 7 (SEVEN) Hall of Fame players on his team in 1962, and that's not counting himself. The NBA just simply wasn't the same competitive league that it is today. When Bill Russell started his career in the NBA, there were EIGHT teams. A very important fact that always gets ignored. Pretty hard to lose in a league of 8 teams when you've got a couple future Hall of Famers coming off the bench.

    It was much more like a YMCA rec league back in those days, than the NBA we know today.
    At the same time those teams would have also played against better teams. If you narrowed the current NBA down to 8 teams you might have a team with 7 future Hall of Famers, but at the same time the team they are playing against will have similar talent. If anything it would have been tougher because the competition was tougher.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    I don't think MJ is the GOAT either the argument is so subjective there's so many factors involved.


    But if I did have to pick the GOAT I'd probably pick Kareem.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    I'm shocked and appalled there has been no love in this thread for Stanko.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    No, I remember him when he played in Orlando, but the large majority of his time in the league, especially the time frame in which he won championships and went from an extremely good C to the most dominate in the league, he didn't play with skill like he did in his early years.
    Sometimes I think this board exists just to torture Anthem.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    Wilt should not be on this list, either.
    LOL I really hope you forgot to add the sarcasm green ..

    Cause if not , then you are nuttier than a squirrel turd ..





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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    How about Jarrett Jack?

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    I'd place MJ at #1 followed by Magic, Bird, Kareem, and Wilt.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    I believe the triple double machine, Oscar Robertson, should be included in this conversation somewhere.

    That said, I still think Jordan or Wilt have to be the top two on the list. Wilt changed the league with his power and stature, while Jordan changed the intensity of the game at its most elite level.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    Chuck Person is the GOAT, for sure.

    Someone had to say it. And for once, it's not going to be Jay.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    I'm shocked and appalled there has been no love in this thread for Stanko.
    or Rasho.


    smh..........

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    Jordan was just such a smart player. Add on top of that, he was such a tireless worker. Add to that his super-athleticism under super-control. His will and determination were unmatched. Jordan had no weaknesses in the clutch. Whatever you needed to win the game, he'd be the one doing it, and your heart would stop until the ball fell through, or bounced away. Not to forget how good a defender he was. MJ could beat you in every facet of the game. He is undoubtedly the best player to ever play the game.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    Wilt > Big O > MJ
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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    Jordan is probably the best wing player of all time, but it's hard to compare the importance of wing players to bigs and point guards because the positions aren't played in the same manner.
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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    Jordan changed the game. In a league of amazing players (Thomas, Bird, Magic, Wilkins, Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Mutumbo, Miller, Drexler, Barkely, Stockton, Malone, King, Kemp, Price, McHale, Worthy, Dumars, Moses Malone, AI, Duncan, Garnett, etc.) he out shined them all. You simply had to be there seeing the game when he played. I hated it then, but looking back he simply was the Greatest.

    I found this today.

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    Default Re: MJ not the GOAT

    Oscar needs a lot more love. Kobe needs to be mentioned. Clearly the best player in the current NBA. Say all you want about Gasol, but Kobe is the best player in the league. Kevin Durant shows the most promise for a current young player to take over the torch. Jerry West and Pistol Pete could be older players who should get mentioned. I have to throw out Tim Duncan and Karl Malone for their unbelievable contributions to the game. Then looking at centers Kareem and Olajuwan come to mind. Olojuwan in his absolute prime was as dominant a player that I can remember, besides Jordan. Kobe turns it on with a special fervor and determination that Jordan had. If his team needed something, he did however he chose.

    Don't even think about Lebron. He is not a good basketball player, just an amazing athlete. The same reasons many of you are discrediting Wilt and Shaq. Lebron is only a top five to ten player in the current NBA landscape.

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