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Thread: Could Danny do this?

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    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Default Could Danny do this?

    In light of the absurd contracts being given Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson, what are the possibilities of Danny holding out for a restructuring of his contract or a pay raise?

    I know this is a common strategy by players in the NFL. I believe that is exactly what is happening with Reggie Wayne and the Colts right now. However, I do not recall a situation like that in the NBA. Does this happen?

    IMO, Johnson and Gay are no where near "max" player level. In fact, Peck and I were discussing this and we both agreed that there are only 4 players in the league right now deserving of max money (James, Wade, Bryant, and Howard....I also happen to believe Durant as well).

    I believe Danny is right on the same level as Johnson and Gay in terms of talent, contribution, and importance to the team. Now he will be paid considerably less, he has to know this and probably regrets not hitting the open market. Could he hold out?
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    Member ChristianDudley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Danny do this?

    I think Danny is not about the money as much as those other guys are...If I remember correctly, didn't Danny turn down like $80 million from us and instead took $60 million so that it wouldn't "break our bank" and therefore even sign Foster to an extension?

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    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Danny do this?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianDudley View Post
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    I think Danny is not about the money as much as those other guys are...If I remember correctly, didn't Danny turn down like $80 million from us and instead took $60 million so that it wouldn't "break our bank" and therefore even sign Foster to an extension?
    Goodness I hope not for Danny's sake. If thats true Danny lost out of 20 million so that Jeff Foster could sit courtside last season. But I actually don't remember hearing anything like that.
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    Default Re: Could Danny do this?

    Danny can't hold out for anything. The NBA does not allow for restructuring for contracts. I remember a long time ago Shawn Kemp foolishly signed a long term deal with the Sonics that paid him $3M a year. He did it for long term security. Then in the summer of 96, all these FAs got massive, massive contracts. Then the Sonics signed Jim McIlvaine to a contract that was richer than Kemps. That began the downfall of Kemp in Seattle, as he sulked and moped about having such a crappy deal and eventually he wanted out. For all the sulking and complaining, the Sonics never restructured his original deal because the CBA simply does not allow for it.

    I suspect Danny will try to make up for this when he's up for his next contract. But that's not for another 3 years and he'll be 30 by then, which will make a MAX deal for him by then less likely.

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    Default Re: Could Danny do this?

    If the CBA changes are going to be as heavy as they sound....his contract is close to next year's max money.

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    Default Re: Could Danny do this?

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Danny can't hold out for anything. The NBA does not allow for restructuring for contracts. I remember a long time ago Shawn Kemp foolishly signed a long term deal with the Sonics that paid him $3M a year. He did it for long term security. Then in the summer of 96, all these FAs got massive, massive contracts. Then the Sonics signed Jim McIlvaine to a contract that was richer than Kemps. That began the downfall of Kemp in Seattle, as he sulked and moped about having such a crappy deal and eventually he wanted out. For all the sulking and complaining, the Sonics never restructured his original deal because the CBA simply does not allow for it.

    I suspect Danny will try to make up for this when he's up for his next contract. But that's not for another 3 years and he'll be 30 by then, which will make a MAX deal for him by then less likely.

    Do they still have the same CBA? I cant remember when the last CBA negotiations were, but probably at least once since 1996.
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    Default Re: Could Danny do this?

    CBA was renegotiated in early 1999 as part of the NBA lockout. I don't recall if it's since been renegotiated.

    Granger cannot renegotiate as NBA contracts are guaranteed unlike those in the NFL. It's almost a given that under the new CBA, salaries will decrease and Danny will be doing well over the next few years.

    As far as Granger leaving money on the table, I don't think that was the case at all. If you recall, comparable players at the time like Deng and Iguodala signed similar deals to Danny's and the Pacers paid fair market value at the time.

    Sure, I'd love the Pacers to have a guy like LeBron, but I'm almost a little happy we'll have a ton of cap space next summer instead of this summer, especially given all of these crazy deals that are being passed out. Look at the deals for guys like Gooden, Salmons, Amir, Joe Johnson, etc. I think a lot of teams will regret these deals in a few years and we'll be hearing about how awful these contracts are.

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    Default Re: Could Danny do this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothdave1 View Post
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    CBA was renegotiated in early 1999 as part of the NBA lockout. I don't recall if it's since been renegotiated.

    Granger cannot renegotiate as NBA contracts are guaranteed unlike those in the NFL. It's almost a given that under the new CBA, salaries will decrease and Danny will be doing well over the next few years.

    As far as Granger leaving money on the table, I don't think that was the case at all. If you recall, comparable players at the time like Deng and Iguodala signed similar deals to Danny's and the Pacers paid fair market value at the time.

