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Thread: Lance is not a pg

  1. #26
    Well lubricated Skaut_Ech's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    The thread starter brings up an interesting player, George McCloud. I remember the hype.
    I am curious what people remember as to why George was not an effective point.
    My biggest memory was two fold. His handles were weak and thus he had problems bringing the ball up court. I don' remember his court vision being great.

    Lance may also have some problems bringing the ball up against pressure but Lance is
    much stronger than George and has better handles with the ball. He is slowish however.
    On the fast break is where I see Lance at his best.
    (Man, the off-season really sets up the makings of a tempest in a teapot. I can't believe how strong some of the opinions are about LS possibly playing PG. We need something else going on with this team.)

    Owl, I remember the same thing about George. Thing is, back then, EVERYONE was taking their 2 guards and trying to make them a PG because of Magic's effectiveness. (I think I remember the Hawks even trying to shoehorn Steve Smith into a PG role) A lot of teams, us included, were trying to fit a square peg in the proverbial round hole. I don't think this is the case.

    Yes, we may be doing it out of necessity, but I see more of the raw tools to be a PG out of Lance then I ever did George.
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  2. #27
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers2012 View Post
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    already judging a guy who hasn't played a single nba game. summer league doesn't count
    Less than a week ago...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers2012 View Post
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    Rolle I think is a lock to be a the least a solid starter in his 3rd season. I think Rolle could be a allstar in 4 or 5yrs.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

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  4. #28
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by crunk-juice View Post
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    maybe we should watch him play in an actual game before we label him this or that?

    it's offseason, we have to have something to discuss.

    Besides that, I'm seeing a lot of "it's ok to play next season with Lance as the backup pg" and from the lack of quickness that I observed, that could be a real spectacle.

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by KingGeorge24 View Post
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    Okay...? I like to at least hope he can be one. I get little encouragement from the Pacers in the regular season. At least spare me the negativity that is maybe true. Give him a chance.

    -1 for pessimism
    -1 for lack of reality.

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    Because Earl Watson was a crack shot from distance.
    Earl would at least draw iron............................................

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech View Post
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    Owl, I remember the same thing about George. Thing is, back then, EVERYONE was taking their 2 guards and trying to make them a PG because of Magic's effectiveness. (I think I remember the Hawks even trying to shoehorn Steve Smith into a PG role) A lot of teams, us included, were trying to fit a square peg in the proverbial round hole. I don't think this is the case.
    Yep, and it didn't help that George was an introvert. There were rumors he may have had depression issues as well. Just a bad experiement because the guy could shoot the ball and should have been Reggie's backup.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  8. #32

    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech View Post
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    (Man, the off-season really sets up the makings of a tempest in a teapot. I can't believe how strong some of the opinions are about LS possibly playing PG. We need something else going on with this team.)

    Owl, I remember the same thing about George. Thing is, back then, EVERYONE was taking their 2 guards and trying to make them a PG because of Magic's effectiveness. (I think I remember the Hawks even trying to shoehorn Steve Smith into a PG role) A lot of teams, us included, were trying to fit a square peg in the proverbial round hole. I don't think this is the case.

    Yes, we may be doing it out of necessity, but I see more of the raw tools to be a PG out of Lance then I ever did George.
    QFT. The NBA is as "me too" as any other sports league, and Magic Johnson made everyone look for the next tall point guard superstar.

    George was derailed from the Pacers because of injuries. His career started reeeaaal slow, partially with the injury thing, partly... whatever. His hyped shooting ability didn't even show up. After 4 years, we moved him on.

    That didn't really have anything to do with the point guard thing. As I recall, the Pacers gave up on that rather quickly. Not having seen much of George at point, I can't really say exactly what he lacked. His ball handling was okay. The basic skill that separates PG's from pretenders is understanding the offense and initiating it correctly. It's not a cookbook, if a guy is overplaying a passing lane, you have to understand the counters. The other aspect is speed, pressuring the defense in transition so that someone gets open -- and you recognize who and when -- and you make that play.

    And I share the sentiments about point guard in our current offense. We set up very quickly on picks and the PG is not asked to analyze any motion. You still need PG skills, but you don't need a Mark Jackson type.

    Obviously, you have to guard quick guys respectably. The Lakers cheated with Magic by swapping D with their other guard.

    George was a pretty good defender, but I don't think he was quick enough to take on opposing PG's very often.

    The funny think about McCloud is that he's usually referenced as a bust, not just around here, but he ended up with a 14 year NBA career as a journeyman, and had a couple nice years for Dallas. Not the stud you'd be hoping for with the #7 pick, but still...

