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Thread: college conference musical chairs

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    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default college conference musical chairs

    You know, I do my best to ignore this stuff, but it's gotten to the point where I think it's serious.

    What the hell is going on?

    You've got the Big 12 threatening Nebraska and Missouri, you've got Texas threatening to go West and take the entire Big 12 south with them, and you've got the Big 10 talking to Austin and Storrs and just about every frakin' school in between. I just read a blog on IndyStar (from a J&C writer, natch) saying the only way to stop Armageddon is if ND would just wise up and join the Big 10, before the Pac 10, Big 10, and ACC go hexadecimal and the Irish don't have a Big East to play in anymore.

    :brainmelt:

    I guess I should have seen this coming when freaking Boston College went to the ACC. And don't get me started about the Big Ten Network. I don't care how much money it makes, the things a joke. Does anybody watch this? Anybody? No wonder it makes so much money, all it is is a bunch of junk shot by the school's Comm kids for free, and then they charge us an arm and a leg for it. Aaarghhh!

    Anyway, I digress. Thoughts?

    [edit] I just realized, with my hexadecimal comment, the Big 10 has to expand. It's the only way to make their moniker fit. Right now they're the Big 0xB. (Can you tell I'm studying IPv6?)

    Last edited by Kegboy; 06-08-2010 at 09:22 AM.
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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    It's pretty interesting that's for sure. I think Texas holds all the cards. They are a cash gold mine, and of course Notre Dame also has a lot of power from a financial standpoint, but I think everyone is tired of their posturing and waiting on them to finally commit.

    I think it's incredibly interesting that the two conferences who have been ripped on relentlessly recently for being weak (the Big Ten and Pac 10) appear to be in the power positions.

    Whereas, the Big 12, who has traditionally been viewed as THE most complete conference is being torn apart from the inside, and the SEC is just kind of hanging out and we haven't heard a single thing from them.

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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    And don't get me started about the Big Ten Network. I don't care how much money it makes, the things a joke. Does anybody watch this? Anybody? No wonder it makes so much money, all it is is a bunch of junk shot by the school's Comm kids for free, and then they charge us an arm and a leg for it. Aaarghhh!

    Anyway, I digress. Thoughts?
    I'm a Purdue alum, so naturally I'd be more inclined to watch the Big Ten Network than your average person, but I happen to think it is incredible. When I lived out west I was still able to get my Big Ten fix. Now that I'm back in Indy, I would still see most Purdue games, but now I don't have to worry about it. Every game is televised. I have no complaints, but I would never even consider not having DirecTV in my house, no matter where I live, so the cost does not bother me.

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    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    ND doesn't hold any cards. I know one thing though. The Big East guys absolutely HATE the ACC guys for taking Miami and BC. Let's say Texas bolts to the Pac 10 and takes all of those teams with the. If that happens and I were the SEC, I'd immediately be on the phone getting Florida on board so I could jump in and make Florida State and Miami an offer they can't refuse and get that state locked down. Then the ACC can poach the cream of the crop of what's left of the Big East. That would leave ND with no place to play practically forcing them to join the Big Ten for all sports. The Big Ten then invites Mizzou and Nebraska, maybe Kansas too. The Big 12 dissolves in this scenario leaving one of the lesser conferences like the Mountain West as their most likely destination. Whew! What a whirlwind!

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    Member thewholefnshow31's Avatar
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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    When there was just rumblings about this I knew the Big Ten was going to do something big. They were getting killed because they were not playing that last when when everyone was playing their conference championships and the voters forget the Big Ten teams when it comes to the BCS Bowls. You have to play a conference game becuase voters have the memory of an ant.

    As an Indiana resident and ND fan I hope ND smartens up and joins the Big Ten. The Big East is about to be ripped to shreds and all the other sports at ND will suffer just to keep ND football independent. Just bite the bullet and join the Big Ten.

    I am suprised that one pull of the thread and the Big 12 would be gone.

    I would love to see Miami and Florida State join the SEC. Talk about a power conference.

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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    Nebraska has supposedly agreed to join the Big 10.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5268408

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    Member Wu-Gambino's Avatar
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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    So, if I understand this correctly, we will probably see four power conferences of 18 to 20 teams.

    Does this mean we might see a Big Ten with:

    - Nebraska (already done I suppose)
    - Iowa State (instate rivals are in the Big Ten)
    - Kansas (considered a Midwestern state, makes more sense than SEC or Pac 10)
    - Kansas State (same as Kansas)
    - Missouri (same as Kansas)

    Then you factor in potential Big East schools, maybe 2 to 4. I'd be guessing the candidates would be:

    Notre Dame
    Pitt (the two most mentioned with strong basketball and football programs)

    Louisville
    West Virginia
    Cincinnati (not sure if these three are up to the academic standards that the Big Ten claims to be a requirement)

    It will be interesting regardless.

