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Thread: State of the state

  1. #76
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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBGoode View Post
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    You are so far off base it is not worth my time to discuss it further. BTW, don't make racist comments if you don't want someone to call you out for making them.
    also you have made a grand total of 127 posts in 3 years so dont act like you know me

    also how can a white man be racist towards another white person?

    end of discussion , and your blind
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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I've been over this so many times that I can't even bring myself to doing it again.

    So let me see, Bird say's he was told about the trade by Walsh. Walsh has said in an inteverview with Vescey that he did the trade and did it quickly so no rumors or bidding wars would ensue. Chris Mullen in an interview stated that he dealt directly with Donnie Walsh on this and that the trade was wrapped up in two phone calls.

    Yet because Murphy and Dunleavy appear to be players you think that Bird would like you believe that he made the trade.

    Other than Travis Diener or Saras can you please tell me what other players Bird has brought in here that are offense only players? I could argue that Diener was just a low cost end of the bench throw in and that Saras while a huge mistake was considered one of the top free agent signings of the summer. But neither counter D. Jones, S. Jones, Rush, Hibbert, Hansbrough, McRoberts, Jack, Ford, Watson, etc. in showing that Bird does not take players who at least play both sides of the floor.

    I just don't have the time or energy to go hunting all of the articles again.

    Oh one other thing that I did forget to mention, we all know that Walsh was also under some economic pressures for this trade as well as a major (at the time anyway) team sponser was threatening to pull out if Jackson was not removed from the team.
    Peck,

    It doesnt matter if someone went on the record or not. In public is one thing , in private can be totally different.

    If you believe that Bird had zero input in the Murph/Dun trade thats fine and I respect your right to differ.

    I personally believe he had a lot of input in the descion but who knows.

    If there was "pressure from a sponsor" to trade Jackson, then again why take both Murph and dun?

    As far as defensive players Bird signed that was this year only (to my knowledge) and I , as you said dont have time to pull threads either, I am positive Bird wanted to implement a fast pace , crowd pleasing brand of basketball

    I mean nothing against you, but I believe it is ok to have a difference of opinon, and not necessarly be worked up at the other person for not sharing your view
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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    also you have made a grand total of 127 posts in 3 years so dont act like you know me

    also how can a white man be racist towards another white person?

    end of discussion , and your blind
    Yep, and over 1200 posts in your short time on the board. Busy man, there 90's. I have read enough of your posts to understand what you are all about, so yes end of discussion.

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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Diogu - went from centerpiece of an 8 player trade to a throw-in on a draft day trade - bad.
    Wait a minute, are you blaming Bird for Ike Diogu never amounting to anything even though Bird didn't trade for him?

    If anything, I would say you swap him for Josh McRoberts (along with turning Bayless into Rush and Jack).

    I'd rather have Josh than Ike right now.

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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Despite the fact that we have Chris Mullen on record stating that he dealt solely with Donnie Walsh on this trade.

    Despite the fact that Donnie Walsh has gone on record saying that he made this trade.

    Simply put Donnie Walsh was trying to do a Jermaine O'Neal part 2 in that trade and it simply did not work.

    Never forget that the hidden gem in that trade was Ike Diogu, at least that is what Walsh was hoping for anyway. Murphy & Dunleavy were the requirements for making that trade, they were not the desired pieces.
    Don't think so. Diogu was a seldom played kid with some potential. Dunleavy was the star attraction, then Murphy, then Diogu.

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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    I am sorry , but did I say that

    No I did not

    I have said I thought Bird rushed to "appease the fans" and took on two players that the GS fans thanked God were gone

    It was a dumb move

    And for the record, please dont race bait me, it is not for this board

    Thanks
    GS fans are idiots.
    Dunleavy is a very good player who GS chose to draft too high. not his fault. And if he hadn't been injured most of his time here we'd all love him. Sure did the first season here. He does all the "little things" that help teams win games. He's just not the super star that everyone 'expected' him to be, so they boo'd him.

  8. #82
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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Wait a minute, are you blaming Bird for Ike Diogu never amounting to anything even though Bird didn't trade for him?

