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Thread: Pacers... Players in FA?

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Pacers... Players in FA?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    Honestly, I don't believe the Pacers are not going to make any moves until the Lebron/Wade/Bosh sweepstakes is over. At that point, other teams will be trying to get players to "fill in the holes". I'm pretty much under the impression that Bosh will be a package deal with either Wade or Lebron.
    I agree.
    IMO:
    -Bosh is all but a done in Mia w/ Wade.
    -The King can go to Mia or will have to team up w/ 2nd tier FA's or stay in Cle.
    -Amare & J.Johnson likely to end up in NY (both know DiAntoni's system).
    -Boozer to decied between NJ (w/ Lopez) or Chi (w/ Rose & team).

    So what does this mean for us?
    -If NJ strikes out, or is needing more "star" or "win now" assets, I would not be surprised to hear Harris/Favors for Granger/? talK to resurface. IMO, other then the PG Q for NJ, this makes sense for IN. I get the sense the NJ owner wants to win now, not wait on a project in Favors, esp if they land a Boozer or Amare.

    -Any team losing a FA will likely want to do a S&T. Talent in return will be OK, but not close to equil. They will either want to move some of those assets, or move some of their exsisting contracts for faster-expiring deals. This is where we can get involved if we feel the incoming talent is worth losing some '11 cap space. (ex. Tor may want to move Jack for exp if they aquire M.Chalmbers).

    I would not be surprised if there is already a deal or two in place w/ someone pending FA results! Our collection of talent & lack of urgency/concern post-draft could be explained by this. Something had to result form all those pre-draft trade discussions....
    "Larry Bird: You are Officially On the Clock! (3/24/08)"
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  2. #27
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    Default Re: Pacers... Players in FA?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    I agree.
    IMO:
    -Bosh is all but a done in Mia w/ Wade.
    -The King can go to Mia or will have to team up w/ 2nd tier FA's or stay in Cle.
    -Amare & J.Johnson likely to end up in NY (both know DiAntoni's system).
    -Boozer to decied between NJ (w/ Lopez) or Chi (w/ Rose & team).

    So what does this mean for us?
    -If NJ strikes out, or is needing more "star" or "win now" assets, I would not be surprised to hear Harris/Favors for Granger/? talK to resurface. IMO, other then the PG Q for NJ, this makes sense for IN. I get the sense the NJ owner wants to win now, not wait on a project in Favors, esp if they land a Boozer or Amare.

    -Any team losing a FA will likely want to do a S&T. Talent in return will be OK, but not close to equil. They will either want to move some of those assets, or move some of their exsisting contracts for faster-expiring deals. This is where we can get involved if we feel the incoming talent is worth losing some '11 cap space. (ex. Tor may want to move Jack for exp if they aquire M.Chalmbers).

    I would not be surprised if there is already a deal or two in place w/ someone pending FA results! Our collection of talent & lack of urgency/concern post-draft could be explained by this. Something had to result form all those pre-draft trade discussions....
    Pretty much. Indiana is pretty much a junkyard of players/contracts that other teams can use to fine tune themselves.

  3. #28

    Default Re: Pacers... Players in FA?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    I agree.
    IMO:
    -Bosh is all but a done in Mia w/ Wade.
    -The King can go to Mia or will have to team up w/ 2nd tier FA's or stay in Cle.
    -Amare & J.Johnson likely to end up in NY (both know DiAntoni's system).
    -Boozer to decied between NJ (w/ Lopez) or Chi (w/ Rose & team).

    So what does this mean for us?
    -If NJ strikes out, or is needing more "star" or "win now" assets, I would not be surprised to hear Harris/Favors for Granger/? talK to resurface. IMO, other then the PG Q for NJ, this makes sense for IN. I get the sense the NJ owner wants to win now, not wait on a project in Favors, esp if they land a Boozer or Amare.

    -Any team losing a FA will likely want to do a S&T. Talent in return will be OK, but not close to equil. They will either want to move some of those assets, or move some of their exsisting contracts for faster-expiring deals. This is where we can get involved if we feel the incoming talent is worth losing some '11 cap space. (ex. Tor may want to move Jack for exp if they aquire M.Chalmbers).