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Hey wait a minute..... in the Al Harrington thread didn't you accuse us (me) of being too negative?


    LOL, Yes, But that is about your perception about the team and our whole season. THIS is a discussion point, in response to a lot of "lets play next year with Lance as pg, at least backup".

    Anyway......

    God help me but I'm about to try and justify some of O'Briens thinking using some form of logic.

    Yes Jim O'Brien likes the three point shot, that can not even be disputed by either side of the Jim fence.

    However why he likes the three is not always because of the ability to hit the three, it is to draw away bigger defenders in the paint so that wings and guards can penetrate to the basket. Thus why he is always so fascinated with having a power forward who can go out and spread the floor.

    Lance does not have to be a traditional point guard in Jim's system. In fact Jim's system does not call for a traditional point guard at all and really does not encourage the p.g. to do anything in the half court setting that you would normally see from a Darren Williams, Jason Kidd, Mark Jackson, etc.

    They have to know how to play off of the ball.

    If Lance can learn to bring the ball up on the break and if he can learn to move well without the ball then in truth there is no reason why in Jim O'Briens system he can't perform and in a few years wouldn't actually excel in the role of slashing point guard.

    There you go, and that I would agree with fully. There is definitely potential there. Just not going to happen THIS year.

    Now understand I am not saying that he will be able to hang with the Rondo's or other good defensive point guards of the world, I'm just trying to say that using Jim's system I think he can be the p.g.

    And bringing the ball up court against the Rondo's of the world is what I'm mostly talking about. Defending them too.

    Ok back to bashing O'Brien as this makes me feel dirty.
    I bought a barrel of GoJo for degreasing after all the OB bashing here.

    edit: bleepin formatting.......... i did every comment the same way.

  10. #34
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I would add, too, that there's a big difference between not really being a point guard, while being able to play at that position effectively, and being incapable of playing the position.

    Who cares if Lance isn't what anyone considers to be a stereotypical PG if, at the end of the day, you can put him at the 1 and he can make it work.

    We need a lot of help at the 1, and if Lance can succeed there, even if he's "supposed to be" a 2-guard, so be it.
    I'm okay with this. But let's first get him up to being a competent NBA-caliber SG. He's a young second-round pick. The large majority of those don't survive training camp or crack a team's regular season rotation for a while. He's got upside, I get that. I'll be patient with him - moreso than I'll be patient with all the premature Lance-love based on summer league. And we've got a coach that has been reluctant to play NBA-ready rookies. If Lance is a solution (full time or part time) at PG it probably won't happen until the 2012-13 season.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  11. #35
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech View Post
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    Owl, I remember the same thing about George. Thing is, back then, EVERYONE was taking their 2 guards and trying to make them a PG because of Magic's effectiveness. (I think I remember the Hawks even trying to shoehorn Steve Smith into a PG role) A lot of teams, us included, were trying to fit a square peg in the proverbial round hole. I don't think this is the case.
    This is why you should post more often.

    My memories of McCloud:

    a) He sprained his ankle during the legendary (in my mind, at least) 1991 playoffs while TALKING ON THE PHONE! Yeesh.

    b) He was injured quite a bit.

    c) Both of his parents passed away while he was here. I'm guessing that the injuries and family situations left him in a funk if not outright depressed. I know I would be.

    d) His handles were bad and his passing was lousy. I've got pretty good court vision, too. But it doesn't make me an NBA-caliber PG.

    e) He was a great shooter in college, but we already had Rifleman and Reggie on the wings so we didn't have much playing time for another shooter. Rather than admit we wasted a pick by drafting a guy that had the same skill as our two best players, we tried to move him to a position that ultimately exploited his weaknesses. Note that when he returned to the NBA a couple of seasons later he was simply a shooter and not a ballhandler.

    f) Donnie commented a number of times that the one thing that disappointed him in McCloud was just how poorly he shot the ball during his time with the Pacers. I believe he said (paraphraising), we believed he could shoot, and were trying to find a way to get him on the court. But when his shot left him, and he never really developed PG skills, there wasn't any place for him in the lineup.

    g) We already had a big PG with Fleming, who was 6'5". And ultimately, we went smaller with Micheal Williams when everybody got away from trying to find the "next" Magic.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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  13. #36
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by MLB007 View Post
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    [COLOR="Blue"]

    edit: bleepin formatting.......... i did every comment the same way.
    I had the same thing happen a couple weeks ago. I tried about 3 times and then gave up.

  14. #37
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Without even getting into basketball or comparative points in telling why Lance will be just fine as a PG in this system...

    let me just say...