    Sure, I'd love the Pacers to have a guy like LeBron, but I'm almost a little happy we'll have a ton of cap space next summer instead of this summer, especially given all of these crazy deals that are being passed out. Look at the deals for guys like Gooden, Salmons, Amir, Joe Johnson, etc. I think a lot of teams will regret these deals in a few years and we'll be hearing about how awful these contracts are.
    .......and in addition to this, I'm glad the Pacers only had Watson and Luther Head as free-agents, as it could have been brutal for us if we were resigning some of these guys, such as the Drew Gooden-types, Amir Johnson-types, etc.

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    Default Re: Could Danny do this?

    The ironic thing with all of this is that the Pacers could be in the best shape in the NBA cap-wise next summer. Assuming that the Bulls, Nets, Knicks, etc. all utilize their cap room this summer for long-term deals and other teams with cap space (Thunder) will resign Durant and Green perhaps this summer, no other NBA team will have as much cap flexibility as the Pacers.

    If and when the CBA is renegotiated and salaries likely decrease, the Pacers could be sitting pretty with a ton of cap space and lower salaries for better players. We'll have roughly 45 million in expiring contracts next summer and only Granger, Dahntay, George, team options on Rush, Tyler, Roy and Price's unguaranteed deal.

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    Default Re: Could Danny do this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothdave1 View Post
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    The ironic thing with all of this is that the Pacers could be in the best shape in the NBA cap-wise next summer. Assuming that the Bulls, Nets, Knicks, etc. all utilize their cap room this summer for long-term deals and other teams with cap space (Thunder) will resign Durant and Green perhaps this summer, no other NBA team will have as much cap flexibility as the Pacers.

    If and when the CBA is renegotiated and salaries likely decrease, the Pacers could be sitting pretty with a ton of cap space and lower salaries for better players. We'll have roughly 45 million in expiring contracts next summer and only Granger, Dahntay, George, team options on Rush, Tyler, Roy and Price's unguaranteed deal.
    Yes, but the 2011 FA's are nothing to scream about. Other than Melo and Durant, which will both be resigned. I would much prefer to bring in something for our expirings than to let them walk as sadly Troy Murphy will probably be one of the better FA's that summer.
    Last edited by Diamond Dave; 07-01-2010 at 11:57 PM. Reason: typo
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    Default Re: Could Danny do this?

    Unrestricted free agents next summer include: Yao, Melo, Nene, Jamal Crawford, Prince, Chandler, Caron Butler, Battier, Zach Randolph, Redd, David West, Carl Landry, Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, etc. You'll have guys like Mike Conley, Marc Gasol, Aaron Brooks, Noah, Horford, Oden, etc. who will also be restricted as well.

    Granted, the list isn't as impressive as this summer, but the Pacers may have a chance to get a few decent players.

    I'd rather pay a guy like Butler 6-7 mil a year under the new CBA versus paying a guy like Joe Johnson 20 mil a year under the current CBA.

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    Default Re: Could Danny do this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave View Post
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    Do they still have the same CBA? I cant remember when the last CBA negotiations were, but probably at least once since 1996.
    The current CBA was set in 2005.

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    Default Re: Could Danny do this?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianDudley View Post
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    some of these guys, such as the Drew Gooden-types, Amir Johnson-types, etc.

    Has Amir Johnson signed a new contract that I'm not aware of? If so what did he get, and by whom?

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    Default Re: Could Danny do this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Has Amir Johnson signed a new contract that I'm not aware of? If so what did he get, and by whom?
    Quote Originally Posted by ESPN
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    The 23-year old Johnson agreed to terms with the Raptors on a five-year, $34-million contract, Johnson's agent Kevin Bradbury told The Associated Press.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5347403

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    Default Re: Could Danny do this?

    holy crap. amir johnson on almost $7m a year?

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    Default Re: Could Danny do this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave View Post
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    Yes, but the 2011 FA's are nothing to scream about. Other than Melo and Durant, which will both be resigned. I would much prefer to bring in something for our expirings than to let them walk as sadly Troy Murphy will probably be one of the better FA's that summer.


    Too many posters seem to relate being under the cap to only signing FA when it has numerous uses and advantages. Look at what Camby got Denver in the form of a nice TE when they traded him to Portland. Basically, Portland bought Camby b/c they were under the cap. The Pacers can be in a position do the same after the 011 season if they keep their expiring contracts that will allow them to be under the cap. Posters need to look past only FA and broaden their views how the Pacers can use being under the cap next summer.

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    Default Re: Could Danny do this?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianDudley View Post
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    I think Danny is not about the money as much as those other guys are...If I remember correctly, didn't Danny turn down like $80 million from us and instead took $60 million so that it wouldn't "break our bank" and therefore even sign Foster to an extension?
    Hold up. There is no way that is true. If it is true, it is nothing admirable. It is just plain stupid.

    Nobody is so "not about the money," that they would willingly not be about an extra $20 million bucks. That's absurd.

    Danny may be fairly compensated, but he didn't do us any huge favors with his deal.

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