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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

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"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

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However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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Fix it Indycar!

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  • #16
    Re: Fix it Indycar!

    At this point though, I'm just glad they're gonna bring forced induction back.


    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Fix it Indycar!

      Originally posted by Bball View Post
      That's the question I've been having... How will it turn?

      I think it will require some heavy use of the accelerator to turn.
      It won't...It'll push like a dump truck. Engineers and engineering is fine, but only if they've ever put their head outside into the sunshine
      http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
      "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Fix it Indycar!

        Originally posted by duke dynamite View Post
        Indycar issued a statement saying that they had faulty hoses.

        http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news;...ug=ap-testonly
        Faulty hoses might've added to the problem but their response was all wrong and muddled and confused from the beginning. I think it's just been so long since this kind of situation has occurred that they just weren't properly prepared for the initial situation... let alone for an equipment failure.

        It looked like duties were not properly delegated to begin with and it just went downhill from there. I think at least two of the responders should've went immediately to the car and one or both of them should've had fire extinguishers. The other two could've handled the hose.
        Last edited by Bball; 06-09-2010, 12:44 PM.
        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

        ------

        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

        -John Wooden

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Fix it Indycar!

          You might well be correct. Inactivity breeds complacency. I'd wager that this situation will be corrected very promptly. The fact that she couldn't get the head surround out is a little distressing. I used to drill our drivers to make sure they could get the pins out and how to pull it and toss it over the nose.
          http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
          "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Fix it Indycar!

            Originally posted by DaveP63 View Post
            You might well be correct. Inactivity breeds complacency. I'd wager that this situation will be corrected very promptly. The fact that she couldn't get the head surround out is a little distressing. I used to drill our drivers to make sure they could get the pins out and how to pull it and toss it over the nose.
            If you look closely at the video of the accident I posted you never see the 2nd hose ever being used either. What LOOKS like the 2nd hose spraying is actually the 2nd fire extinguisher. It makes me wonder if the 2nd hose was ever operational either. And why the delay with it (assuming it did finally operate off camera)?

            Regardless if it's equipment failure, operator error, or both I have every confidence that this situation is already corrected for the next time. ....and I bet redundancy will be part of the equation to make a malfunctioning hose a small blip in the rescue and not turn it into a black eye for the sport.
            Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

            ------

            "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

            -John Wooden

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Fix it Indycar!

              The Delta Wing car looks like a land speed record car, not a race car. All of the other choices look better than that one, in my opinion.

              I find the general concept that the cars have to be "safer" going against the whole sport. Why do they have to be safer when the driver knows going in what the dangers are? That is why they are special. They can put away the worry of getting hurt and do amazing things with those cars at those speeds. I'm not advicating being reckless and not caring about their welfar, but are we getting to wimpy these days? Open wheeled racing, be it sprint cars to F1 is special just because of that. If a driver doesn't want that challenge then go get in a stock car.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Fix it Indycar!

                Safer is a relative concept. It is safer in the aspect that the cars are more able to shed energy during impact than they were before, but they are not and never will be "safe".
                http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
                "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Fix it Indycar!

                  I agree with that. I just don't get the need to cover up the open wheels. That is what makes the cars more dangerous and more challenging to drive.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Fix it Indycar!

                    Originally posted by SycamoreKen View Post
                    I agree with that. I just don't get the need to cover up the open wheels. That is what makes the cars more dangerous and more challenging to drive.

                    I think maybe what I am saying is getting lost in the translation.

                    I do believe Indycar, especially at the Indy 500 time trials, needs to be pushing the boundaries of speed. OTOH They can't make the cars rolling coffins so safety has to be a factor but they can't just tweak the rules and use stale technology to keep the cars in the same speed range year after year after year. Let alone throw curveballs in to slow them or maintain speed year after year. That dilutes the imagination of the public. ...And Indy is not just about the race. In fact, if Indy is about the race alone then we see it loses a lot of what has made it compelling over the years.

                    Then factor in the 'exciting' races at Texas, Chicagoland, etc. D shaped, high-banked, cookie cutter ovals. Yes they are exciting. Part of that excitement is the potential for a close finish. Part of that excitement is seeing drivers driving on the edge of disaster.

                    Chris Economaki once said people don't go to the races to see death, they go to the racers to see drivers cheat death.

