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Thread: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    If your argument is that "after all, he doesn't have a guaranteed contract", I guess that helps...but where is the benefit of drafting him? You don't draft a guy and expect him to fall flat on his face. If he succeeds, who signs him to his multi-million dollar contract? Personally, I don't think the Pacers can take a risk on him. The only alternative is to trade the asset and it would be a fire sale.
    I don't understand...are you saying that a problem with Stephenson is that he will want a multi-million dollar contract if he succeeds? Is there an NBA player who doesn't? I think it will be incredibly fortunate if our 2nd round pick does well enough to command a high salary.

    How much of a "risk" is any second round pick, really?

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    And with Brandon Rush as your starting SG, at least as of right now, I think those qualities are magnified a little. You can't have 2 passive guards. Guys have got to be more assertive. I think the key here is Lance learning a good shot from a bad one, and a good pass from a bad one. Sure he was let go off Team USA, but I don't really think that has anything to do with the future. That was him then, as an extremely young player with a lot to learn. Why not give him a chance? What do we have to lose? If it doesn't work out, back to SG he goes. But the potential of him at PG with his size and handles is worth a look.



    I think people should stop writing people off for mistakes they have made as kids. He is a human being, and human beings make mistakes. It's easy for us to sit here and criticize people. But none of us know what it's like to have people doing news stories about you as an 8th grader and constantly showering you with praise every step of your development. It has an affect on your mindset. I think we were all a lot different as 17-19 year olds than we were at 24-25 year olds. So lets hold off the criticism until the kid at least gets a fair shake at growing up. These guys live in a different world than we do, and experience a side of life most of us have no clue about. A lot of people have overcame a lot more than ego problems, so I don't see any reason to feel Lance can't overcome what ever issues he may have.

    Sure, we are all a little concerned with some things in his past. But who knows? For a second round pick he has great potential. I think we should all be excited about that.
    I don't blame him. I just don't think he's worth the risk because I don't see a sufficient reward. IMO, the best case situation means that he plays well and we trade him for some nominal value. Worst case, he plays well, we re-sign him and he blows up like Artest or Marbury. Middle ground is...we cut him loose. None of those options are appealing IMO.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I don't blame him. I just don't think he's worth the risk because I don't see a sufficient reward. IMO, the best case situation means that he plays well and we trade him for some nominal value. Worst case, he plays well, we re-sign him and he blows up like Artest or Marbury. Middle ground is...we cut him loose. None of those options are appealing IMO.
    I disagree, I think the best case is he learns from past mistakes and develops into a good person and fulfills his potential and we get a steal. Why do you label him someone who can't handle success as a grown man because he let his success get to his head as a kid? I just disagree that it's a risk because of what happened on a 18 and under USA team. I think you are letting the the Pacers past determine their future, which is always a mistake.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by CooperManning View Post
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    I don't understand...are you saying that a problem with Stephenson is that he will want a multi-million dollar contract if he succeeds? Is there an NBA player who doesn't? I think it will be incredibly fortunate if our 2nd round pick does well enough to command a high salary.

    How much of a "risk" is any second round pick, really?
    My concern is not that he will want big money. My concern is that drafting him is taking a needless risk that has limited potential reward. I think the Pacers are just impressed with what they believe is a steal in the second round. I hope they are right, but I don't think the story will end a happy one.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    I disagree, I think the best case is he learns from past mistakes and develops into a good person and fulfills his potential and we get a steal. Why do you label him someone who can't handle success as a grown man because he let his success get to his head as a kid? I just disagree that it's a risk because of what happened on a 18 and under USA team. I think you are letting the the Pacers past determine their future, which is always a mistake.
    I would give your first sentence about a 2% chance of happening. ...and I'm not labeling him as someone who cannot handle success as a grown man, because I don't think his type grows up. That's the problem. See Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury and Jamaal Tinsley for examples. I do wish him luck...and really, really want to believe you are right...but I don't believe it.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I would give your first sentence about a 2% chance of happening. ...and I'm not labeling him as someone who cannot handle success as a grown man, because I don't think his type grows up. That's the problem. See Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury and Jamaal Tinsley for examples. I do wish him luck...and really, really want to believe you are right...but I don't believe it.
    The dude hasn't played a single minute of NBA ball yet. Can we at least give him summer league before writing him off?
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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    What is summer league going to prove about (a) his ability to play in the NBA, (b) his ability to play PG in the NBA, (c) his ability to grow up (which was BnG's point), or (d) pretty much anything.