    If anything, I would say you swap him for Josh McRoberts (along with turning Bayless into Rush and Jack).

    I'd rather have Josh than Ike right now.
    I've got a hard time believing that was maximum value for Ike, but he didn't exactly prove himself in Portland. I can't figure out what went wrong.

    You know the old saying, better to be silent and let them think you're an idiot than to open your mouth and prove them right?

    Well, in Ike's case, once we figured out that he wasn't what we hoped he would become, we needed to market his "upside" not our "disappointment".

    That's minor in the grand scheme of evaluating Bird's track record, but just like giving Dhantay Jones four years when nobody else would, giving away Diogu for the right to trade down (!!!) for Rush and a one-year rental on Jarret Jack was a bizarre decision.
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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBGoode View Post
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    Yep, and over 1200 posts in your short time on the board. Busy man, there 90's. I have read enough of your posts to understand what you are all about, so yes end of discussion.
    Maybe that's because you have been here forever and keep coming back after getting banned, Country Boy...I personally can't wait until you are banned again.

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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    I've got a hard time believing that was maximum value for Ike, but he didn't exactly prove himself in Portland. I can't figure out what went wrong.

    You know the old saying, better to be silent and let them think you're an idiot than to open your mouth and prove them right?

    Well, in Ike's case, once we figured out that he wasn't what we hoped he would become, we needed to market his "upside" not our "disappointment".
    We have 0 evidence that Larry called people up and said "Hey, Ike's been a bust in Indiana. Want him?"

    Plus, it's not like POR is run by idiots. They knew what Ike was worth, and that's Josh McRoberts. They essentially swapped one another's backup power forward with potential that may or may not be actualized later.

    That's minor in the grand scheme of evaluating Bird's track record, but just like giving Dhantay Jones four years when nobody else would, giving away Diogu for the right to trade down (!!!) for Rush and a one-year rental on Jarret Jack was a bizarre decision.
    Bayless for Rush/Jack was a good trade. He wasn't necessarily a rental when we acquired him.

    I've always tried to judge a trade by what it meant at the time it was made. At that time, it was far from a given that Jack was going to move on.

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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBGoode View Post
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    Yep, and over 1200 posts in your short time on the board. Busy man, there 90's. I have read enough of your posts to understand what you are all about, so yes end of discussion.
    Nope, I get the last word

    If I am so bad, why have you read my posts?

    If I post a lot are you inferring I am wasting my time?

    The word racist is a very strong word to throw around, and for you to accuse me of that is uncalled for, and I asked respectfully if you had a problem with me then man up and bring it to me in private

    but you choose not to, so I think that reflects more poorly on you
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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBGoode View Post
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    You are so far off base it is not worth my time to discuss it further. BTW, don't make racist comments if you don't want someone to call you out for making them.
    I had to re-read this to realize you'd shifted from accusing 90's of saying Bird was racist, to now throwing the racist label directly at him. Considering how inappropriate that is, how upset I'd be if I were 90's right now, how way off base you are either way for throwing those accusations out over what he wrote, and not to mention your history on top of it all, I'm calling it a career for this alias.

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    Default Re: State of the state

    Bayless for Rush/Jack was a good trade. He wasn't necessarily a rental when we acquired him.

    I've always tried to judge a trade by what it meant at the time it was made. At that time, it was far from a given that Jack was going to move on.
    Thats a very good point. We , without Jammal had TJ and Diener on the roster so getting a very capable backup PG, form a playoff contending team, I think was a good move at the time, I will also add if any of these trade rumors have truth to them, then San Antonio, Charlotte with two HOF coaches have seemed to want Rush in any trade there involved in speaks well for him.

    I also think Dahanty was a good move, we had to overpay to get him. There was no way that he would have left a team that was just in the WCF to come to the Pacers without overpaying

    Plus is it a coincidence that the Nuggets were worse this year ( even before George Karl got sick)
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    Default Re: State of the state

    Right, but for Portland to trade up to get Bayless, they needed to give us players (Jack, McBob). Why did we need to throw in Ike?

