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Thread: Lance is not a pg

  1. #1
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    Default Lance is not a pg

    I can't believe all you buying into Larry's koolaid brigade.
    Lance Stephenson is as much a point guard as George McCloud was.
    Oh yeh, they hyped George even worse.
    He was going to be another Magic.

    Tell me how he's going to play pg for Obrien when he can't draw iron on 3's?
    He looked "ok" against summer league.
    He'll not get the ball over 1/2 court against the really quick competition.
    He MIGHT stick as a scoring 2, but without a 3 pt shot, that's a toughy too.

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Has nothing to do with "Larry's koolaid". I see what I see, and I think he could pull it off. Didn't say would, said could.

    As for satisfying Jim as a PG, there's one thing Jim likes more than a 3, and that's laying it in at the rim. As long as Lance can get to the rim (and finish), Jim will be just fine with Lance. Especially since Jim seems to think he'll be good in the pick and roll.

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    maybe we should watch him play in an actual game before we label him this or that?

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Okay...? I like to at least hope he can be one. I get little encouragement from the Pacers in the regular season. At least spare me the negativity that is maybe true. Give him a chance.

    -1 for pessimism

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    I think he'll have a better chance to be a PG than George will have to be a SG.

    First, we should get them ready to play thier "natural" positions before we move them away from their strengths and emphasize thier weaknesses.
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by MLB007 View Post
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    Tell me how he's going to play pg for Obrien when he can't draw iron on 3's?
    Because Earl Watson was a crack shot from distance.

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    already judging a guy who hasn't played a single nba game. summer league doesn't count
    2012: Pacers return to glory

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  11. #8
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Also, remember, Evan Turner had a miserable summer league. Shall we go ahead and label him a bust? It's summer league. Give these kids a chance to play in a real game before you jump to your conclusions.

    I won't label Lance as a savior or a complete flop. I'd rather let him play in an actual game before I judge him.

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    I would add, too, that there's a big difference between not really being a point guard, while being able to play at that position effectively, and being incapable of playing the position.

    Who cares if Lance isn't what anyone considers to be a stereotypical PG if, at the end of the day, you can put him at the 1 and he can make it work.

    We need a lot of help at the 1, and if Lance can succeed there, even if he's "supposed to be" a 2-guard, so be it.

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    I see Lance as a playmaker and he is going to need the ball in his hands to be effective. He won't play well with TJ, but he and Granger should be awesome, same with Rush. If he is not running point, we need a PG who will pass the ball early and let Lance create for our plethera of shooters. The biggest problem I see is him having problems getting the ball across halfcourt and turning the ball over to quick-fingered guards like Rondo.
    Last edited by PaceBalls; 07-15-2010 at 01:28 AM.

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    He showed tons of potential in summer league. Maybe the position won't ultimately work out, but he definitely did show potential.

    One other thing - he's 19. He's still 3 or 4 years in the league away from becoming the NBA player he will become. At that point, who knows what his handles and 3 point game might look like?

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    There's no guarantee that he'll ever be a starting pg and he might end up being a combo guard off the bench at best...but if you don't see that he has the tools to work with, (penetration, willing and able passer, midrange game) then I don't know what to tell you.

    A 19 year old certainly can improve on his weaknesses.
    Last edited by Merz; 07-15-2010 at 02:09 AM.

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    I like what I have seen from him so far, he has shown the ability to run the position. I know the regular season is a different thing, but his Summer League performance is a great window into what he can potientally do down the road. I don't think anyone here thinks he is our starting PG at the beginning of next season, but I have see enough to give him some minutes in the rotation. One thing you have to say is that he has the talent and strength to be effective in the NBA.
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  20. #14

    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    I don't know what kind of magic trick people are expecting out of Lance, but he clearly showed he's capable of running a team.

    He's a good ballhandler, has good court vision, can make a variety of crisp/accurate passes, penetrates/finishes well, and has an innate feel for the tempo of a game. For the love of Scott Haskins, how has he showed himself as more capable at another position?

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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Summer League or not, Lance has already clearly showed he could handle the ball and see the court. Whether it will end up being his ideal position or not may remain to be seen, but he already showed he had the applicable skills.

    Nobody is drinking Larry's "kool aid" I think people are just believing their eyes. He played the point pretty damn effectively in summer league.
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  24. #16
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by MLB007 View Post
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    I can't believe all you buying into Larry's koolaid brigade.
    Lance Stephenson is as much a point guard as George McCloud was.
    Oh yeh, they hyped George even worse.
    He was going to be another Magic.

    Tell me how he's going to play pg for Obrien when he can't draw iron on 3's?
    He looked "ok" against summer league.
    He'll not get the ball over 1/2 court against the really quick competition.
    He MIGHT stick as a scoring 2, but without a 3 pt shot, that's a toughy too.
    Hey wait a minute..... in the Al Harrington thread didn't you accuse us (me) of being too negative?

    Anyway......

    God help me but I'm about to try and justify some of O'Briens thinking using some form of logic.

    Yes Jim O'Brien likes the three point shot, that can not even be disputed by either side of the Jim fence.

    However why he likes the three is not always because of the ability to hit the three, it is to draw away bigger defenders in the paint so that wings and guards can penetrate to the basket. Thus why he is always so fascinated with having a power forward who can go out and spread the floor.