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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    Kansas is in an interesting position - neither the Big Ten nor the Pac-10 seem to have any interest in inviting them to the party (for the moment anyway). I guess it proves that no one making the decisions for these conferences cares about anything but football.

    As far as the academic standard goes, all eleven Big Ten schools are members of the Association of American Universities (an organization of 61 leading research universities). I'd guess the schools most likely to be considered by the Big Ten would be too, like: Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Pitt, Rutgers and Syracuse (Vandy and Virginia seem less likely but I suppose could still be considered).

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    Member Wu-Gambino's Avatar
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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    Kansas had a solid football team a few years back; it seems like they would be added for the sake that they have one of the best programs in college basketball historically and currently. Adding them and Kansas State would make the Big Ten right up there with the Big East and ACC for best conference for college basketball.

    I am completely ignorant of the finances of college athletics, is college football really the only thing that matters? I know it is the most profitable, but wouldn't basketball matter to some degree?

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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    Quote Originally Posted by Wu-Gambino View Post
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    Kansas had a solid football team a few years back; it seems like they would be added for the sake that they have one of the best programs in college basketball historically and currently. Adding them and Kansas State would make the Big Ten right up there with the Big East and ACC for best conference for college basketball.

    I am completely ignorant of the finances of college athletics, is college football really the only thing that matters? I know it is the most profitable, but wouldn't basketball matter to some degree?
    Depends on the school. I know at PSU three sports make money, football, mens bball and i believe the third is womens bball. I wouldnt be surprised is womens volleyball makes money now too. My one teacher did research on this a few years ago so thats when my info is from. The football program brings in enough money to run the entire athletic department though. Thats why they try for 8 home games, a minimum of 7.

    My dream list for the Big Ten would be the following:

    Texas - most profitable school when it comes to sports and strong in many sports
    ND - obvious reasons, plus I would love to beat them on a regular basis.
    Nebraska - seems like a good fit, glad they are joining. got a history that will fit in with Big Ten Schools
    Missouri - not flashy, but always puts out a solid team
    Kansas - mainly want them for basketball. Adding them to the mix would be awesome
    Pitt - mainly to shut up their fans that think they are on par with PSU, plus a good bball school
    Syracuse - basketball and academics (yes i said academics)

    What I think is most realistic is Nebraska (duh), Missouri, Pitt, Syracuse. Kansas depends on if Texas leaves the Big 12. If they do I think the Big Ten is their first spot to land.

    Texas is interesting. They could make more money in the Big Ten. But the Pac 10 has USC and playing them regularly is something that is good. Honestly right now I don't see Texas leaving. I don't really know why, but to me it just doesn't seem like they will fit in with either the Pac 10 or Big Ten.

    Notre Dame is probably going to be feeling left behind and then will join the Big Ten.

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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    Penn State is part of the Big Ten with no real "hated rival" other than say Ohio State and for the Buckeyes its all about the Wolverines. To boost rivalries and regional interest a Pitt or Syracuse makes sense. Otherwise you have the Lions travelling long distances all the time....Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc, whereas those schools are somewhat clustered and only travel to PS occassionally.

    This ma sound trite but adding ND would place 3 schools within the same state in the Big 10....would that be seen as too much regional influence?
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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    Penn State is part of the Big Ten with no real "hated rival" other than say Ohio State and for the Buckeyes its all about the Wolverines. To boost rivalries and regional interest a Pitt or Syracuse makes sense. Otherwise you have the Lions travelling long distances all the time....Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc, whereas those schools are somewhat clustered and only travel to PS occassionally.

    This ma sound trite but adding ND would place 3 schools within the same state in the Big 10....would that be seen as too much regional influence?
    Here's a breakdown of miles from Indy to other schools.

    Indy to Bloomington, IN is 52 miles.
    Indy to West Lafayette, IN is 66 miles.
    Indy to South Bend, IN is 138 miles.
    Indy to Champaign-Urbana, IL is 125 miles.
    Indy to Columbus, OH is 175 miles.
    Indy to Evanston, IL is 199 miles.
    Indy to Lansing, MI is 254 miles.
    Indy to Ann Arbor, MI is 277 miles.
    Indy to Madison, WI is 331 miles.
    Indy to Iowa City, IA is 365 miles.
    Indy to State College, PA is 511 miles.
    Indy to Minneapolis, MN is 593 miles.
    Indy to Lincoln, NE is 641 miles.


    I think now to counter balance the geographic disparity, you need to invite a more eastern team.

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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    The Big 10 wants Rutgers and Syracuse badly so they can break their network into the NYC market. So, Nebraska is already in and the Big 12 is dissolving. Syracuse and Rutgers are going to get invited. I think Rutgers probably accepts straight away and Syracuse thinks about it before deciding to join. So now you're at 14 teams. Then, the best schools in the Big East will all get invites from other conferences. Some will accept, gutting the Big East. This forces ND's hand wo then requests to be invited to the Big Ten party, which is now at 15 teams. The Big Ten can now get to 16 or if it wants 18, by inviting more of the Big 12 teams, Likely Missouri. If they want to get to 18, Kansas and Kansas St. will also get invites.

