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Thread: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

  1. #151

    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    But the deal breaker is the contract.

    I couldn't agree more. Being starved so long for a possible good player, doesn't mean jumping out of the frying pan into the fire to take on an albatross contract for 4 years after finally getting rid of 2-4 year albatross contracts.

    I asked a question the other day, and no one answered it. Maybe Count 55 could answer it.

    If the Pacers took on Okafor's contract how will that affect the Pacers salary each year? How will it affect the Pacers being able to sign some of the young players coming off their rookie contract? The effect it can have on signing FA or being able to use the full MLE? Keep in mind Herb Simon isn't going to go over the LT in the future from making a deal that would put the Pacers in a bad finanical situation.

  2. #152
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I'd want Roy on the low block before Emeka.

    But the deal breaker is the contract.
    My point is that it's not as if there aren't any offenses in existence which allow for having two low post guys on the floor at the same time, and that if you don't want to do that the entire time both are playing, you can shift Roy high if you want to.

  3. #153
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Getting the ball down low to Emeka isn't something you want to spend much time employing. I mean I'd probably still do this deal, but people aren't really understanding what kind of player Okafor really is.
    You are raising a legit point, but its not like their aren't ways around this. Many teams have been successful with offensively challenged bigs. Okafor sureley can't be any worse than Ben Wallace or Dale Davis.

    One thing to factor in, is that Rush, Granger, and Collison are all very good three point shooters, which would help a lot with stretching the floor in this scenario. There is also Hibbert who has the ability to play in the high post at times as Hicks pointed out.
    Last edited by Infinite MAN_force; 06-05-2010 at 04:04 PM.
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  4. #154

    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    But the deal breaker is the contract.
    Based on the fact that Bird has been adamant about not taking on long term contracts to clear cap space for next year I completely agree with you.

  5. #155
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Bird has to know that if we just clear up cap space and wait until next summer that we won't signing any all star players. We are going to have to over pay for somebody. We aren't going to get two all star caliber players out of free agency next year.

    Over paying for Okafor, who is a legitiment starter at PF, to get Collison doesn't sound too bad. He might not live up to whtat he is paid in his contract, but he will give you 13 and 9 almost every night.
    Last edited by pacers74; 06-06-2010 at 10:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    I'd say you're underrating Okafor's offense as much as others are overrating it.
    I know absolutely nothing about how he plays on offense. Is there a web site that would have shot charts on him, or other players for that matter?

    The other thing I'd want to know is how good is he at settings picks and screens?

  8. #157

    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    I know absolutely nothing about how he plays on offense. Is there a web site that would have shot charts on him, or other players for that matter?

    The other thing I'd want to know is how good is he at settings picks and screens?
    Couldn't we just sign Brian Sloan? I bet he'd be cheaper.

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  10. #158
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    I've been reading all the rumors and possible trades, and I just have a gut feeling that Raymond Felton will be in a Pacers uniform next year. Not sure what expiring will be shipped out for him (Murph, TJ, Foster, Rush), but it will most likely involve the #10 pick as well. Like I said, just a gut feeling that I can't seem to shake.
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    There are two sides of a half-court set, for one thing, and for another, Roy himself can play high post when we want to get Emeka the ball on the low block.

    It's not even close to a deal breaker.
    The main concerns I have about Okafor are perimeter defense and the giant contract. Otherwise, I actually like a lot about Okafor, especially compared to Murphy.

    His offensive issues wouldn't be that big a deal if coupled with Hibbert, who could score from midrange (maybe they could get a poor man's midrange/ garbage bucket Smits/ Dale dynamic going offensively? very poor man's?). Okafor is actually a significantly better rebounder than Hibbert even though Hibbert is much taller, so having Okafor closest to the basket makes sense.

    Hibbert and Okafor are similar caliber shot blockers. Having two guys on the floor who can block and alter shots would be nice. I wish at least one of these two had quicker feet to guard perimeter bigmen; we'd just have a tough time against those types.
    Last edited by IndyPacer; 06-06-2010 at 01:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Did I miss something? Okafor has been a double/double, defensive player since he came into the league. Last season, he averaged 9.1 RPG, but his minutes were cut by 4 minutes. He's played in all 82 games for the past three seasons. He's one of the better offensive rebounders (6th) in the game. Man, I would trade Murphy and # 10 pick in heartbeat for Okafor. Looking at his mixtubes, there are some parts of his game that I would like Hibbert to copy. There's nothing wrong with having two defensive monsters in the paint. Let's not forget that Granger (5th among SFs), Rush (3rd among SGs), and D. Jones (7th among SGs) were Top 10 shotblocking perimeter players. If Emeka can keep up those numbers, I can look past the fact he has 4 years left on his contract.

