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Thread: STAR: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    For the approximate $10 or so per man, woman, and child that this agreement costs the taxpayers per year, why don't the Pacers send a $10 off voucher to each and every one of them somehow as compensation, with that voucher being good towards any ticket purchase or Pacers merchandise purchase they make? That way they can say that they are giving back to the community while promoting the franchise.
    Because then they would lose more money. They dont' want our money, just to give it back to us in the form of store credit.

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    I think we'll be able to pay the city back in the end.

    We're going to be successful by then.
    According to the Pacers brand of accounting, they lost money even when they were successful. They won't pay back squat. By 2019, I'm sure they'll be back with their hands cupped together, talking about how the Fieldhouse just isn't nearly good enough to support an NBA franchise and it needs $XX million in improvements just to remain competitive.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Three questions:

    1. How can the Pacers ever make profit when they've even lost money while being among the top 5 teams in the league with sold-out arenas and numerous consecutive playoff appearences?
    2. What the hell are the reasons for them losing money in their best seasons?
    3. Reading the reactions to the article on indystar.com, it seems like about 90 % of readers (= inhabitants of Indiana) hates the Pacers and wants them to leave. Is the perception really that bad or what's going on on the other side of the Pond?
    Thank you Jeff.

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by 31andonly View Post
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    Three questions:

    1. How can the Pacers ever make profit when they've even lost money while being among the top 5 teams in the league with sold-out arenas and numerous consecutive playoff appearences?
    2. What the hell are the reasons for them losing money in their best seasons?
    3. Reading the reactions to the article on indystar.com, it seems like about 90 % of readers (= inhabitants of Indiana) hates the Pacers and wants them to leave. Is the perception really that bad or what's going on on the other side of the Pond?
    Well i'm not sure how it is in Deutschland, but Indianapolis is full of idiots who don't understand anything about taxes, and who collects them, and things certain taxes pay for and what they can't pay for. Generally an uneducated society, who only pays attention to buzz words. Taxes=equal bad! Tax cuts= hell yeah! Parks and library closes due to tax cuts= hey whats the deal! why would close our parks and librarys!
    Last edited by graphic-er; 07-12-2010 at 10:17 AM.

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    This is great news....although there are alot of people in Indianapolis that don't support the decision, but these are either bandwagon/frontrunner fans or people that don't watch sports/nba at all. Oh well, can't make everybody happy.
    Fire up that tank and drive it to the draft

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by 31andonly View Post
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    Three questions:

    [LIST=1][*]How can the Pacers ever make profit when they've even lost money while being among the top 5 teams in the league with sold-out arenas and numerous consecutive playoff appearences?[*]What the hell are the reasons for them losing money in their best seasons?
    The hope is the new CBA will make it easier for teams like the Pacers to be both financially competitive and competitive on the court as well.

    Reasons: Small market teams have a much smaller radio contract, much smaller cable contract. I don't have the exact figures, but a team like the lakers I would guess gets 10-15 times more for their local radio and local TV deals. So the lakers might get 25 Million per season for local radio and local tv, while the pacers might get 2.3 million.

    There is also a huge difference in sponsorships that a team like the lakers get vs pacers. Then you have ticket prices and there is a huge difference.

    Players get paid ther same whether they play in LA or Indiana, but the teams revenue is a lot less in small markets.

    National TV revenue is the same regardless of market size though

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Okay, now that a deal has been reached that will ensure the Pacers remain in Naptown thru 2019, it's time this franchise start doing things to bring the fans back into the seats and only three things will surely accomplish that:

    1. Players need to stay out of trouble.

    2. Have a winning record this year; make the playoffs would be ideal.

    3. Give a full 48+ minutes on the court.

    If this team can do the above, the fans will come back. Just give us a team we can be proud of once again.

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    does this means that they can fire JOB and don't have to explain this to the city?

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
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    Okay, now that a deal has been reached that will ensure the Pacers remain in Naptown thru 2019, it's time this franchise start doing things to bring the fans back into the seats and only three things will surely accomplish that:

    1. Players need to stay out of trouble.

    2. Have a winning record this year; make the playoffs would be ideal.

    3. Give a full 48+ minutes on the court.

    If this team can do the above, the fans will come back. Just give us a team we can be proud of once again.
    having a winning record this season with the team as is doesnt really do much but land us in the 6-8 seed in the playoffs and another mid level draft pick. i dont think mediocrity is the key to putting fans back in the stands. playing a full 48 is tho.

    rather see the young guys get PT, get a top 10 draft pick, and solve the pg position once and for all either via draft or FA. then the fans may become more interested.

    heres my revision.