    That's a hell of a conference in both football and basketball if that's how it plays out.
    Last edited by travmil; 06-10-2010 at 08:37 AM.

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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    The Big 10 wants Rutgers and Syracuse badly so they can break their network into the NYC market. So, Nebraska is already in and the Big 12 is dissolving. Syracuse and Rutgers are going to get invited. I think Rutgers probably accepts straight away and Syracuse thinks about it before deciding to join. So now you're at 14 teams. Then, the best schools in the Big East will all get invites from other conferences. Some will accept, gutting the Big East. This forces ND's hand wo then requests to be invited to the Big Ten party, which is now at 15 teams. The Big Ten can now get to 16 or if it wants 18, by inviting more of the Big 12 teams, Likely Missouri. If they want to get to 18, Kansas and Kansas St. will also get invites.

    That's a hell of a conference in both football and basketball if that's how it plays out.
    Go to 20 and have two divisions of 10 and a Conference playoff while preserving the BIG TEN.
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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    I don't understand why Louisville hasn't been all over trying to join the Big Ten.

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    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    ATC hit the nail on the head regarding the AAU. I'm glad that even in a blatant money grab the conference isn't completely selling out.

    So, let me see if I can work this out.

    East
    Penn State
    Ohio State
    Michigan
    Michigan State
    Indiana
    Purdue

    West
    Northwestern
    Illinois
    Wisconsin
    Minnesota
    Iowa
    Nebraska

    From there, let's look at the individual sports. For football, I am glad to see a program like Nebraska in the West. A lesser school would have meant Wisconsin dominating one side of an extremely uneven bracket (even though they still might.) Men's basketball, Nebraska is a total non-factor, as Barry Collier can certainly attest to. I just read they have never won an NCAA game. Sure, you can say the same thing about Northwestern, but I think we can agree that if they were in an easier conference they would have gotten to the dance a few times in the last 10 years.

    Women's basketball, Nebraska isn't a name program, but they are coming off a conference championship. They have a great baseball program (Purdue's quite thankful they got their new park approved), and one of THE volleyball programs (Penn State probably isn't happy right now). They have storied gymnastic and bowling programs, and a very good track program as well.

    All in all a very well-rounded athletic school, with men's basketball as the only real blemish. We know they travel well, I just hope their fans are closer to Ohio State (besides that OH-IO bull**** they are very well behaved) than Wisconsin. Personally I've had very bad experiences with Iowa fans of all people, I sure hope they don't act like their neighbors.

    As far as future expansion, I'd love to just stop here, but that's not going to happen. Provided ND still has their head up their ***, I would like to see Missouri and Pitt join, if for no other reason than geographically it makes the most sense. Travel is bad enough for the non-revenue sports already, let's not make it worse.

    Actually, Iowa State probably makes more geographic sense than Missouri, but nobody's going to be hit worse by the destruction of the Big 12 than Kansas City (Sprint Center's not gonna be making a profit anymore.) Might as well throw them a bone.
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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I don't understand why Louisville hasn't been all over trying to join the Big Ten.
    Big fish, small pond maybe. They also aren't part of the AAU, and don't have the market potential to make up for that. Personally I'd love to have them over a school on the edges.
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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    Louisville would be great here, but I agree the AAU seems to be a deciding designation required for acceptance.

    Also, Kegboy, I still think the west is ridiculously better than the East in your twelve team scenario.

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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    First domino falls...

    Colorado signs on with the Pac 10

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5271438

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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    but nobody's going to be hit worse by the destruction of the Big 12 than Kansas City (Sprint Center's not gonna be making a profit anymore.) Might as well throw them a bone.
    Aren't we giving them the Pacers?

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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Louisville would be great here, but I agree the AAU seems to be a deciding designation required for acceptance.

    Also, Kegboy, I still think the west is ridiculously better than the East in your twelve team scenario.
    Well, yes, IU and Purdue suck so bad at football they do kind of tarnish the others.
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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    Aren't we giving them the Pacers?
    No, we're trading the Pacers for the Tigers. Pretty fair, IMHO.
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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    Well, yes, IU and Purdue suck so bad at football they do kind of tarnish the others.
    I don't think you can have Penn State, Ohio State, and Michigan in the same division.

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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I don't think you can have Penn State, Ohio State, and Michigan in the same division.
    Yeah, the Big 10 would want two of those three to get the auto bids every year, and under this setup only one of them makes the title game.

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    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: college conference musical chairs

    Well, if you're not basing the divisions on geography, then what, alphabetically?

    Maybe Penn State should just move to St. Louis.
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