  13. #161
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    I just want to hear more rumors or have more workouts. The beginning of the week was nice with workouts on the 1st and the 2nd and then the Chad Ford Tony Parker rumor.

  14. #162
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I disagree, I don't think you need a shooter for a power forward if your Center likes to play near the basket..it just means we have two players near the basket..That's traditional..your point guard, shooting guard, and Small forward stretch the floor....you know..your perimeter players..

    I think Hibbert needs a POWER forward much more than a "stretch" forward. Okafor's good for putbacks and dunks..which is fine. That's "solid offensively" for a power forward. Plus, he provides defense and rebounding. (And I don't mean he steals other players rebounds, I mean he actually gets them himself..)

    Still, he is expensive.

    however, if you think Collison/Price solves the PG position, Granger the SF, Hibbert the Center, name a better PF that we could get for Okafor, and having Foster/Hans to back him up is just icing on the cake? We'd just need a shooting guard, with dahntay as backup.

    I'd rather give McBob a chance to see if he could fill the POWER role .. rather than he get lost in the shuffle with an Okafur aquisition..

    I honestly believe that if we Let Josh PLAY , he will EARN his place as a starter next to Roy ...
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by pacers74 View Post
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    Bird has to know that if we just clear up cap space and wait until next summer that we won't signing any all star players. We are going to have to over pay for somebody. We aren't going to get to all star caliber players out of free agency next year.

    Over paying for Okafor, who is a legitiment starter at PF, to get Collison doesn't sound too bad. He might not live up to whtat he is paid in his contract, but he will give you 13 and 9 almost every night.
    That's my opinion too.
    All this "gotta save the money" talk is as thought IF we have the money, they will come. Well, lots of teams have the WANT too. We aren't bidding in a vacuum.
    Getting a long term answer at a endless weakness (pg) AND getting a Dale Davis type to go with our Rik Smits type center, doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    You are raising a legit point, but its not like their aren't ways around this. Many teams have been successful with offensively challenged bigs. Okafor sureley can't be any worse than Ben Wallace or Dale Davis.

    One thing to factor in, is that Rush, Granger, and Collison are all very good three point shooters, which would help a lot with stretching the floor in this scenario. There is also Hibbert who has the ability to play in the high post at times as Hicks pointed out.
    Right, but Hibbert doesn't attract attention in the high post or even beyond like Rasheed Wallace did for the Pistons when they had Wallace/Ben at the PF and C during their run. Rasheed was one of the most versatile players in the league around 2004 and kept teams incredibly honest even with an offensively challenged Ben. Hibbert is good, but will never ever be versatile like Rasheed in his prime.

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Right now I have Holiday and Patterson/Davis (Udoh and Monroe will be gone), he's HOPING to get Collison and Hans.

    Collison will likely cost more than just the 10th and Hans might never play again and certainly hasn't proven anything more than players in this draft even when he does return. In fact a player drafted this year will have had MORE off-season work with his team than Hans will have.


    You are taking 10-13th picks and getting one guy ranked well below that last year and a PF that would be ranked well below that this year.

    You had the money for a Porsche but settled for a Jetta. Saying "hey, it's a brand new Jetta so I did just fine" is not a legit defense of that choice. You OVERSPENT, period. Even literally because trading down to get Collison last year would have meant a cheaper rookie deal on the books.
    NONE of the PF that are available accomplished anything near what Tyler H did. WINNING is what the game is about. NOT who jumps the highest.
    Some on here would do well to remember that.
    Winners WIN. Jumpers win dunk titles. (jumping just as an example of why someone would be "rated" higher)
    A brand new Jetta is a fine car. A Porsche is a fabulous car that will take a lot more work and a hell of a lot more money to maintain. Temperamental, take a lot of attention and fine tuning, etc
    A LOT like a lot of players in the NBA.

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    Right, but Hibbert doesn't attract attention in the high post or even beyond like Rasheed Wallace did for the Pistons when they had Wallace/Ben at the PF and C during their run. Rasheed was one of the most versatile players in the league around 2004 and kept teams incredibly honest even with an offensively challenged Ben. Hibbert is good, but will never ever be versatile like Rasheed in his prime.
    Roy will never be shooting 3's (thank God), but he is VERY effective to 15'. I think you aren't seeing how well he developed as the season went on. He's also a pretty good passer, so the high post thing might just work very well, though I want him down low as much as possible.
    Roy will be a much better player in his prime that Rashweed ever was.

