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Thread: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

  1. #26
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    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    Um, I think humans that know the seer should be allowed to say. Just don't allow pms to get posted. I know when Nash and I discussed this, and he downplayed it, but both times PMs came up in the thread it really screwed with our strategy.

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  2. #27

    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Um, I think humans that know the seer should be allowed to say. Just don't allow pms to get posted. I know when Nash and I discussed this, and he downplayed it, but both times PMs came up in the thread it really screwed with our strategy.
    There's a world of difference between someone saying, "I know who the seer is" and the seer outright saying who they are.

    The former is no issue. The latter ruins the game.

    Someone coming out and saying, "I know who the seer is, and it's X" is not functionally different than the seer announcing themselves.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me btown.

    I thought I read Nash's original post as saying humans who know who the seer is should not be able to announce that information in the thread...which I disagree with.

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  4. #29

    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    btown -- notice that in the original post, Pig Nash proposes that it should be against the rules for a human to speak on behalf of the seer, even whilst keeping his identity hidden.

  5. #30

    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me btown.

    I thought I read Nash's original post as saying humans who know who the seer is should not be able to announce that information in the thread...which I disagree with.
    We're saying different things then.

    I can tell you, from repeated experience, that once the seer is publicly announced, the game is over. There's no way around it.

  6. #31
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    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    Isn't even better for the seer when they can use humans as shields instead of coming out and saying they're the seer? If the angel was still alive, couldn't he protect the shield and in effect do the same thing making it too easy on the humans?

  7. #32
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    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    Yeah, binary said it better than me.

    What Nash is saying is that Ms. Piggy could not have named myself and belli in the fashion she did under his rules. I'm not sure I agree with that, but if I was a wolf again I would probably like that.

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  8. #33
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    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    Yeah, I can see where you are coming from Nash, and as a wolf it does complicate things, but I don't know, you also don't want to weight it too much to the wolves.

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  9. #34
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    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    Hicks has checked this thread but dunno if he is aware of your post Sweabs...wont hurt to contact him...

  10. #35

    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    I have to wonder if there isn't a mechanism change that would make this work smoother as opposed to these rules restricting the way you can or cannot communicate. Rules such as "you can't reveal yourself as seer" have so many loopholes and it would be awful hard to strictly police it.


    Unrelated question: is it allowed to send PMs to someone from an account not in play? E.g. could I make a new account and contact someone with it so as not to reveal my identity

  11. #36

    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by binarysolo
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    I have to wonder if there isn't a mechanism change that would make this work smoother as opposed to these rules restricting the way you can or cannot communicate. Rules such as "you can't reveal yourself as seer" have so many loopholes and it would be awful hard to strictly police it.
    It's always worked in the past. People police themselves sufficiently because people enjoy the game. The only time that rule failed is when I allowed it to fail running the game (and it only did so after someone asked me if they could, they did not just go ahead and do it).

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    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    Hey guys, I'm making a group for regular players of the wolf game. I'm sending out invites now. If you don't get one and would like one sorry I'm an idiot and forget things, please just let me know if I do that

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  13. #38
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    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    I agree, TJ but I'm just trying to level it out as best I can. If the strategy that Ms. Piggy and binary employed is within the rules, then I guess that's ok. I'm just trying to think of a way the wolves could use it to fool the humans, and I can't.

    Generally I try to keep the rules such that a wolf could do the same thing as a human and it wouldn't completely backfire on them.

  14. #39

    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    What's also funny is that every time we've done this, there's a huge rules conversation after the second game.

    We never make it to a third game.

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  16. #40

    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by btowncolt View Post
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    It's always worked in the past. People police themselves sufficiently because people enjoy the game. The only time that rule failed is when I allowed it to fail running the game (and it only did so after someone asked me if they could, they did not just go ahead and do it).
    well, are players allowed to imply that they are the seer? How far can you go? what about something like "trust me guys... I have ways of knowing these things"

    can you drop any hints? what happens if your hint is just a little too obvious? can you PM everyone and declare yourself the seer? (okay that one is a little outlandish).

    Part of me thinks that if the seer is allowed to dominate the game like that, it is the fault of the wolves in the first place. The wolves know who is human and who is a wolf already. Shouldn't they be able to be just as convincing about being the seer and dupe people long enough to get the actual seer killed?

  17. #41
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    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    I mean I think we might as well just fire up a third game, and keep working on the rules as we go. Everyone using the honor system.

    One thing that must go is PM copy and pasting.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  18. #42
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    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    Ok. I think Ms. Piggy was gonna gm it as a Mafia game if everybody is alright with that. Should I start a signup thread or just have people sign up in here?

  19. #43

    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by binarysolo View Post
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    well, are players allowed to imply that they are the seer? How far can you go? what about something like "trust me guys... I have ways of knowing these things"

    can you drop any hints? what happens if your hint is just a little too obvious? can you PM everyone and declare yourself the seer? (okay that one is a little outlandish).