    Summer league is almost as overrated as individual pre-draft workouts.

    Maybe I should take the summer off and just let the loonies and crackpots take over.
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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    We really dont know at this point enuf to say hes gna be the pg of the future . He does have a great talent and this rookie yr will say a lot about him, well see if he can get his togther and also make the right plays. If he gets mins which he will eventually will over the course of whole season we'll see how he plays at the point. He could definately be a good contributer andland into into a bigger role in the future as a combo but maybe even point. But its also pretty possible that his head isnt together and he sits on the bench untill hes traded or let go. But for now ill give him the benefit if the doubt, he does have a lot of potential so lets see what he does with it

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    The dude hasn't played a single minute of NBA ball yet. Can we at least give him summer league before writing him off?
    You are welcome to give him summer league or whatever you like. I also respect your opinion on this. I just have a different one...one that is not interested in a repeat....or even a sniff of the last fiasco of a decade. I don't even like the reminder....and I don't think you need his type to win. Maybe I have a little more patience.

    If he surprises everyone by a) playing unselfishly, b) playing smart with the ball (including sharing the ball) and c) keeping out of trouble off the court for a couple solid years...all things he is known not to do...I will join everyone on the Lance Stephenson band wagon if there's another seat. For now, I wish you all well on the trip.

    BTW, what is the plan if he plays really well (at PG) during his first year? Isn't this what everyone wants? What is the next step? Do you sign that 4 year 8M/yr contract with him and hope he doesn't pull a Tinsley or blow up in your face the next year? I'm pretty risk tolerant and I don't care for that scenario...

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    I just wish people would actually watch him play before speaking on him. He averaged 11 shots per game in around 30 minutes a game. That is a shot about every 3 minutes. Geez, what a ball hog. He has trouble with shot selection. That is a completely different issue. His assist numbers are actually great for a freshman 2 guard, and I challenge someone to find a freshman SG with better assist numbers. And as far as I know Lance has never been in any real trouble. He was charged with sexual assault a few years back and the charges were dismissed. Sure you can just label it another athlete getting an unfair break, but the truth is none of us know the specifics of the incident and it could just as easily be a case of someone talking out of their rear end.

    BTW if he plays really well at PG I would have no problem signing him to a 4 year deal that pays him 2 million per season. And I would feel like a got a steal.
    Last edited by Taterhead; 07-03-2010 at 02:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    BTW, what is the plan if he plays really well (at PG) during his first year? Isn't this what everyone wants? What is the next step? Do you sign that 4 year 8M/yr contract with him and hope he doesn't pull a Tinsley or blow up in your face the next year? I'm pretty risk tolerant and I don't care for that scenario...
    You take him up on his freakin' team option or unguarantee'd second year, is what you do.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    I thought I read that the sexual abuse thing was him grabbing a girl's butt. Both he and the girl were teenagers. Not a huge deal from what I know so far, though certainly inappropriate. Just my opinion.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozwalt72 View Post
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    You take him up on his freakin' team option or unguarantee'd second year, is what you do.
    Then what? Take him up in terms of cutting him...or keeping him? If you keep him, are you ready to fork out 6-8M/yr after two years of good ball and behaviour? How is this different than Tinsley II?...at least in year 3 when you have to sign that contract?
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 07-03-2010 at 04:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Then what? Take him up in terms of cutting him...or keeping him? If you keep him, are you ready to fork out 6-8M/yr after two years of good ball and behaviour? How is this different than Tinsley II?...at least in year 3 when you have to sign that contract?
    If he's earned the contract....hell yes you do.