    Then again, trading "Ike for McBob" is nowhere near as bad as drafting him at #9.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  17. #89
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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I had to re-read this to realize you'd shifted from accusing 90's of saying Bird was racist, to now throwing the racist label directly at him. Considering how inappropriate that is, how upset I'd be if I were 90's right now, how way off base you are either way for throwing those accusations out over what he wrote, and not to mention your history on top of it all, I'm calling it a career for this alias.
    Hicks,

    You rock man. I think your fair across the board

    I am upset with myself because I should have been the bigger man and just walked away

    Anyway thanks for the support bro
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  18. #90

    Default Re: State of the state

    Just the right thing to do. No one needs to be labeled a racist unfairly and i don't think anything you said deserved that.

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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by MLB007 View Post
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    Don't think so. Diogu was a seldom played kid with some potential. Dunleavy was the star attraction, then Murphy, then Diogu.
    My that has a ring of familiarity to it. Did you happen to read the part where I said that Walsh was trying to do Jermaine O'Neal part 2? You know seldom played kid with some potential?


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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Right, but for Portland to trade up to get Bayless, they needed to give us players (Jack, McBob). Why did we need to throw in Ike?

    Then again, trading "Ike for McBob" is nowhere near as bad as drafting him at #9.
    The trade was #11 for #13/Jack. Ike was needed as cap filler, as was McBob. Neither had any value, whatsoever, other than as cap filler.

    If each had been abducted by aliens in transit, it would have had no impact on the deal, nor the future of either franchise.

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  23. #93
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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Peck,

    It doesnt matter if someone went on the record or not. In public is one thing , in private can be totally different.

    If you believe that Bird had zero input in the Murph/Dun trade thats fine and I respect your right to differ.

    I personally believe he had a lot of input in the descion but who knows.

    If there was "pressure from a sponsor" to trade Jackson, then again why take both Murph and dun?

    As far as defensive players Bird signed that was this year only (to my knowledge) and I , as you said dont have time to pull threads either, I am positive Bird wanted to implement a fast pace , crowd pleasing brand of basketball

    I mean nothing against you, but I believe it is ok to have a difference of opinon, and not necessarly be worked up at the other person for not sharing your view
    This is why they have the flat earth society I guess.

    Look if you are just trying to point out that people can differ on opinions then yes I get that, in fact I have advocated that for years.

    However what you are doing is not differing on opinion. You are claiming that someone is lying. Now you aren't saying lying but if you are saying that Donnie, Chris and Larry are involved in some grand cover up scheme to keep Larry from being involved in this trade.

    So therefor you are calling one of them if not all of them liars.

    So to that part I ask, why?

    What benefit is it to any of them, save Bird, to deny his involvement in this?

    I just don't get it. Your not even arguing logic here, you are just saying you don't believe the evidence because, well because you know better I guess?


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  25. #94

    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    This is why they have the flat earth society I guess.

    Look if you are just trying to point out that people can differ on opinions then yes I get that, in fact I have advocated that for years.

    However what you are doing is not differing on opinion. You are claiming that someone is lying. Now you aren't saying lying but if you are saying that Donnie, Chris and Larry are involved in some grand cover up scheme to keep Larry from being involved in this trade.

    So therefor you are calling one of them if not all of them liars.

    So to that part I ask, why?

    What benefit is it to any of them, save Bird, to deny his involvement in this?

    I just don't get it. Your not even arguing logic here, you are just saying you don't believe the evidence because, well because you know better I guess?
    There could be a number of reasons why Bird was shielded and one that comes to mind is that the trade was going to be unpopular and as the new guy Bird was (as the Walsh heir) to be insulated from the criticism. To call this lying is a little over the top. It's called the taking the rap for a tough no-win situation.

  26. #95

    Default Re: State of the state

    I'd forgotten all about the Diogu aspect of that GS deal. Sheesh.
    As far as I'm concerned, any GM dumb enough to consider that
    guy the 'hidden gem' of ANY trade should be banned from any
    affiliation with the NBA.