    2a) at the deadline, pacers make a solid deal acquiring the solution to the PG position, make the playoffs, and still get a decent draft pick to continue the rebuild.

    mediocrity is not what pacer fans are willing to pay for season after season. a "big splash" is needed either via draft (high draft pick) or a stud acquired via FA or trade.

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    I still wish the city could have gotten the non-Pacer conseco revenue.

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The hope is the new CBA will make it easier for teams like the Pacers to be both financially competitive and competitive on the court as well.

    Reasons: Small market teams have a much smaller radio contract, much smaller cable contract. I don't have the exact figures, but a team like the lakers I would guess gets 10-15 times more for their local radio and local TV deals. So the lakers might get 25 Million per season for local radio and local tv, while the pacers might get 2.3 million.

    There is also a huge difference in sponsorships that a team like the lakers get vs pacers. Then you have ticket prices and there is a huge difference.

    Players get paid ther same whether they play in LA or Indiana, but the teams revenue is a lot less in small markets.

    National TV revenue is the same regardless of market size though


    Speaking of market size (kinda): Is there any possibility that the bogus 75 mile radius market scope rule will be revised or otherwise looked at? I'm guessing no, but if I were the Pacers brass, I would squawk at that until it is changed. Not sure if that is something that is in the CBA or if it's just a rule that is separate from that.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
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    Okay, now that a deal has been reached that will ensure the Pacers remain in Naptown thru 2019
    Does anything available state this? I'm pretty sure that all I read was a firm commitment to stay in town for the next three years.

    I believe we'll likely go through this process after that point, just based on what I've read...

    Am I wrong on this?

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Does anything available state this? I'm pretty sure that all I read was a firm commitment to stay in town for the next three years.

    I believe we'll likely go through this process after that point, just based on what I've read...

    Am I wrong on this?
    I don't think it's wrong to say that this is only a commitment for the next three years, but it seems as though it would be even more difficult to move now. Not only will the team owe that significant 30 million figure if they moved after the next few years, but according to ESPN they'd also owe that huge chunk from the original contract. It was something like 50 million if I recall, so that pushes the total to around 80 million from ~2014, down to 51 million in 2019 with the decreasing amount of the new payment. So it's not a sure thing that they're here until 2019, but it seems highly unlikely that they'll move.

    The exact quote from the ESPN article:
    If the Pacers choose to leave Indianapolis after the three seasons, they would have to repay at least $30 million. That amount will decrease for each season they continue to play at Conseco.

    The new agreement is an addition to the existing contract, which runs until 2019 and includes other fees if the Pacers decide to leave early.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5373149

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    That fact is the CIB taxes are not mandatory taxes. You don't have to buy or use Cigarettes, rental cars, hotel rooms, event tickets, eating out, drinking alcohol.

    So you are not forced to pay for anything! All of these things are usage. I'd love for somebody to actually prove they are forced to pay for the Pacers.

    If a person wishes to eat a meal, it is a poor kind of freedom telling him he is free not to eat it. He wants to eat the meal and not be compelled to pay a tax unrelated to the cost of the meal.

    I don't mind the user taxes myself, but the argument against them is a strong one.


    (Notice how I stayed out of the TWSS thread by avoiding the words "eating out"?)




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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Bill Benner talks with Gerry Dick about the deal:


    http://link.backlight.tv/growindian/...-time-356.html


    The main thing he says is that this deal is a bridge to get past the new collective bargaining agreement.





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    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
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    But they never had much use for me
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  23. #41

    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    A few points:

    Don't judge the community by Message boards. I'm sure the majority of Indy is against this, but please.

    A community should leverage its strengths. There's no big river, no ocean, the weather ain't great, few historic locations, etc. What've we got? A safe and walkable downtown. And that sure as hell wasn't enough for a downtown scene during my youth. The "Naptown" thing wasn't a joke.