    Lance does not have to be a traditional point guard in Jim's system. In fact Jim's system does not call for a traditional point guard at all and really does not encourage the p.g. to do anything in the half court setting that you would normally see from a Darren Williams, Jason Kidd, Mark Jackson, etc.

    They have to know how to play off of the ball.

    If Lance can learn to bring the ball up on the break and if he can learn to move well without the ball then in truth there is no reason why in Jim O'Briens system he can't perform and in a few years wouldn't actually excel in the role of slashing point guard.

    Now understand I am not saying that he will be able to hang with the Rondo's or other good defensive point guards of the world, I'm just trying to say that using Jim's system I think he can be the p.g.

    Ok back to bashing O'Brien as this makes me feel dirty.


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  25. #17

    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    As I've said before, he can't be any worse than T.J. Ford, who is our only other option right now. I say throw him in the deep end and let him swim.

    Personally I think Lance is either going to be a huge success for the Pacers or a massive failure (if a second round pick can really be considered a failure, which I guess it really can't). Here's an interesting article I found about him from a year ago when he was being recruited out of HS...

    http://www.ballinisahabit.net/2009/0...on-end-up.html

  26. #18

    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    KG24-

    Speaking of Turner, no, I certainly wouldn't call him a bust. At this
    point, based on a few meaningless games, only an idiot would.

    But I will repeat what I said about a month ago before the draft.
    Turner was and is a bit overated and will not end up justifying his
    #2 draft slot.

    As for Stevenson at PG ? Who knows.

  27. #19
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Where is the optimism? It is like a Negative Nancy Convention in here lately....

  28. #20

    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers2012 View Post
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    already judging a guy who hasn't played a single nba game. summer league doesn't count
    Eh, everything counts. Every observation needs to be couched in its context and weighted appropriately. But you can't go through life saying things "don't count.

    "Summer league doesn't count."
    "Rookie season doesn't count."
    "Playing against western conference teams doesn't count."
    "Playing with a minor injury doesn't count."
    "Playing under Jim O'Brien doesn't count."

    You do that, you become a crank. Everything counts.

    Stephenson's ability to succeed as a point guard in the NBA is not proven. But he did enough during summer league to warrant further interest. People can only succeed when and where and against whom they have opportunity to compete.





    (And, incidentally, Nater counts most of all!)
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  30. #21

    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    Lance does not have to be a traditional point guard in Jim's system. In fact Jim's system does not call for a traditional point guard at all and really does not encourage the p.g. to do anything in the half court setting that you would normally see from a Darren Williams, Jason Kidd, Mark Jackson, etc.

    They have to know how to play off of the ball.

    If Lance can learn to bring the ball up on the break and if he can learn to move well without the ball then in truth there is no reason why in Jim O'Briens system he can't perform and in a few years wouldn't actually excel in the role of slashing point guard.

    Drad post, Sparky!


    (although if I were to take a persona from Farscape it would be Stark, not Crighton)
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  31. #22
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    Eh, everything counts. Every observation needs to be couched in its context and weighted appropriately. But you can't go through life saying things "don't count.

    "Summer league doesn't count."
    "Rookie season doesn't count."
    "Playing against western conference teams doesn't count."
    "Playing with a minor injury doesn't count."
    "Playing under Jim O'Brien doesn't count."

    You do that, you become a crank.
    Bender will bring it this year.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  32. #23
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Ok back to bashing O'Brien as this makes me feel dirty.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  33. #24
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Hey wait a minute..... in the Al Harrington thread didn't you accuse us (me) of being too negative?

    Anyway......

    God help me but I'm about to try and justify some of O'Briens thinking using some form of logic.

    Yes Jim O'Brien likes the three point shot, that can not even be disputed by either side of the Jim fence.

    However why he likes the three is not always because of the ability to hit the three, it is to draw away bigger defenders in the paint so that wings and guards can penetrate to the basket. Thus why he is always so fascinated with having a power forward who can go out and spread the floor.

    Lance does not have to be a traditional point guard in Jim's system. In fact Jim's system does not call for a traditional point guard at all and really does not encourage the p.g. to do anything in the half court setting that you would normally see from a Darren Williams, Jason Kidd, Mark Jackson, etc.

    They have to know how to play off of the ball.

    If Lance can learn to bring the ball up on the break and if he can learn to move well without the ball then in truth there is no reason why in Jim O'Briens system he can't perform and in a few years wouldn't actually excel in the role of slashing point guard.

    Now understand I am not saying that he will be able to hang with the Rondo's or other good defensive point guards of the world, I'm just trying to say that using Jim's system I think he can be the p.g.

    Ok back to bashing O'Brien as this makes me feel dirty.
    Good post, but if that's how a pg is used, then I rather Lance not be point guard.

    My point is that I don't care what you call him, I want the ball in Lance's hands. I want him as the playmaker. 1-2-3-4. Who cares.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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  35. #25
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    Default Re: Lance is not a pg

    The thread starter brings up an interesting player, George McCloud. I remember the hype.
    I am curious what people remember as to why George was not an effective point.
    My biggest memory was two fold. His handles were weak and thus he had problems bringing the ball up court. I don' remember his court vision being great.

    Lance may also have some problems bringing the ball up against pressure but Lance is
    much stronger than George and has better handles with the ball. He is slowish however.
    On the fast break is where I see Lance at his best.
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