    Diogu had the hoops-IQ of a frickin' snail !
    Last edited by Hillman's 'Fro'; 06-11-2010 at 08:34 PM.

  27. #96
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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Peck,

    It doesnt matter if someone went on the record or not. In public is one thing , in private can be totally different.
    I think you are being completely obtuse here. You're just making stuff up and ignoring hard facts for something that COULD have happened. In litigation, this is called "daydream chasing".

    The facts are clear, the facts are convincing the facts come from multiple sources.

    In this instance, you are wrong.
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  29. #97
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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    This is why they have the flat earth society I guess.

    Look if you are just trying to point out that people can differ on opinions then yes I get that, in fact I have advocated that for years.

    However what you are doing is not differing on opinion. You are claiming that someone is lying. Now you aren't saying lying but if you are saying that Donnie, Chris and Larry are involved in some grand cover up scheme to keep Larry from being involved in this trade.

    So therefor you are calling one of them if not all of them liars.

    So to that part I ask, why?

    What benefit is it to any of them, save Bird, to deny his involvement in this?

    I just don't get it. Your not even arguing logic here, you are just saying you don't believe the evidence because, well because you know better I guess?
    Not that I believe it but the only possible reason (I can think of) for giving Bird that level of plausible deniability would be to try and insulate or distance him from the argument that he wants a team of white players. ...Because otherwise this would be exhibit A.

    ...I'm not saying I believe that.... I just don't know how else anyone could not believe the paper trail of quotes that are out there (saying Bird wasn't involved).
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  30. #98
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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Not that I believe it but the only possible reason (I can think of) for giving Bird that level of plausible deniability would be to try and insulate or distance him from the argument that he wants a team of white players. ...Because otherwise this would be exhibit A.

    ...I'm not saying I believe that.... I just don't know how else anyone could not believe the paper trail of quotes that are out there (saying Bird wasn't involved).
    Of course, once he took over completely and then drafted and signed nothing but white players the deniability would have been blown.

    Wait, he didn't do that either...
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  32. #99
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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Of course, once he took over completely and then drafted and signed nothing but white players the deniability would have been blown.

    Wait, he didn't do that either...
    Just so it's clear... I think Bird was largely a figurehead while Walsh was here and a sounding board at best. So I think Walsh did the heavy lifting. I'm not sure anyone is doing heavy lifting now.

    But if someone wants to believe that Bird was heavily involved in the GS trade against everything that was written on the subject then I was posting one hypothetical answer to the question "Why would the particulars create this smoke screen".

    I suppose someone could argue it's because the team knew it was a bad deal (or very potentially a bad deal) and so wanted to insulate Bird from that fallout when he would soon be taking the reins from Walsh. But if they were that sure it was a bad deal, why do it?

    I think the best answer is Walsh did it and Bird was the 3rd mascot for most of that time... Boomer, Bowser, and Bird. Now, was the one mascot already cut by then? Yes... pretty sure he was... it was at least the season prior when it was Boomer, Bowser, Bender, and Bird!
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    Default Re: State of the state

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    This is why they have the flat earth society I guess.

    Look if you are just trying to point out that people can differ on opinions then yes I get that, in fact I have advocated that for years.

    However what you are doing is not differing on opinion. You are claiming that someone is lying. Now you aren't saying lying but if you are saying that Donnie, Chris and Larry are involved in some grand cover up scheme to keep Larry from being involved in this trade.

    So therefor you are calling one of them if not all of them liars.

    So to that part I ask, why?

    What benefit is it to any of them, save Bird, to deny his involvement in this?

    I just don't get it. Your not even arguing logic here, you are just saying you don't believe the evidence because, well because you know better I guess?

    Peck

    What evidence are you referring to?

    Because Walsh said it is has to be true?

    I think lying is not the right word here but more like what business do all the time, which is to be politically correct and to look good in the public eye

    I cant believe that if Bird worked for the organization, he had no input on that trade.

    you have your version, and i have mine

    neither of us were in the room at the time
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