    So yeah, we subsidize the Colts and Pacers for some quality of life. Yes, it would be nice if our sewers were fixed, but that's another discussion. I don't thin 2 pro sports teams is overreaching.

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  25. #42
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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    How is it the Colts are thought to have the sweeter of the sweetheart deals? Is it just the initial stadium costs? What did the article leave out?
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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by smj887 View Post
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    I don't think it's wrong to say that this is only a commitment for the next three years, but it seems as though it would be even more difficult to move now.
    Yeah, I think I missed some of the nuances you described... thanks!

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    How is it the Colts are thought to have the sweeter of the sweetheart deals? Is it just the initial stadium costs? What did the article leave out?
    Because the colts essentially have no costs.
    While Pacers are supposed to pay their own way.

    Both get to keep all the profits. Both have $1 rent.

    All the Colts have to do is put a team on the field.

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    If a person wishes to eat a meal, it is a poor kind of freedom telling him he is free not to eat it. He wants to eat the meal and not be compelled to pay a tax unrelated to the cost of the meal.

    I don't mind the user taxes myself, but the argument against them is a strong one.
    But the point is you as a person have direct control over how much tax you pay. That IS Freedom. I wish everything was based off a usage tax. IE the Fair Tax. It would have far reaching remedies/benefits to many of societies problems.

    Eat and pay a tax for it, or don't isn't the only choice, you could choose grow your own food, and pay no taxes for your meals.

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    But the point is you as a person have direct control over how much tax you pay. That IS Freedom. I wish everything was based off a usage tax. IE the Fair Tax. It would have far reaching remedies/benefits to many of societies problems.

    Eat and pay a tax for it, or don't isn't the only choice, you could choose grow your own food, and pay no taxes for your meals.
    I think the problem lies in the fact that the tax on the food itself is not directly related to the food or food service, but a sports team.
    Last edited by Stryder; 07-12-2010 at 03:56 PM.

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    But the point is you as a person have direct control over how much tax you pay. That IS Freedom. I wish everything was based off a usage tax. IE the Fair Tax. It would have far reaching remedies/benefits to many of societies problems.

    Eat and pay a tax for it, or don't isn't the only choice, you could choose grow your own food, and pay no taxes for your meals.
    "Make Your Choice"


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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    I took some note from the CIB president. Here are the details of the deal from the press conference:


    • For the next three years all home games will be played at the Fieldhouse. (They didn't explain if that includes exhibition games or not.)
    • PS&E will retain all profits from Pacers-related events, and non-Pacers-related events.
    • The Pacers will receive a $10 million payment per season/fiscal year towards operating funds for the Fieldhouse.
    • $13 million dollars were anticipated per year if the city were to take over operational costs of the Fieldhouse.
    • 2013-14, they will have to repay the loan in full if they leave by June 30th, 2013.
    • In 2019, the payment schedule decreases over time.
    • There have been less than $3 million dollars in capital improvements to Conseco Fieldhouse since 1999.
    • The Virginia Avenue parking garage agreement has been changed to $1 lease per year for PS&E.
    • By June 2010, the Virginia Avenue parking garage was paid in full.
    • There will be no additional tax increases in regards to this deal.

  34. #49

    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
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    Okay, now that a deal has been reached that will ensure the Pacers remain in Naptown thru 2019...
    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Does anything available state this? I'm pretty sure that all I read was a firm commitment to stay in town for the next three years.

    I believe we'll likely go through this process after that point, just based on what I've read...

    Am I wrong on this?
    I based my comment on this from the article:

    The deal comes after months of negotiations between the NBA franchise and the Capital Improvement Board, which operates the city's sports venues. It supplements the existing contract between the parties, which lasts through 2019.
    I'm sure the Pacers and CIB will go through this process again in three years, but I also believe things will work out for both sides and the Pacers will stay atleast through 2019. Anything after that is certainly a toss-up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    having a winning record this season with the team as is doesnt really do much but land us in the 6-8 seed in the playoffs and another mid level draft pick. i dont think mediocrity is the key to putting fans back in the stands. playing a full 48 is tho.

    rather see the young guys get PT, get a top 10 draft pick, and solve the pg position once and for all either via draft or FA. then the fans may become more interested.

    heres my revision.

