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Thread: STAR: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

  1. #51
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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rupert Stilinski View Post
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    Obviously I'm a Pacers fan since I'm here, and I'm certainly very happy that they are going to stick around, at least for the short term.

    But I can't help be disappointed in the city for allowing this to still be the case. What is PS&E's right to those profits? It's a public building.
    I can understand that, but PS&E is the promoter to the majority of the events. They are the ones who "set up the gigs".

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder View Post
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    I think the problem lies in the fact that the tax on the food itself is not directly related to the food or food service, but a sports team.
    I think it is classified as an entertainment tax, which encompasses restaurants, events, hotels, etc.... So it is related to a sports team.

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The hope is the new CBA will make it easier for teams like the Pacers to be both financially competitive and competitive on the court as well.

    Reasons: Small market teams have a much smaller radio contract, much smaller cable contract. I don't have the exact figures, but a team like the lakers I would guess gets 10-15 times more for their local radio and local TV deals. So the lakers might get 25 Million per season for local radio and local tv, while the pacers might get 2.3 million.

    There is also a huge difference in sponsorships that a team like the lakers get vs pacers. Then you have ticket prices and there is a huge difference.

    Players get paid ther same whether they play in LA or Indiana, but the teams revenue is a lot less in small markets.

    National TV revenue is the same regardless of market size though
    That all sounds a bit like it's not in the hand of the Pacers, the team, the way they play...of course, good games and a good product attract more people who spend more money, but in the end, it seems like the only hope for the Pacers to stay in Indiana is the new CBA.

    A bit sad.
    Thank you Jeff.

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBaby33 View Post
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    Here is the actual article:

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2010...illion-to-stay

    The link in the first post of this thread, is just the front page of Indystar.
    That's because the entire story wasn't available on their website when I posted it, just the front page that I linked with the huge headline alluding to the news. Believe me, I look all over that site for the full story last night.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    I can understand that, but PS&E is the promoter to the majority of the events. They are the ones who "set up the gigs".

    Well... I'm not sure whether they really are the promoter very often. They likely (or should) seek out promoters to sell them on utilizing the fieldhouse for tours and other traveling entertainment options. And they should be working to make the fieldhouse as attractive as possible (from access to financial arrangements) so that promoters seek THEM out....

    ...But regardless of who wears the promoter hat it's not exactly a strong argument to say PS&E should keep all the profits for non-NBA basketball related events since they are the ones carrying the load. Of course they are the ones carrying the load, why would the city/CIB do ANYTHING in Conseco when PS&E gets the money from it??

    If the CIB actually got a significant portion of non-NBA basketball revenues it's likely they would take a very proactive approach with the arena to generate more revenue to the CIB coffers.
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  7. #56
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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Because the colts essentially have no costs.
    While Pacers are supposed to pay their own way.

    Both get to keep all the profits. Both have $1 rent.

    All the Colts have to do is put a team on the field.
    Am I reading this wrong?

    Ľ Colts: The team keeps rights to all football-related revenue in the stadium, as well as half the annual nonfootball revenue, up to $3.5 million. The team receives all revenues from a stadium name, signs and sponsorships in the stadium. The
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Am I reading this wrong?
    Yes you are because the real value in the deal is not the non football related income, its the no cost operation of the LOS. The non football related income is just icing on the cake. The Colts have essentially zero liabilities when it comes to LOS, and a guaranteed $3.5 Million

    While the Pacers must pay all expenses for the building. But get all the profits. The risk is greater. The Pacers made a bad decision in the long run.

    My initial thoughts as to why the Pacers wanted to control the building is that they get to control the event schedule. I imagine it costs alot of money to break down the court, and move all the lower bowl bleachers multiple times during the season. I remember being in the fieldhouse picking out our seats for the season last year and they were converting every thing over for the circus. There might have been 50-75 workers in the lower bowl unbolting the bleachers so that they could be folded up and wheeled out of there, rigging crews setting up lighting, etc...
    Last edited by graphic-er; 07-13-2010 at 09:12 AM.