  19. #167
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by MLB007 View Post
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    Roy will never be shooting 3's (thank God), but he is VERY effective to 15'. I think you aren't seeing how well he developed as the season went on. He's also a pretty good passer, so the high post thing might just work very well, though I want him down low as much as possible.
    Roy will be a much better player in his prime that Rashweed ever was.
    Agreed on Roy not being a 3 point shooter. I'm not completely against PF's and C's shooting the 3 like some, it can be done effectively in a selective way, but O'Brien abuses it and turns everyone on here against it completely.

    I've seen Roy develop, I watched him very closely in the 5th row center court during the last game of the year at Washington when he scored 29 points. Roy is effective to 15' but is primarily a post player. He can't do the things on the perimeter like Rasheed could, Rasheed could take people off the dribble from the perimeter and take it to the basket or pull up for mid-range or borderline three point shots. And he did this while being able to be a pretty good post player when he needed to be. If Murphy were as mean and multidimensional as Rasheed was no one would complain about him. Anyway, above are the kinds of things someone needs to do to make up for an offensively inept player like Okafor or to an even larger extent Ben Wallace. Hibbert can do many things, but he isn't multidimensional enough to keep the defense honest like Rasheed could.

    I don't like Rasheed's personality, but dude is a 4 time All-Star. Will Hibbert make the All-Star team five times? I'd love it to happen but I doubt it.
    Last edited by idioteque; 06-06-2010 at 10:35 AM.

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by MLB007 View Post
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    NONE of the PF that are available accomplished anything near what Tyler H did. WINNING is what the game is about. NOT who jumps the highest.
    Some on here would do well to remember that.
    Winners WIN. Jumpers win dunk titles. (jumping just as an example of why someone would be "rated" higher)
    A brand new Jetta is a fine car. A Porsche is a fabulous car that will take a lot more work and a hell of a lot more money to maintain. Temperamental, take a lot of attention and fine tuning, etc
    A LOT like a lot of players in the NBA.
    While we're going with the car analogy, while the Jetta is the more reliable, safer car, it isn't often you're going to win a race with it unless all the sports cars crash into each other in front of it. That has only happened one time recently (2004) and I don't even really remember it happening recently at all before then.

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    Anyway, above are the kinds of things someone needs to do to make up for an offensively inept player like Okafor or to an even larger extent Ben Wallace.
    sorry but there's no such thing as an offensively inept big who averages 13.5ppg for his career
    Last edited by millertime90; 06-06-2010 at 12:23 PM.

  22. #170
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Some people on here just want the pacers to play it safe and only do a deal if we don't have to take back a lot of salary. That is not going to happen. Either we sit on are hands and do nothing or we take a chance on one of the deals that might be out there.
    The deal with Okafor and Collison works out great. You get 2 starters to fill to positions of need for us. Yes you have to take on a lot of salary, but we will give that salary to someone. It's not like we are going to get a big price if we are 35 mil or whatever under the cap next year. That salry will go to some mid level player, who we will overpay for.
    The other deal, where we have to take Brand, and you get the second pick seams like a no brainer also. Turner should end up being an all-star. If not, at least you didn't sit there and do nothing.
    I hope Bird is looking at all options and not just waiting for next summer.

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
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    I'd rather give McBob a chance to see if he could fill the POWER role .. rather than he get lost in the shuffle with an Okafur aquisition..

    I honestly believe that if we Let Josh PLAY , he will EARN his place as a starter next to Roy ...
    I think this line of thinking is flawed. There is no way to "earn" playing time for this team, except by having a larger contract or more years of service. It would be incorrect to say that McRoberts earned his way to the deep end of the bench when he was given a chance to actually play, but that's exactly what happened.

    With Jim O'Brien there is no reward for playing well.

  25. #172
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Rupert Stilinski View Post
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    With Jim O'Brien there is no reward for not shooting the 3 ball
    Fixed
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  26. #173

    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Fixed
    not true, he shoved the only PG who could shoot on the bench..

    Perhaps it's only true of POST players

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Chillout View Post
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    Couldn't we just sign Brian Sloan? I bet he'd be cheaper.
    Haha, the best screener ever at IU! I think Dick Vitale still talks about him. I bet nobody else knows who your talking bout, lol.

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Sloan 45 IIRC
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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