    2a) at the deadline, pacers make a solid deal acquiring the solution to the PG position, make the playoffs, and still get a decent draft pick to continue the rebuild.

    mediocrity is not what pacer fans are willing to pay for season after season. a "big splash" is needed either via draft (high draft pick) or a stud acquired via FA or trade.
    Baby steps, my man...baby steps.

    Yes, I know...seems that's what this team has been doing over the last 6 yrs, but they had no other choice. IMO, they overpaid too often for players who either didn't perform as expected or couldn't stay on the court long enough due to injuries during the course of a season to have any significant impact. So, after the Brawl and Artest's trade demand, TPTB were really stuck w/making "patch-work" signings.

    If you go back through the Pacers' history over the last 10-years as far as players they've signed or extended their contracts, you'll probably agree that it all started w/not resigning Brad Miller. Frankly, I would have tried harder to keep him, but I understood the Pacers' financial delimma at the time. JO & Reggie were their top priorities. I made more sense to ensure to retain their services over Brad's, but in doing so instead of paying him top dollar we "split the difference" and gave big contracts/extension to the other two aforementioned players. I agreed with paying Reggie, but thought we overpaid to keep JO.

    From there but in particular since the Artest/Peja trade, the Pacers have signed a short contract here or there with role players trying to merely fill the gaps and hang on. Their big break came when the were able to trade JO's monsterous contract. Only then could they start the rebuilding process. So, unlike most other fans I've been patient (except for at the end of last season) because I understood it was going to take time to work through all the expensive contracts and bad character issues that have hurt this team.

    This year starts things anew. This year is when I believe the Pacers truly start their climb back up to respectability w/the fans. They won't put much fear in the hearts of the more elit teams, ala, Lakers, Magic, and now Miami, but I think given time for the newbies to get their feel of their roles and understand the game at the NBA level things will begin to turn around for this team. I believe this because as they say the Pacers have experienced "addition by subtraction".

    Luther Head wasn't a bad player, but he wasn't very consistent. Plus, he nursed one minor injury or another the entire time he was here. I wanted so bad to see him earn the coach's respect enough to want to keep him here, but he never showed me what he could really do.

    Earl Watson, whom I'd love to keep, isn't a playmaker. True, he's a sturdy hand at the Point, but this team needs somebody who can score, render assists, and setup the offense - essentially create something out of nothing. I think most will agree that AJ Price brings these aspects to the team above Watson. Again, I'd love to keep him, but I think his asking price will be too high. Moreover, for the skills he brings I think they can be duplicated in Price who rarely turned the ball over last year.

    The Pacers truly missed the hustle w/o Foster and Hansborough being out there last year. Hopefully, Foster's years of back problems are finally over and Hansborough can play without seeing two-rims in front of him. (Frankly, I'm just hoping the young man can keep his balance! Virtego ain't no joke!!) These guys will push their teammates to be more aggressive out there. They both play with heart - tons of it! We missed that "toughness" when both of these guys went out.

    The only other areas that concern me are low-post, back-to-the-basket scoring and perimeter shooting. I don't want this team to continue to be that team that just throws up 20 ft jump shots all game. I want them to play smart and recognize that not ever shot has to be a 3-pointer. Sometimes, it's better to step inside the 3-pt line or drive the lane for the And1 than it is to take that shot. You can put a team back on their heals just as hard with the And1 because you get them in quick, deep foul trouble as you can with demoralizing them w/a barrage of 3-point shots. It's great when you're making them, but when you're missing teams tend to go into panic mode and keep trying forgetting about other aspects of their game. Still, it would be so nice if Grander, Dunleavy and BRush all could get uncorked w/the perimeter game.

    I still believe the pieces are their to move this team forward in positive ways. It's up to them to take that next step. But the building blocks are their now.
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 07-12-2010 at 03:35 PM.

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    Default Re: SIAP: Pacers reach deal with city? (link)

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    • PS&E will retain all profits from Pacers-related events, and non-Pacers-related events.
    Obviously I'm a Pacers fan since I'm here, and I'm certainly very happy that they are going to stick around, at least for the short term.

    But I can't help be disappointed in the city for allowing this to still be the case. What is PS&E's right to those profits? It's a public building.

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