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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

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To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

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Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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STAR: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

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  • #46
    Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
    But the point is you as a person have direct control over how much tax you pay. That IS Freedom. I wish everything was based off a usage tax. IE the Fair Tax. It would have far reaching remedies/benefits to many of societies problems.

    Eat and pay a tax for it, or don't isn't the only choice, you could choose grow your own food, and pay no taxes for your meals.
    I think the problem lies in the fact that the tax on the food itself is not directly related to the food or food service, but a sports team.
    Last edited by Stryder; 07-12-2010, 03:56 PM.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

      Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
      But the point is you as a person have direct control over how much tax you pay. That IS Freedom. I wish everything was based off a usage tax. IE the Fair Tax. It would have far reaching remedies/benefits to many of societies problems.

      Eat and pay a tax for it, or don't isn't the only choice, you could choose grow your own food, and pay no taxes for your meals.
      "Make Your Choice"

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

        I took some note from the CIB president. Here are the details of the deal from the press conference:

        • For the next three years all home games will be played at the Fieldhouse. (They didn't explain if that includes exhibition games or not.)
        • PS&E will retain all profits from Pacers-related events, and non-Pacers-related events.
        • The Pacers will receive a $10 million payment per season/fiscal year towards operating funds for the Fieldhouse.
        • $13 million dollars were anticipated per year if the city were to take over operational costs of the Fieldhouse.
        • 2013-14, they will have to repay the loan in full if they leave by June 30th, 2013.
        • In 2019, the payment schedule decreases over time.
        • There have been less than $3 million dollars in capital improvements to Conseco Fieldhouse since 1999.
        • The Virginia Avenue parking garage agreement has been changed to $1 lease per year for PS&E.
        • By June 2010, the Virginia Avenue parking garage was paid in full.
        • There will be no additional tax increases in regards to this deal.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

          Originally posted by NuffSaid View Post
          Okay, now that a deal has been reached that will ensure the Pacers remain in Naptown thru 2019...
          Originally posted by docpaul View Post
          Does anything available state this? I'm pretty sure that all I read was a firm commitment to stay in town for the next three years.

          I believe we'll likely go through this process after that point, just based on what I've read...

          Am I wrong on this?
          I based my comment on this from the article:

          The deal comes after months of negotiations between the NBA franchise and the Capital Improvement Board, which operates the city's sports venues. It supplements the existing contract between the parties, which lasts through 2019.
          I'm sure the Pacers and CIB will go through this process again in three years, but I also believe things will work out for both sides and the Pacers will stay atleast through 2019. Anything after that is certainly a toss-up.
          -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Originally posted by PacersPride View Post
          having a winning record this season with the team as is doesnt really do much but land us in the 6-8 seed in the playoffs and another mid level draft pick. i dont think mediocrity is the key to putting fans back in the stands. playing a full 48 is tho.

          rather see the young guys get PT, get a top 10 draft pick, and solve the pg position once and for all either via draft or FA. then the fans may become more interested.

          heres my revision.

          2a) at the deadline, pacers make a solid deal acquiring the solution to the PG position, make the playoffs, and still get a decent draft pick to continue the rebuild.

          mediocrity is not what pacer fans are willing to pay for season after season. a "big splash" is needed either via draft (high draft pick) or a stud acquired via FA or trade.
          Baby steps, my man...baby steps.

          Yes, I know...seems that's what this team has been doing over the last 6 yrs, but they had no other choice. IMO, they overpaid too often for players who either didn't perform as expected or couldn't stay on the court long enough due to injuries during the course of a season to have any significant impact. So, after the Brawl and Artest's trade demand, TPTB were really stuck w/making "patch-work" signings.

          If you go back through the Pacers' history over the last 10-years as far as players they've signed or extended their contracts, you'll probably agree that it all started w/not resigning Brad Miller. Frankly, I would have tried harder to keep him, but I understood the Pacers' financial delimma at the time. JO & Reggie were their top priorities. I made more sense to ensure to retain their services over Brad's, but in doing so instead of paying him top dollar we "split the difference" and gave big contracts/extension to the other two aforementioned players. I agreed with paying Reggie, but thought we overpaid to keep JO.