    A GM operating on fear of "maybe" isn't going to be in charge of a team very long. Would you let a player that has earned such a contract -at a position of need- just walk? If you are concerned about his behavior you try to trade him.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    We're all just going to have to wait and see. Hopefully he plays this week and we can at least have idea if it's even possible. I see both sides of the debate, and I am glad we are at least having the conversation. I don't have any compelling evidence for either side. You either like the idea or you don't. I know if he does succeed we will all be here chanting his name (ok maybe not all of us), if he fails his detractors will say see I told you so. I like the idea of him being able to play the position, but I also know his background regardless of how much the Pacers checked him out, raises some red flags. I like to think we are due for some good fortune and he will show maturity and the willingness to behave and take this opportunity and make something of it. In the end, time will tell, the problem is we have all been waiting such a long, long time.
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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Then what? Take him up in terms of cutting him...or keeping him? If you keep him, are you ready to fork out 6-8M/yr after two years of good ball and behaviour? How is this different than Tinsley II?...at least in year 3 when you have to sign that contract?
    I'm not worried about Stephenson's off-court behavior. It sounds like the Pacers vetted him harder literally than a player has ever been vetted before by an NBA team. Bird was stung hard by the Artest situation and wouldn't take a chance on the guy unless it had a more than reasonable chance of panning out. So he was dropped off a team for chemistry (not disciplinary) reason when he was 18 and supposedly grabbed some girl's *** in high school? Not enough to discount the guy in my opinion, if he had an extensive high school criminal record okay, but not a big deal to me.

    What worries me more is his on-court play. I am sure Lance has all the talent in the world, but he's at a make or break point in his basketball career where he needs to learn to be an unselfish player. He won't be learning that in Jim O'Brien's flunksketball system. Hopefully Lance just stays relatively level as a rookie player and can be convinced to buy into a system next year, where he may really blossom and turn into a good pro.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    somewhat off topic, but saw lance @ circle center today! Got a picture with him. i think i was the only person to recognize him :/ hopefully he can change that by playing well on the court

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by REL31 View Post
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    somewhat off topic, but saw lance @ circle center today! Got a picture with him. i think i was the only person to recognize him :/ hopefully he can change that by playing well on the court
    Did his eyes glow red and did he seem to have an overwhelming desire to eat babies?

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    I'm not worried about Stephenson's off-court behavior. It sounds like the Pacers vetted him harder literally than a player has ever been vetted before by an NBA team. Bird was stung hard by the Artest situation and wouldn't take a chance on the guy unless it had a more than reasonable chance of panning out. So he was dropped off a team for chemistry (not disciplinary) reason when he was 18 and supposedly grabbed some girl's *** in high school? Not enough to discount the guy in my opinion, if he had an extensive high school criminal record okay, but not a big deal to me.

    What worries me more is his on-court play. I am sure Lance has all the talent in the world, but he's at a make or break point in his basketball career where he needs to learn to be an unselfish player. He won't be learning that in Jim O'Brien's flunksketball system. Hopefully Lance just stays relatively level as a rookie player and can be convinced to buy into a system next year, where he may really blossom and turn into a good pro.

    I'm far less worried about Stephenson than I would be about someone like Tinsley or Stephen Jackson. I don't think Stephenson will get into bizarre shootouts at nightclubs or any of that type of nonsense. I'm mostly concerned that he doesn't develop any of the unbearable personality issues of someone like Francis, Starbury, or Rider. I think he's been hearing everyone around him tell him he's going to be the next Michael Jordan or something, but I think getting drafted in the 2nd round and facing some tough competition should help humble him a bit.

    He did rub me the wrong way with his interviews saying he's going to be a All-Star within a few years and seemed to think he's a gifted PG with no on-court evidence to back that up, but I'm happy to support him as long as I keep reading that he's behaving himself and not creating any problems on the team. I would have actually worried more about his ego had he been an absolute athletic freak and was drafted in the lottery. I think guys like "Franchise" were convinced that they came into the league so talented and skilled that they didn't need to bother trying to get any better because they thought they were already the best anyone could be. So he never got better, and no one could stand his arrogance and unpleasant personality.