                    I agree with that. But they don't go to the races to see a car go flying into the stands either. The closeness of the racing, especially on the D shaped ovals with open wheel racers isn't exactly the safest for spectators. So you have a double-edged sword- With the potential of an accident getting out of control where the car's safety features are tested outside their design parameters AND the track safety features (for fans) are as well.

                    These type of flying car accidents are too unpredictable to cover all the safety bases.

                    Nobody is clamoring for fenders, but protecting the wheels against the type of wheel to wheel contact that sends a car flying shouldn't be out of the question.

                    I want to see Indycars at Indy going faster again... at least in qualifying trim. If this change makes that again feasible then I am all for it. I'm less concerned about more speed for the D shaped ovals. There it's just a matter of the potential for disaster with the close racing that the cars and track types gives us.

                    I also like the excitement of the D shaped tracks but I realize if Indycar ever puts a car thru the fence (or over it) the game is over. While it can happen at Indy (see Renna accident or even Conway's accident) the D-shaped tracks are a place where we might just be awaiting the inevitable if we don't do something to control it soon. Those tracks breed the situations where flying cars are extra likely.

                    As I've already said, once you have a car in the air all bets are off on predictions or expectations of what can happen in that wreck. The absolute randomness of it puts you at the mercy of safety features that just weren't designed with this type of accident in mind.

                    I think a design can be done in a way that doesn't radically alter the look of the cars the way the Delta Wing is doing.

                    Also, if we're truly into the sport being about the technology of speed, having those big exposed tires and wheels is actually a major source of drag (wind resistance) on the cars. So it isn't helping them go faster or use fuel more efficiently either.
                    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                    ------

                    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                    -John Wooden

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Fix it Indycar!

                      Many good points there. One thing that I have been pondering about qualifying is using a different engine map on the ECU to allow more power for qualifying and then cutting it back for the race. That would allow faster qualifying times, but keep them more under control for the race itself. There are ways to minimize wheel exposure for open wheel cars, but even with them "covered" as it shows in some of the proposals, the construction of the wings, endplates and sidepods will still allow them to collapse under impact and expose the wheels. It just keeps that extra 10-12 inches of tire out of the immediate "here, trip over me" zone.
                      http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
                      "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Fix it Indycar!

                        Engine mapping differences for qualifying and the race, at least at Indy, is something I've thought about before as well. I don't see the downside although I do see the need to keep the genie in the bottle somewhat. They can't be finding an extra 10MPH each year or else they will outrun advancements in safety.

                        OTOH, hamstringing the cars until they are running speeds they ran 20 years ago isn't the right answer IMHO.

                        Once the genie was out of the bottle and the 240MPH barrier was in sight (239MPH in practice... 236MPH qualifying), following that the next year with 218MPH wasn't exactly stupifying for the public's imagination.

                        They did get over the 230 barrier again in 2002 and 2003 but then went back to 222MPH in 04.

                        There has always been tweaks to slow the speed increments down over the years, but during the IRL era they've been much more active in keeping speeds down.
                        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                        ------

                        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                        -John Wooden

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Fix it Indycar!

                          Just have to see what the new package offers. I'm not sure whether Honda issues the ECU for the weekend or IRL. It's fairly easy to change the mapping with a computer program so it'd be easy to get one setup for qualifying, turn it in and get another for the race. Put a seal on it when installed so it's easy to check for tampering during post race.
                          http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
                          "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Fix it Indycar!

                            Originally posted by DaveP63 View Post
                            Just have to see what the new package offers. I'm not sure whether Honda issues the ECU for the weekend or IRL. It's fairly easy to change the mapping with a computer program so it'd be easy to get one setup for qualifying, turn it in and get another for the race. Put a seal on it when installed so it's easy to check for tampering during post race.
                            Wouldn't this be something that is already checked post race (and post Q)? I'm figuring the IRL would be cautious of any chip tampering possibilities done now even.
                            Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                            ------

                            "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                            -John Wooden

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Fix it Indycar!

                              I'm sure that it is. I can't imagine them letting the teams keep the "race" ECU between events, they'd be modified in seconds...The way I've seen it done in other series is the series keeps them in a slotted case and hands it out during pre-practice tech. Once it's installed, it's sealed until post race when they come around and collect them after inspection or in the tech line.
                              http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
                              "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Fix it Indycar!

                                I understand both of your points and see where you are coming from. It would be nice to see the series actually make innovation and originality a part of it. There has to be a way to make that happen without making it too expensive.

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