          From there but in particular since the Artest/Peja trade, the Pacers have signed a short contract here or there with role players trying to merely fill the gaps and hang on. Their big break came when the were able to trade JO's monsterous contract. Only then could they start the rebuilding process. So, unlike most other fans I've been patient (except for at the end of last season) because I understood it was going to take time to work through all the expensive contracts and bad character issues that have hurt this team.

          This year starts things anew. This year is when I believe the Pacers truly start their climb back up to respectability w/the fans. They won't put much fear in the hearts of the more elit teams, ala, Lakers, Magic, and now Miami, but I think given time for the newbies to get their feel of their roles and understand the game at the NBA level things will begin to turn around for this team. I believe this because as they say the Pacers have experienced "addition by subtraction".

          Luther Head wasn't a bad player, but he wasn't very consistent. Plus, he nursed one minor injury or another the entire time he was here. I wanted so bad to see him earn the coach's respect enough to want to keep him here, but he never showed me what he could really do.

          Earl Watson, whom I'd love to keep, isn't a playmaker. True, he's a sturdy hand at the Point, but this team needs somebody who can score, render assists, and setup the offense - essentially create something out of nothing. I think most will agree that AJ Price brings these aspects to the team above Watson. Again, I'd love to keep him, but I think his asking price will be too high. Moreover, for the skills he brings I think they can be duplicated in Price who rarely turned the ball over last year.

          The Pacers truly missed the hustle w/o Foster and Hansborough being out there last year. Hopefully, Foster's years of back problems are finally over and Hansborough can play without seeing two-rims in front of him. (Frankly, I'm just hoping the young man can keep his balance! Virtego ain't no joke!!) These guys will push their teammates to be more aggressive out there. They both play with heart - tons of it! We missed that "toughness" when both of these guys went out.

          The only other areas that concern me are low-post, back-to-the-basket scoring and perimeter shooting. I don't want this team to continue to be that team that just throws up 20 ft jump shots all game. I want them to play smart and recognize that not ever shot has to be a 3-pointer. Sometimes, it's better to step inside the 3-pt line or drive the lane for the And1 than it is to take that shot. You can put a team back on their heals just as hard with the And1 because you get them in quick, deep foul trouble as you can with demoralizing them w/a barrage of 3-point shots. It's great when you're making them, but when you're missing teams tend to go into panic mode and keep trying forgetting about other aspects of their game. Still, it would be so nice if Grander, Dunleavy and BRush all could get uncorked w/the perimeter game.

          I still believe the pieces are their to move this team forward in positive ways. It's up to them to take that next step. But the building blocks are their now.
          Last edited by NuffSaid; 07-12-2010, 03:35 PM.

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          • #50
            Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

            Originally posted by duke dynamite View Post
            • PS&E will retain all profits from Pacers-related events, and non-Pacers-related events.
            Obviously I'm a Pacers fan since I'm here, and I'm certainly very happy that they are going to stick around, at least for the short term.

            But I can't help be disappointed in the city for allowing this to still be the case. What is PS&E's right to those profits? It's a public building.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

              Originally posted by Rupert Stilinski View Post
              Obviously I'm a Pacers fan since I'm here, and I'm certainly very happy that they are going to stick around, at least for the short term.

              But I can't help be disappointed in the city for allowing this to still be the case. What is PS&E's right to those profits? It's a public building.
              I can understand that, but PS&E is the promoter to the majority of the events. They are the ones who "set up the gigs".

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

                Originally posted by Stryder View Post
                I think the problem lies in the fact that the tax on the food itself is not directly related to the food or food service, but a sports team.
                I think it is classified as an entertainment tax, which encompasses restaurants, events, hotels, etc.... So it is related to a sports team.
                You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

                  Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                  The hope is the new CBA will make it easier for teams like the Pacers to be both financially competitive and competitive on the court as well.

                  Reasons: Small market teams have a much smaller radio contract, much smaller cable contract. I don't have the exact figures, but a team like the lakers I would guess gets 10-15 times more for their local radio and local TV deals. So the lakers might get 25 Million per season for local radio and local tv, while the pacers might get 2.3 million.

                  There is also a huge difference in sponsorships that a team like the lakers get vs pacers. Then you have ticket prices and there is a huge difference.