    If Troy Murphy can be what the coach sees as an ideal vision of the PF in this system, I have little worries about Lance succeeding as a PG in this system...at least in the eyes of the coach.

    Now, on to a few basketball points.

    What type of PG is the ideal PG to pair with Brandon Rush? What type of PG is the ideal PG to pair with Danny Granger? Likely the same answer for both. Brandon's focus is on playing defense and stretching the defense. His preference and forte at this point in his career on the offensive end is to be the guy on the receiving end of the drive and kick, rather than the one doing the driving in the drive and kick. Much like Bruce Bowen played best with a PG like Parker whose first instinct on plays that didn't run through Duncan was to drive the ball to the rim, look to score, and if the defense collapsed, kick it out to players like Bowen or Manu who would then swing the ball or reverse the ball to the open man...I believe Lance will likely fill that same role, but with the added bonus of being able to post up himself and create mismatches. Danny's forte is catching the ball and shooting. We all want him to attack the rim, but it's not his forte. He's at his best when a great PG can break down the defense and find him moving off of the ball for a catch and release.

    With Earl, Jack and even T.J. this has been issue. Earl and Jack weren't the greatest of pentrators and while T.J. can penetrate, he rarely has his vision set on anything other than the rim once he starts a move to break down the defender.

    Lance has far better court vision and a better ability to break down the defense and find an open man than any PG we've had on the roster for quite some time.

    Does he have some things he needs to work on? Undoubtedly. He will absolutely have to stop the "jump in the air and look for someone open", routine, and he'll have to learn when the time is best to attack and when the time is best to move to plan B for that possession. Inexperienced PGs often think that it's all on them to make things happen, and in the summer league, you saw that from Lance. Where Lance will be the most valuable as a PG is when option #1 and option #2 are covered, and when he catches the ball at the arc with 10 seconds left on the shot clock, he'll actually be able to make something happen. In the past, Earl, T.J. or any other PG we had couldn't make something happen and we ended up with some sort of ridiculous three point attempt from someone.

    With Lance in the game, your bail out situation on a halfcourt possession is to give him the ball and let him create, rather than throwing the ball to someone and hoping they can nail a contested, off balance three point attempt.

    And for some reason, there were a great many times when rather than the ball landing in the hands of a wing with 8 left on the clock, it seemed to land in the hands of our PG last year.

    People have pointed out before, generally when you have a 6'5 PG, he has trouble getting around or keeping up with the smaller PGs. In Lance's case, many of us have been watching closely, and it's been the other way around.

    Jim has wanted a big PG ever since he found out who Tyreke Evans was. I think this is a big reason why Lance was picked by the Pacers. I don't have a link, but this fact was documented somewhere before the 2009 draft and led to all of the chat about the Pacers trying to trade up to draft Tyreke.

    Is he the ideal solution at PG? Is he the ideal solution at PG for this system? Those are two questions with two likely different answers. Personally for this year though, I see no harm in giving him a shot at it...in fact, I would almost prefer that option over bringing back Earl or spending $ on anyone not named Chris Paul.

    People can say it was just summer league and lower quality players were matched up with him. But, on the flipside, he did a serviceable job at PG in summer league with raw, inexperienced wing players who barely knew the system. If you put him on the court with wings like Danny and Brandon who not only know the system but know where to be to make life easier for the PG, you have a pull in both ways.

    Just my opinion.

    A final point, just in line with much of the chat on this board as of late...

    I'm not as sold on Collison as a long term solution as many on here seem to be. My main reason is that I believe there are players in the NBA that you can scout and study and easily stop or control simply from doing that...and I believe that there are the players that you can know every single thing about, know every move and every tendency and still struggle to stop. I see Collison as the first type and Lance with the capability to be more of the second type. Having that type of player, to me, is worth the chance for a year like the upcoming year. It's likely a pre-lockout year and we'll have several guys overachieving outside of the PG position for their next contract. To me, it's worth a look for 20-30 games.
    Last edited by jcouts; 07-15-2010 at 10:59 AM.
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  16. #38

    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Hey wait a minute..... in the Al Harrington thread didn't you accuse us (me) of being too negative?

    Anyway......

    God help me but I'm about to try and justify some of O'Briens thinking using some form of logic.

    Yes Jim O'Brien likes the three point shot, that can not even be disputed by either side of the Jim fence.

    However why he likes the three is not always because of the ability to hit the three, it is to draw away bigger defenders in the paint so that wings and guards can penetrate to the basket. Thus why he is always so fascinated with having a power forward who can go out and spread the floor.

    Lance does not have to be a traditional point guard in Jim's system. In fact Jim's system does not call for a traditional point guard at all and really does not encourage the p.g. to do anything in the half court setting that you would normally see from a Darren Williams, Jason Kidd, Mark Jackson, etc.