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    My initial thoughts as to why the Pacers wanted to control the building is that they get to control the event schedule.
    That never occurred to me, but it absolutely sounds logical.
    BillS

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    Default Re: STAR: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    I'm certain the CIB would've gladly put it in the contract they will pay for the crews to turn over the arena if they don't have to pick up any of the operating costs and get to keep all or a significant portion of the non-NBA revenues.

    I must be reading the statement about the Colts deal wrong because it looks like the Pacers have the sweeter deal (the way I am reading it). The CIB and Colts split non-football revenue 50-50 up to 3.5mil and then anything over that is the CIB's.

    If the CIB picks up ANY of the operating costs there's just no way IMHO they shouldn't reap a significant cut from non-NBA revenues in the building... and they should have major control over those functions to the point of seeking out and negotiating for them.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: STAR: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Bball and I are on the same page here it seems. If the CIB had any incentive to promote the Fieldhouse for non-basketball events, they could do it just as easily as PS&E.

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    Default Re: STAR: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    On the front page of the Sunday Star, yet another unflattering article column about the deal between the CIB and PS&E. Man, The Star's editorial board must be really jacked because this is the 4th day one of these type of inflammatory articles has been written to anger even more about the deal. These have either been on the front page or leading the Metro section.

    Today, the writer (Francesca Jarosz) discussed how the Pacers will more then likely be back at the city's doorstep looking for another taxpayer handout because the city will have even less leverage after this week's give-a-way!

    I'm sure this Print Edition article will be available tomorrow...
    ...Still "flying casual"
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  14. #62
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    Default Re: STAR: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    You may feel it's unflattering, but the notion behind it (haven't read the article yet) is true. This is just typical government "kick the problem down the road" thinking that'll just make things worse.
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    Default Re: STAR: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy
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    This is just typical government "kick the problem down the road" thinking that'll just make things worse.

    I would normally agree, but there are three reasons why the short-term agreement might have been the best thing to do:

    1. The economy might be better three years from now.
    2. The Pacers' bottom line may look better three years from now.
    3. Indianapolis may have a better mayoral administration three years from now.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
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    Default Re: STAR: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    I would normally agree, but there are three reasons why the short-term agreement might have been the best thing to do:

    1. The economy might be better three years from now.
    2. The Pacers' bottom line may look better three years from now.
    3. Indianapolis may have a better mayoral administration three years from now.
    4. The NBA's CBA will absolutely look different from now.

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    Default Re: STAR: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Those are all correct, but I would counter that never again would it have been less likely for the Pacers to move. By setting the precedent now, it makes it much easier for them to demand even more in the future.

    Btw, I was at my parent's today and completely forgot about the article. Oh well, I'm sure it'll be online in a couple days.
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  19. #66
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    Default Re: STAR: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    I think postponing ANY decision for 2-3 years was the prudent thing to do UNLESS the CIB was going to get a bite of non-Pacer revenue in return for anything they gave.

    Since they didn't... it's more like they grabbed their ankles and asked if this would do for now...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  20. #67
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    Default Re: STAR: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    I think the real question here is does the billionaire owners think that owning an NBA team should be a very a profitable venture or is it really just a rich mans playland until they decide they have had enough?

    With the Simson's losing money 9 out of 10 years and presumably losing money back at MSA. Why would he now think that the Pacers could be a profitable business?

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    Default Re: STAR: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    I don't know about profitable, but I think it's reasonable to find a way to at least break even. They were losing money when the team was good/successful, too. This isn't really the city's problem so much as the NBA's, though.

  22. #69
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    Default Re: STAR: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    I think teams like the Pacers will be at the forefront of how the new CBA is constructed.

    For the league to be healthy, teams in smaller markets like the Pacers should at least be capable of breaking even, even in the down years. They will probably take teams like the Pacers and rerun their past seasons numbers and see how they would look if those years had happened under the proposal they're giving the NBAPA to make sure it's sustainable for smaller markets.

    At least I sure hope so. I think this will make or break whether the Pacers stay in Indianapolis beyond this deal with the CIB.

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