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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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NBA lockout question

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  • NBA lockout question

    if players are under contract and the lockout does occur in the NBA, do they still get paid regardless?

    im wondering since the pacers have 40 million in expiring salary maybe its best to leave the roster as is, let the contracts expire and if there is a lockout than the pacers avoid having to pay any additional salary. seems like a good position to be in if a lockout does occur.

    anyone know how that works for nba players under contract next season, are they paid regardless if a lockout does occur?

  • #2
    Re: NBA lockout question

    No. The players do not get paid.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: NBA lockout question

      Originally posted by count55 View Post
      No. The players do not get paid.
      thanks for the clarification. i was thinking this might be some of the reason for lack of player movement on the pacers behalf.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: NBA lockout question

        I think it's why paid more now, when perhaps you can get the same player for less later.

        Ha I'm sure players would be just fine with a lockout if they're still getting paid!

        That's a benefit of a lockout, is that no one is really making money, aside from big time players w/ endorsements and stuff

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: NBA lockout question

          It's like any union where if the workers go on strike then the company doesn't pay. Where I work at now we are trying to work on an agreement between the company and our union, but right now it's looking like a strike's coming.

          "I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: NBA lockout question

            They may not get paid IN FULL from whatever their existing contracts are, but I suspect that both sides will expect that a portion (another negotiation point between the sides which is likely to be utilized just before they reach agreement) of whatever contracts are in force during the lockout will be paid retroactively on some kind of prorated basis.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: NBA lockout question

              Originally posted by Brad8888 View Post
              They may not get paid IN FULL from whatever their existing contracts are, but I suspect that both sides will expect that a portion (another negotiation point between the sides which is likely to be utilized just before they reach agreement) of whatever contracts are in force during the lockout will be paid retroactively on some kind of prorated basis.

              A paid work stoppage, from an unsettled new contract, by ownership isn't going to happen. It takes any future advantage of a lockout from ownership. Other than the big stars, most players live from paycheck to paycheck which is a positive for ownership in a lockout. The longer the lockout the more pressure on the union from their members to settle. They have bills that need paid same as everyone else, and creditors who want to be paid. I just don't see giving back to the players salary that will have to come directly out of ownerships pocket, b/c they rec'd no revenue from games played. I'm sure the players union would love this to happen, but that's not a feasible option from ownership. I can't ever remember a strike/lockout in any business where the union members got part of their salary back during the period of non-work.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: NBA lockout question

                Considering the owners want massive cuts of existing contracts across the board, a la the salary rollback the NHL did, I don't see the players getting any money for time off.
                Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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                • #9
                  Re: NBA lockout question

                  Originally posted by Justin Tyme View Post
                  A paid work stoppage, from an unsettled new contract, by ownership isn't going to happen. It takes any future advantage of a lockout from ownership. Other than the big stars, most players live from paycheck to paycheck which is a positive for ownership in a lockout. The longer the lockout the more pressure on the union from their members to settle. They have bills that need paid same as everyone else, and creditors who want to be paid. I just don't see giving back to the players salary that will have to come directly out of ownerships pocket, b/c they rec'd no revenue from games played. I'm sure the players union would love this to happen, but that's not a feasible option from ownership. I can't ever remember a strike/lockout in any business where the union members got part of their salary back during the period of non-work.
                  I stand corrected.

                  Here is an article regarding this issue from the last lockout

                  http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/sp...nal/index.html


                  FindLaw Sports Law Resources


                  You Make the Call... is a publication of the National Sports Law Institute of Marquette University Law School.

                  Spring 1999
                  Volume 1, Issue 4
                  National Basketball Association Arbitration
                  Major League Basebal Umpires Arbitration
                  Oakland Raiders v. National Football League
                  Davis v. Baylor University
                  & Brentwood Academy v. Tennessee Secondary Schools Athletic Association



                  In The Matter of National Basketball Players Association on Behalf of Various Players and National Basketball Association on Behalf of All Its Teams, OPINION & AWARD (October 19, 1998).

                  NATIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYERS ASSOCIATION GRIEVANCE DENIED, PLAYER'S DO NOT NEED TO BE PAID DURING A LAWFUL LOCKOUT.

                  On October 19, 1998, Grievance Arbitrator John D. Feerick declared that the National Basketball Association (NBA) is not obligated to make salary payments during a lawful lockout.

                  On June 30, 1998, the NBA terminated its Collective Bargaining Agreement with the National Basketballs Players Association (NBPA). On July 1, 1998, the NBA began a lockout during which it refused to pay players any salaries that would become due for the 1998-99 basketball season. In anticipation of this action, on June 30, 1998, the NBPA filed a grievance claiming that the NBA breached the contracts of more than 200 players whose contracts were fully guaranteed for the 1998-99 season.

                  The NBPA sought to commence an arbitration with the NBA to resolve the status of whether players with guaranteed contracts should be paid during a lockout. However, the NBA would not consent to the use of an arbitrator. The NBA contended that since the Collective Bargaining Agreement had been terminated the dispute was not arbitrable. Further, the NBA argued that even if it was arbitrable, Feerick did not have jurisdiction over the matter because he was only authorized to serve for the duration of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

                  On August 4, 1998, Feerick rendered a decision stating that he had jurisdiction and that the dispute was arbitrable. Feerick's decision was based on the fact that the Collective Bargaining Agreement and the Uniform Player Contract expressed that any dispute should be resolved by a Grievance Arbitrator. In addition, the NBPA grievance was filed prior to the termination of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, which was during Feerick's term as Grievance Arbitrator.

                  Next, Feerick addressed the issue of whether the players were entitled to be paid during the lockout. In coming to a resolution, Feerick took into consideration the parties' Collective Bargaining Agreement, individual player contracts, bargaining history, past practice, and principles and policies of federal labor law.

                  Under federal labor law, unions and employers may utilize certain economic weapons to support their bargaining positions. The right to lockout employees, along with the right to strike, is well established and firmly grounded in federal substantive labor law. Case law reveals that during a lawful lockout employers can withhold the wages or salaries of employees. As with many economic self-help rights, a lockout may be waived by agreement of the parties. However, the NBPA did not satisfy the clear and unmistakable waiver standard established by the National Labor Relations Board with respect to limitations on economic self-help. As a result, in interpreting the Collective Bargaining Agreement, Feerick concluded that the NBA did not waive its right to an effective lockout.

                  Feerick then found that the Uniform Player Contracts were controlled by, dependent upon, and closely intertwined with the Collective Bargaining Agreement. The language of the Collective Bargaining Agreement clearly states that the Uniform Player Contracts shall be governed by the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Feerick also stated that the Collective Bargaining Agreement superseded the Player Contract. Therefore, after the Collective Bargaining Agreement was terminated the salary provisions of the Uniform Player Contracts are no longer in effect.

                  During the course of the collective bargaining history, there have been threats of strikes and lockouts, with an actual lockout occurring in 1995. Throughout the bargaining history, the NBPA has never claimed that players have a right to be paid during the lockout. If the NBPA believed that the NBA had a right to withhold salary payments during the lockout in 1995, any intent to change that practice should have been included in the current Collective Bargaining Agreement.

                  Therefore, since Feerick was the designated Grievance Arbitrator outlined within the Collective Bargaining Agreement and the Uniform Player Contracts, he had jurisdiction to hear the dispute between the NBA and the NBPA. In the end, upon consideration of the law, the interpretation of the collective bargaining agreement, and the testimony of both parties, Feerick concluded that the salary provisions of the player contracts were not effective during a lawful lockout following the expiration of the collective bargaining agreement.

                  WEBFIND at http://www.adr.org/opinion.html

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