    They have to know how to play off of the ball.

    If Lance can learn to bring the ball up on the break and if he can learn to move well without the ball then in truth there is no reason why in Jim O'Briens system he can't perform and in a few years wouldn't actually excel in the role of slashing point guard.

    Now understand I am not saying that he will be able to hang with the Rondo's or other good defensive point guards of the world, I'm just trying to say that using Jim's system I think he can be the p.g.

    Ok back to bashing O'Brien as this makes me feel dirty.
    Isn't that a little bass akwards

    Seriously..how about having guards that can shoot (hence, perimeter players) and post players inside (hence..POST players..)

    I actually think Lance is going to semi-resemble TJ in Obrien's offense. He's ball dominant (TJ's ball dominant) He's turnover prone (TJ's turnover prone)

    However, he's much better at scoring at going to the rim, or my guess is he will be.

    As for being a PG in O'brien's system. At first look, I think people assume that the PG doesn't have to be a "true" PG. But I have to be honest, I think it's actually an incredibly hard position to play for O'brien because there's absolutely no offensive structure. The PG is supposed to play off ball often, but also supposed to create when things go off.

    Not to mention, JOB doesn't really help the PGs.
    Last edited by Sookie; 07-15-2010 at 12:44 PM.

  17. #39

    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    People comparing Lance Stephenson to George McCloud? Wow, that's a reach. I'm old enough to remember George McCloud. His play never excited anyone. Lance did things in the summer league that were amazing. His skills say point guard. His skills say special. Is there room for improvement? Of course. Might he have trouble against smaller point guards? Of course. Might smaller point guards have trouble against him? Of course. Is there any way to know at this point? Nope. Just gonna have to wait and see. But I can't remember a Pacer with his passing and ball handling skills. I want to see more, and I want to see it at the point. What I've seen so far has been amazing.

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  19. #40
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    He played pg in high school and has stated that it is his preferred position. Maybe you should complain to his college coach about the 1 season of his life he played sg.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    I think he'll have a better chance to be a PG than George will have to be a SG.

    First, we should get them ready to play thier "natural" positions before we move them away from their strengths and emphasize thier weaknesses.

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Again, how are you anything at 19?




    Edit: couldn't find the article
    Last edited by Speed; 07-15-2010 at 01:08 PM.

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Again, how are you anything at 19? I thought I read he did play some point in college, anyway. I'll search for the article.
    They tried him there...

    Just like they tried him there in AAU...

    albiet, the reason it didn't work could be something as simple as "not mature enough to make proper decisions with the ball.."

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    The guy is a basketball player... put the ball in his hands and he will make plays for you, yes he will try to force things, and yes he will have turnovers, but he will also make the people around him better and bring energy to the team.

    Too many people get caught up with this typical pg stereotype and want to force the issue of us having one. We just need to take what we get for now and if it doesn't work out well nothing new we will try again. It is not like we are one PG away from winning a title, and at best right now with FA and through trades we could only get a unproven guy with potential* or a low level starter or back up, and I personally would hate to give up decent assets for pg's with potential when we don't even know how good they will be when I feel that right now most aren't much better than our current options.

    Finally we are so quick to put people in set positions, the real question should be can the kid play with the ball in his hands... If he can than lets give him a go and support him along the way.

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    Flipped Off The Refs Larry Staverman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    I guess I will chime in and pop the cherry on this one.

    I watched the summer league games and what I like about Lance is not only the fact that he has some nice point guard skills but what stood out to me were his intangibles. I just got the feeling that he embraced the challenge of taking over leading the team at the point. It seemed he felt like the point was his best position to play and his job to lose.

    While a lot of the rookies took a while to adjust he seemed to be ready to play as soon as the 1st game started. I also noticed he wasn’t intimidated or timid in his play at any point.

    I believe his attitude and confidence built up from playing against older players and being in the spotlight while growing up will allow him to be able to handle a spot in the rotation from day one.

    I for one hope he is the starter on day one because I see no downside. Best case scenario is he gets better and better and exceeds everyone’s expectation and becomes our point guard of the future. Worst case he struggles and we win 25-30 games and get in better position to draft one of the point guards coming out next year.

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  26. #45
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Staverman View Post
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    ...pop the cherry on this one.
    Welcome. Great "name", coach!
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  27. #46

    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Staverman View Post
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    I guess I will chime in and pop the cherry on this one.

    I watched the summer league games and what I like about Lance is not only the fact that he has some nice point guard skills but what stood out to me were his intangibles. I just got the feeling that he embraced the challenge of taking over leading the team at the point. It seemed he felt like the point was his best position to play and his job to lose.