    I would not be surprised if there is already a deal or two in place w/ someone pending FA results! Our collection of talent & lack of urgency/concern post-draft could be explained by this. Something had to result form all those pre-draft trade discussions....
    I agree with you but that is a big question mark there. I just don't see Harris as more valueable than Granger to this team.

    Lets also not forget that we are also in win now mode too. Trading Granger is only going to cost us wins. I see Bird trying to get Maynor or Hill before trying to trade Granger.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Pacers... Players in FA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I agree with you but that is a big question mark there. I just don't see Harris as more valueable than Granger to this team.

    Lets also not forget that we are also in win now mode too. Trading Granger is only going to cost us wins. I see Bird trying to get Maynor or Hill before trying to trade Granger.
    Don't disagree either, but let play what if....
    What if n/y you have Harris & Favors ,w/ George now @ the 3, you have: Hibbert/Favors/George/Stephenson/Harris, w/ Hansbrough & Rush starting off your bench, & HUGE cap space is not bad place to be at all, IMO.

    I am not a "Trade Granger" guy, but I would have to think hard about this!
    "Larry Bird: You are Officially On the Clock! (3/24/08)"
    (Watching You Like A Hawk!)

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  6. #30
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    Default Re: Pacers... Players in FA?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    Don't disagree either, but let play what if....
    What if n/y you have Harris & Favors ,w/ George now @ the 3, you have: Hibbert/Favors/George/Stephenson/Harris, w/ Hansbrough & Rush starting off your bench, & HUGE cap space is not bad place to be at all, IMO.

    I am not a "Trade Granger" guy, but I would have to think hard about this!
    If Granger got us Favors and Harris...I would so do that. Not a huge fan of Harris, but I think Favors is gonna be good.

    Not sure how Paul would feel about his workout buddy getting traded so soon though.
    With the #3 pick in the 2015 draft, your Indiana Pacers!

  7. #31

    Default Re: Pacers... Players in FA?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    Don't disagree either, but let play what if....
    What if n/y you have Harris & Favors ,w/ George now @ the 3, you have: Hibbert/Favors/George/Stephenson/Harris, w/ Hansbrough & Rush starting off your bench, & HUGE cap space is not bad place to be at all, IMO.

    I am not a "Trade Granger" guy, but I would have to think hard about this!
    I can clearly see that you believe in this years draft more than I do. Seriously Stephenson starting ahead of Rush????

    In any case this move would depend on what Bird thought of George/Favors. IMO that lineup is 2-3 years away from winning. The exact time when Harris would have to be resigned.

  8. #32
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    Default Re: Pacers... Players in FA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I can clearly see that you believe in this years draft more than I do. Seriously Stephenson starting ahead of Rush????

    In any case this move would depend on what Bird thought of George/Favors. IMO that lineup is 2-3 years away from winning. The exact time when Harris would have to be resigned.
    My reason for Shephenson over Rush was more conversation starter then anything, but also to be honest I'm not sure Rush is here at the start of '11 (Then again nor is Stephensonfor that matter). Don't read to much into that other then Stephenson could have more of a starter mentality then Rush has, thus the swap on my projection.

    I agree w/ the Harris but we would have his Bird rights & if all goes well, the young core around him would be pretty good ( ) - just entering their prime. He may not want to leave. Besides, someone's contract will always be up, you can't construct a team by being afraid someone might leave 3 yrs from now.
    "Larry Bird: You are Officially On the Clock! (3/24/08)"
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  9. #33

    Default Re: Pacers... Players in FA?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    My reason for Shephenson over Rush was more conversation starter then anything, but also to be honest I'm not sure Rush is here at the start of '11 (Then again nor is Stephensonfor that matter). Don't read to much into that other then Stephenson could have more of a starter mentality then Rush has, thus the swap on my projection.

    I agree w/ the Harris but we would have his Bird rights & if all goes well, the young core around him would be pretty good ( ) - just entering their prime. He may not want to leave. Besides, someone's contract will always be up, you can't construct a team by being afraid someone might leave 3 yrs from now.
    When its your core player then ya you do. I mean look at the FA's market this year. Every team is sweating it out including Boston now.