    I think the Pacers did the right thing scrutinizing and investigating him so carefully. I'm going to do my best to give Lance the benefit of the doubt, which I trust he deserves based on the extensive background checks they performed. I wish I could get a peek at that psych report, though.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Then what? Take him up in terms of cutting him...or keeping him? If you keep him, are you ready to fork out 6-8M/yr after two years of good ball and behaviour? How is this different than Tinsley II?...at least in year 3 when you have to sign that contract?
    I think this may be my first post on here but these comments are just ridiculous. You're letting one incident to completely define this guy. You're worried that a SECOND round pick might turn out to be a good player. Think about that, because it doesn't make sense. It's almost like you're rooting against the guy - not because you don't like him, not because of his skill set, not because he went to Cincy and you like OSU, but because he might succeed and then he might jump into the stands and set back the franchise another 5 years. All because of one incident.

    That is completely backwards thinking and would get the Pacers nowhere. It's simple: if in this first year he's a bad apple - you cut him. If he plays well - you sign him. If he continues to play well and improve, you continue to sign him.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by REL31 View Post
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    somewhat off topic, but saw lance @ circle center today! Got a picture with him. i think i was the only person to recognize him :/ hopefully he can change that by playing well on the court
    Did he try to grab your ***? We need to start watching out for that since he's in town. j/k

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    We are rushing to judgement on this kid...he is young and probably a little immature but he has good potential for a second round pick.He has no guarantees from the Pacers. I can understand the concerns with his off-court issues, but alot of us didn't see those issues occuring before they happened. So who are we to rush to judgement on this kid before he has a chance to play?
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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    I've been watching a lot of video on him. I've watched a lot of video on Tyreke Evans to try to compare the two. Lance to me seems to be on that level.

    I believe with the right coach that he could be an all star point gaurd. He has handles and vision. His cross-over was at least effective at the college level.

    I saw in those videos a natural abillity to create. When have the Pacers had this type of talent?

    The hype surrounding "Born Ready" has probably gotten to me. But I have tried not to like the kid. Sure he may not be as well spoken as we would like our multi-million $ players to be he in Pacers-nation. And he may lack the fundamentals we prefer as well. I just can't get over the unique abilty he has to get to the rim (especially in the fast break).

    Until Lance gives me a reason not to be, I'm really excited about his future here as a Pacer. And I'm really hoping he turns out to be a point gaurd.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    Why not give the kid a shot at it? Let him play significant minutes the first half of the season backing up TJ, who would start. Split the numbers where he consistently get half a game and don't waver, regardless of the score or record. Why not? The kid has all of the talent in the world.

    This may kick that old knock on the kid saying that he has an ego a mile wide and does not work together well on a team. If the kid does poorly he could be a good SG in the rotation. If he does well, trade TJ at the deadline and make AJ the starter and Lance the back-up that logs serious minutes.

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    Default Re: Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    Isiah and Jalen thought that Jalen could play pg in the "Quick", too. That worked out great, too, didn't it? The difference, though, is the fact that Jalen was a very skilled scorer at the NBA level prior to conducting Isiah's experiment. Stephenson may or may not be skilled enough to even make the team.

    The weird thing is that O'B's statements regarding Stephenson even confirm his strategy that has a primary focus of having a scoring first pg who only looks to pass when he is cut off from an easy score. Exactly like TJ and all of the other guards who have played for O'B in the past have played, with Allen Iverson serving as his prototype for what a pg is supposed to be.

    I would rather see Dunleavy play pg than anybody we have, now, because he may have the courage to stand up to O'B and install a passing game starting at the point. I know he would be hopeless on defense, but we don't play much defense with O'B as coach anyway, so who cares?
    Apparently, after today's game, I was wrong about Stephenson.

    Go Lance!

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