    While a lot of the rookies took a while to adjust he seemed to be ready to play as soon as the 1st game started. I also noticed he wasn’t intimidated or timid in his play at any point.

    I believe his attitude and confidence built up from playing against older players and being in the spotlight while growing up will allow him to be able to handle a spot in the rotation from day one.

    I for one hope he is the starter on day one because I see no downside. Best case scenario is he gets better and better and exceeds everyone’s expectation and becomes our point guard of the future. Worst case he struggles and we win 25-30 games and get in better position to draft one of the point guards coming out next year.
    Well said Larry. Lance Stephenson at the PG spot is a win-win situation. We get the big PG that we've already craved and needed and Lance get's the necessary experience at age 20 going against the best PGs in the NBA (and he's probably played against all of the young star PGs when they're were in high school or playing Summer AAU ball). He also proved in the Summer League going against very quick PGs that he's got the handle, is very explosive, and, at 6'5", he's got the size to get to the rim when the opportunity is there. He didn't shoot 73% (22 of 30) chucking 3pters all game although this part of his game will grow very quickly.

    Someone mentioned Evan Turner. He's my take on him. The problem that I see with Evan Turner is that he has only average explosiveness for a guy hyped up by the media as the #2 pick of the entire draft. Normally, a #2 pick has above-average explosiveness (like John Wall does) but Evan does not. He has short arms and only a 34.5" max vertical. He'll have a hard time trying to dominate athletic NBA players who have MORE explosiveness than he does. Some people were shocked when he ONLY shot 33% in Summer League but he ONLY shot 36% at the College 3pt line. As a NBA SG, he'll have to score his points in transition and breaking down his man which will be much harder in the NBA against elite athletes.

  28. #47
    Member pacers74's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    If we stick with our current lineup, then I am okay with giving Lance the majority of the PG minutes. At least until AJ is 100%.

  29. #48
    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    I'm with anyone who hates it when people say that Summer League play means nothing. They always seem to point to a small number of players that flopped during Summer League play. But you know most of the guys that perform great usually went on to have very good to great NBA seasons.

    Guys like Granger and Hibbert certainly fit the bill. On other teams I can remember players who coincidentally went on to have career years and/or sign nice FA deals like Jason Thompson, Tyreke Evans, Gortat, JJ Redick, Mike Miller, Roger Mason, Raja Bell, Zach Randolph, ect. I think that playing well in the Summer Leagues can really help a player.

    OTOH, many players that struggled badly during Summer League play went on to have disappointing seasons. Brandon Rush immediately comes to mind. Jordan Hill is another. Terrance Williams struggled in the 2009 games as well and went on to have a disappointing rookie season considering the opportunity to play he had.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

  30. #49
    '12 PD Sunshiner awardee Kemo's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by bphil View Post
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    As I've said before, he can't be any worse than T.J. Ford, who is our only other option right now. I say throw him in the deep end and let him swim.

    Personally I think Lance is either going to be a huge success for the Pacers or a massive failure (if a second round pick can really be considered a failure, which I guess it really can't). Here's an interesting article I found about him from a year ago when he was being recruited out of HS...

    http://www.ballinisahabit.net/2009/0...on-end-up.html


    good article..

    here is an excerpt:

    Lance Stephenson is already - a consensus top 10 recruit that has led Lincoln High School to four straight NYC PSAL titles, is the all-time leading scorer in the state of New York, and is considered by some to be the most talented player to ever come out of Coney Island.








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    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

  31. #50
    '12 PD Sunshiner awardee Kemo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    The thread starter brings up an interesting player, George McCloud. I remember the hype.
    I am curious what people remember as to why George was not an effective point.
    My biggest memory was two fold. His handles were weak and thus he had problems bringing the ball up court. I don' remember his court vision being great.

    Lance may also have some problems bringing the ball up against pressure but Lance is
    much stronger than George and has better handles with the ball. He is slowish however.
    On the fast break is where I see Lance at his best.

    Lance, from what i observed, is just the opposite, as to a suggestion that he may not be able to bring the ball up the court well and under pressure.. (at least from all his S.L. games anyways)

    In those games, he not only brought the ball up well, but did so pretty damn fast and efficiently , with nice crossovers and behind the back dribbling..

    He clearly has that attribute , and the ability to handle the ball well.. from seeing it with my own eyes... Now once the competition goes up in regular season, we will truly see how well it translates to stiffer competition and more pressure..

    I think he will do just fine..

    ..
    Last edited by Kemo; 07-15-2010 at 05:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

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