    I can see the best case scenario with the trade you proposed being a OKC team in 2 years. The worst case is Minny or some other lottery team.

    Don't get me wrong I get it. We need a good/great pg but its silly to make a lateral move IMO. If we upgrade the pg position and don't have to break the bank to do it then we will have enough money in 2011 to round out the roster.

  10. #34
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    Default Re: Pacers... Players in FA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    When its your core player then ya you do. I mean look at the FA's market this year. Every team is sweating it out including Boston now.

    I can see the best case scenario with the trade you proposed being a OKC team in 2 years. The worst case is Minny or some other lottery team.

    Don't get me wrong I get it. We need a good/great pg but its silly to make a lateral move IMO. If we upgrade the pg position and don't have to break the bank to do it then we will have enough money in 2011 to round out the roster.
    I respectfully disagree that you worry about a player 3 yrs down the road. Things can change very fast in this league. 3 yrs is a long time, & if your plan is to improve, then you have to have confidence. Look how 1/2 a season have NO fans willing to give up CP3 because they have Collison. Look how quickly teams like Por or Den turned around w/ Roy & Mello. Win now, worry about "what if" later!
    Also, you will be able to pay DH more then anyone else, & can get assets in return if you do a S&T. I don't get how you can see Harris wanting to leave when we know 1/2 our roster (if not more) will be different then, & we could be a rising team in the East in 3 yrs.

    This is a 2 for 1, not just a Harris deal. If we are talking Harris vs. Granger, then I agree w/ you that you pass on this deal, but you have not once mentioned or considered the talent of Favors in ant rebuttle. Favors is why I do this deal, for no other. If you can get a potential all-star talent who could be a stud PF for 10+ yrs, & Harris for Danny, you do that. (I have not even mentioned George's potential, who could be DG2 or better (or not I know...)).
    "Larry Bird: You are Officially On the Clock! (3/24/08)"
    (Watching You Like A Hawk!)

  11. #35

    Default Re: Pacers... Players in FA?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    I respectfully disagree that you worry about a player 3 yrs down the road. Things can change very fast in this league. 3 yrs is a long time, & if your plan is to improve, then you have to have confidence. Look how 1/2 a season have NO fans willing to give up CP3 because they have Collison. Look how quickly teams like Por or Den turned around w/ Roy & Mello. Win now, worry about "what if" later!
    Also, you will be able to pay DH more then anyone else, & can get assets in return if you do a S&T. I don't get how you can see Harris wanting to leave when we know 1/2 our roster (if not more) will be different then, & we could be a rising team in the East in 3 yrs.

    This is a 2 for 1, not just a Harris deal. If we are talking Harris vs. Granger, then I agree w/ you that you pass on this deal, but you have not once mentioned or considered the talent of Favors in ant rebuttle. Favors is why I do this deal, for no other. If you can get a potential all-star talent who could be a stud PF for 10+ yrs, & Harris for Danny, you do that. (I have not even mentioned George's potential, who could be DG2 or better (or not I know...)).
    So you are comparing the Pacers situation to Denver getting lucky with one of the best draft classes ever and NO bad finacial planning. Personally I highly doubt they get rid of CP3 because a rookie showed some promise.

    I am sort of confused with what you are saying. Highlighted above you are saying "win now worry about the other stuff later" right... Do you honestly think that a team featuring 2 rookies (Favors + George) is going to win now.

    At best you are hoping that the Pacers are a rising team in 3 years with Favors and Paul George working out. Mind you JOB will probably limit their minutes the first year hence prolonging their develop. You may think Favors is the best pf since Garnett but the dude is raw and he will take a lot of time to develop.

    I haven't mentioned potential for 2 reasons. One it means nothing until its proven and second its what the Pacers have been saying about every rookie they have drafted or traded for (WIlliams, Bender, Tinsley, Harrison, etc etc etc.

    Now the Pacers finally drafted a guy who panned out and we are suppose to trade him away for Harris? A guy who couldn't win more than 12 games and directed his team to the 4th worst record ever???? This being with a true center in Brook Lopez. You can rebutle and say it was of bad coaching but how is the coaching here?? How would Mr. Harris do with JOB?