    Part of me thinks that if the seer is allowed to dominate the game like that, it is the fault of the wolves in the first place. The wolves know who is human and who is a wolf already. Shouldn't they be able to be just as convincing about being the seer and dupe people long enough to get the actual seer killed?
    Veiled hints have always been a part of the game. I recognized a few of yours early on. The wolves didn't. You should have been eaten, you weren't, the humans won.

    The idea that "The wolves could trick everyone too!" doesn't work. Why? Because the instant one fake seer comes out, the real seer knows who a wolf is without having to waste a night. People would fall for it a maximum of one vote, realize they were duped, and at least a few wolves would be exposed pretty readily.

  20. #44
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    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    I'd start one separately Nash, that way we could use this to still mess with the rules.

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  22. #45
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    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    i think what binary did with Piggy and others was fine - if the humans feel like they want to sacrifice themselves to some random person - then so be it...look for the wolves in the upcoming games to dedicate one of themselves to use similar strategies.

    yes - posting PMs should go.
    posting game relevant convos after dying/voted off should go.
    and the seer/angel/ should not reveal themselves in the forum - they can use words to say they could have a sense or something but nothing that just goes and says "I AM THE LAW...err I mean see/angel"

  23. #46
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    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by btowncolt View Post
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    Veiled hints have always been a part of the game. I recognized a few of yours early on. The wolves didn't. You should have been eaten, you weren't, the humans won.

    The idea that "The wolves could trick everyone too!" doesn't work. Why? Because the instant one fake seer comes out, the real seer knows who a wolf is without having to waste a night. People would fall for it a maximum of one vote, realize they were duped, and at least a few wolves would be exposed pretty readily.
    Agreed. Veiled hints are a part of the game. That's what makes it fun, for a while I was just trying to call myself "innocent" and not a human because I was trying to make my character into a print who thinks he is simply better than the humans and doesn't see the wrong in his ways, but that sort of divulged when I got desparate.

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  24. #47

    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by btowncolt View Post
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    Veiled hints have always been a part of the game. I recognized a few of yours early on. The wolves didn't. You should have been eaten, you weren't, the humans won.

    The idea that "The wolves could trick everyone too!" doesn't work. Why? Because the instant one fake seer comes out, the real seer knows who a wolf is without having to waste a night. People would fall for it a maximum of one vote, realize they were duped, and at least a few wolves would be exposed pretty readily.

    Yes, the seer learns who a wolf is. The wolves learn who the seer is. The wolves will likely be forced to sacrifice 1 or 2 wolves to uphold the charade, but it's worth it to bring down the true seer. As long as you can fool the angel, you can nom nom nom the seer.

    I mean, if the seer has too much power... maybe the seer should have less power?

  25. #48

    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by binarysolo View Post
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    Yes, the seer learns who a wolf is. The wolves learn who the seer is. The wolves will likely be forced to sacrifice 1 or 2 wolves to uphold the charade, but it's worth it to bring down the true seer. As long as you can fool the angel, you can nom nom nom the seer.

    I mean, if the seer is has too much power... maybe the seer should have less power?
    The balance of power has never been a problem until the basic rules have been changed.

    The seer's power grows only in proportion to how long he's left alive. If the seer leaves hints strong enough to encourage voting to go a particular way, he's easily picked off by the wolves. Part of the fun back-and-forth there has often been when the angel knows who the seer is and the wolves do too - who will the angel protect? Do the wolves think they can waste a night going after the seer or should they go after others?

    This game was human-friendly because the wolves didn't pick up on your role and forum members took advantage of forum tools that were and not technically supposed to be available under the normal playing of the game (which isn't a criticism of their doing so - it wasn't against the rules and I did the same). If there's a way to eliminate the use of those forum tools, you'll see the game shift back to where it's generally supposed to be.

    Much of the game depends on the strategy the wolves adopt early on and how well they execute it. TJ and Belli made a fatal error by adopting an extreme position that Piggy was being duped and did so together (meaning they were both gone if one proved to be a wolf). While this may have not been that much of a mistake because you had already seen them both, it was a tactical mistake. But by that point, it was already over. You had been left alive too long and people had done too much research anyway.
    Last edited by btowncolt; 07-02-2010 at 11:22 AM.

  26. #49
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    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    How about a Wild Card Role?

    1 seer
    1 angel
    1 Wild card role
    x humans
    x/4 (or /5) number of wolves

    The Wild card role could be another seer or another angel but its weighted most to be either human or wolf. This way there COULD be two people saying they are the seer and they be right OR it could just be the wild card wolf... Maybe give the extra wolf a special ability? Like choosing one person that can't be seen that night? It wouldn't have to be a wolf he chose but he could throw the scent off of himself and maybe make the seer waste a night or two trying to see the truth. I suppose if that were the case the seer would know the other "Seer" was the special wolf. What other abilities could a special wolf have? Could he "see" humans to try to find the angel or seer?

    I like this idea in theory? Any thoughts on the addition of a Wild Card Role?

  27. #50
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    Default Re: The Wolf Game Rules Thread

    How would the gm pick what the wild card would be?

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