                  Players get paid ther same whether they play in LA or Indiana, but the teams revenue is a lot less in small markets.

                  National TV revenue is the same regardless of market size though
                  That all sounds a bit like it's not in the hand of the Pacers, the team, the way they play...of course, good games and a good product attract more people who spend more money, but in the end, it seems like the only hope for the Pacers to stay in Indiana is the new CBA.

                  A bit sad.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

                    Originally posted by BoomBaby33 View Post
                    Here is the actual article:

                    http://www.indystar.com/article/2010...illion-to-stay

                    The link in the first post of this thread, is just the front page of Indystar.
                    That's because the entire story wasn't available on their website when I posted it, just the front page that I linked with the huge headline alluding to the news. Believe me, I look all over that site for the full story last night.
                    Can we get a new color commentator please?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

                      Originally posted by duke dynamite View Post
                      I can understand that, but PS&E is the promoter to the majority of the events. They are the ones who "set up the gigs".

                      Well... I'm not sure whether they really are the promoter very often. They likely (or should) seek out promoters to sell them on utilizing the fieldhouse for tours and other traveling entertainment options. And they should be working to make the fieldhouse as attractive as possible (from access to financial arrangements) so that promoters seek THEM out....

                      ...But regardless of who wears the promoter hat it's not exactly a strong argument to say PS&E should keep all the profits for non-NBA basketball related events since they are the ones carrying the load. Of course they are the ones carrying the load, why would the city/CIB do ANYTHING in Conseco when PS&E gets the money from it??

                      If the CIB actually got a significant portion of non-NBA basketball revenues it's likely they would take a very proactive approach with the arena to generate more revenue to the CIB coffers.
                      Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                      ------

                      "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                      -John Wooden

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

                        Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
                        Because the colts essentially have no costs.
                        While Pacers are supposed to pay their own way.

                        Both get to keep all the profits. Both have $1 rent.

                        All the Colts have to do is put a team on the field.
                        Am I reading this wrong?

                        » Colts: The team keeps rights to all football-related revenue in the stadium, as well as half the annual nonfootball revenue, up to $3.5 million. The team receives all revenues from a stadium name, signs and sponsorships in the stadium. The
                        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                        ------

                        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                        -John Wooden

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

                          Originally posted by Bball View Post
                          Am I reading this wrong?
                          Yes you are because the real value in the deal is not the non football related income, its the no cost operation of the LOS. The non football related income is just icing on the cake. The Colts have essentially zero liabilities when it comes to LOS, and a guaranteed $3.5 Million

                          While the Pacers must pay all expenses for the building. But get all the profits. The risk is greater. The Pacers made a bad decision in the long run.

                          My initial thoughts as to why the Pacers wanted to control the building is that they get to control the event schedule. I imagine it costs alot of money to break down the court, and move all the lower bowl bleachers multiple times during the season. I remember being in the fieldhouse picking out our seats for the season last year and they were converting every thing over for the circus. There might have been 50-75 workers in the lower bowl unbolting the bleachers so that they could be folded up and wheeled out of there, rigging crews setting up lighting, etc...
                          Last edited by graphic-er; 07-13-2010, 09:12 AM.
                          You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

                            Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
                            My initial thoughts as to why the Pacers wanted to control the building is that they get to control the event schedule.
                            That never occurred to me, but it absolutely sounds logical.
                            BillS

                            A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                            Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: STAR: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

                              I'm certain the CIB would've gladly put it in the contract they will pay for the crews to turn over the arena if they don't have to pick up any of the operating costs and get to keep all or a significant portion of the non-NBA revenues.

                              I must be reading the statement about the Colts deal wrong because it looks like the Pacers have the sweeter deal (the way I am reading it). The CIB and Colts split non-football revenue 50-50 up to 3.5mil and then anything over that is the CIB's.

                              If the CIB picks up ANY of the operating costs there's just no way IMHO they shouldn't reap a significant cut from non-NBA revenues in the building... and they should have major control over those functions to the point of seeking out and negotiating for them.
                              Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                              ------

                              "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                              -John Wooden

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: STAR: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

                                Bball and I are on the same page here it seems. If the CIB had any incentive to promote the Fieldhouse for non-basketball events, they could do it just as easily as PS&E.

                                Comment

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