    I respect that you see all star potential in George and Favors but I am just not willing to risk this franchise leaving do to "possible" potential.

  12. #36
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    Default Re: Pacers... Players in FA?

    FYI- the Draft day Granger to Nets (Harris and Favors) has been reported to be nothing but a complete made up story/ smokescreen... the two teams never even talked about such a deal...
    "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

  13. #37
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    Default Re: Pacers... Players in FA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    So you are comparing the Pacers situation to Denver getting lucky with one of the best draft classes ever and NO bad finacial planning. Personally I highly doubt they get rid of CP3 because a rookie showed some promise.
    My point was to merely to show how fast opinions of a fan base or the fortunes of a franchise can change quickly. You were worried about what may or may not be an issue (resigning Harris) 3 years in the future. My point was worry about the now, & the what if's later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I am sort of confused with what you are saying. Highlighted above you are saying "win now worry about the other stuff later" right... Do you honestly think that a team featuring 2 rookies (Favors + George) is going to win now.
    Probably worded poorly, but ment to imply the same as above. Worrying about what Harris may or may not want to do in 3 yrs is not a reason to not do a deal. Even 2 yrs. would be silly. I will acknowledge the wins would be harder, but IMO the mentality & expectations of the fan base would be different. Watching losses w/ Murph/Dun/TJ getting 30-40 min/gm is one thing, watching a team w/ the youth & potential that the lineup mention would have is another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    At best you are hoping that the Pacers are a rising team in 3 years with Favors and Paul George working out. Mind you JOB will probably limit their minutes the first year hence prolonging their develop. You may think Favors is the best pf since Garnett but the dude is raw and he will take a lot of time to develop.
    My best guess is that w/ Murph gone & the writting on the wall, JO'B would not be something I would worry about. With the young talent & cap space we would have, I don't think finding a coach would be an issue. I also doubt Larry would let JO'B make it long if he was sitting the people who the fans would be coming to see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I haven't mentioned potential for 2 reasons. One it means nothing until its proven and second its what the Pacers have been saying about every rookie they have drafted or traded for (WIlliams, Bender, Tinsley, Harrison, etc etc etc.
    Just because we missed in the past does not mean we would again. Williams was a poor decision based on character not talent, Bender had huge talent but no knees & no frame for his position, Tinsley self distructed after his mother died, & Harrison was a late 1st & a shot at getting lucky on an big w/ skills. While disapointing, these players have nothing to do w/ Favors or George.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Now the Pacers finally drafted a guy who panned out and we are suppose to trade him away for Harris? A guy who couldn't win more than 12 games and directed his team to the 4th worst record ever???? This being with a true center in Brook Lopez. You can rebutle and say it was of bad coaching but how is the coaching here?? How would Mr. Harris do with JOB?
    Your best argument yet!
    Again though, it is Harris & Favors, not just Harris. Not sure what happened in NJ, but I do know Harris was hurt for the first 1/4 of the season, & by then the hole was deep. Can not say NJ looked like a team who wanted to win, as tanking seemed like an early call by TPTB in NJ. As to why move Granger, lets start w/ SF is an easier position to fill then PG. lets second that w/ elite bigs are almost as hard to find - something we would be counting on favors to be. George has a similar game w/ similar size & he is young & on the roster already. Harris also has a smaller contract w/ less yrs at a more desired position if things don't work out. Granger is entering his prime now & the core would not be ready when he is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I respect that you see all star potential in George and Favors but I am just not willing to risk this franchise leaving do to "possible" potential.
    Can't argue w/ you, as I'm not convinced myself, just making the argument.
    "Larry Bird: You are Officially On the Clock! (3/24/08)"
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    Default Re: Pacers... Players in FA?

    Quote Originally Posted by tadscout View Post
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    FYI- the Draft day Granger to Nets (Harris and Favors) has been reported to be nothing but a complete made up story/ smokescreen... the two teams never even talked about such a deal...
    So we've been told....

    Not saying we/ they did or did not, but it would make some sense for both.
    Truth is, we will likely never know for sure, & it is in the best interest for the teams to say what they are saying now....
    "Larry Bird: You are Officially On the Clock! (3/24/08)"
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