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Thread: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    Okafor may be expensive, but he is exactly what we are looking for in a big man. Part of the reason these expiring contracts are valuable is because you are taking salary off the other teams hands. The key is to find a servicable player who is also a good fit and doesn't have an overpaid contract. Okafor qualifies.

    I could stomach it to get Colllison.
    Fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    Every team has a bad contract. I'm more interested in how it would work on the floor.
    That line of thinking had us saddled and financially held hostage over the last 3 seasons with the MurphLeavy trade ( coupled with Ford and Foster's Contract ) that IMHO prevented us from making any significant moves that could have helped this Team in the short and long term.

    This doesn't mean that I don't think that we should not take on any long-term contracts.....I just think that it's important that we do not take on any "overpaid" contracts....which IMHO Okafor qualifies. Financial Flexiblity allows us to make moves like what the Thunder have done over the last couple of seasons. Remember, Capspace allows the Team to have more options ( Free Agency and trades ) when it comes to improving the Team.
    Last edited by CableKC; 06-03-2010 at 05:15 PM.
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  2. #52
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    I find it extremely unlikely that Bird does something like this.

    I think the #10 pick is far and away our best trading asset, and I think we're looking to package it with at least one of the expiring contracts and get a vet.

    Despite my spitballing in the Granger #4 thread, I don't see the Pacers making any move that doesn't give an immediate on the floor return.

    In fact, I will be shocked if we don't come out of draft night with a new, vet/young vet PG. I can't say whether we'll like it or not, but I think all of the pressure for the Pacers will be to move faster, not to take longer.
    Which will continue the trend of TPTB totally FUBARing this situation.

    JOB, Watson, keeping and running Troy big minutes, playing Rasho more minutes than Roy, keeping guys like Price and Josh on the bench...it's all part of the stupid, shortsighted, oh-my-god-we-must-win-now mentality that has ALREADY FAILED MISERABLY.


    Did the last 2 years of "win now" earn the Pacers ANY fans? Did they see attendance (revenue) drop?

    Ok, so that win now crap already didn't work, it didn't save the day or keep them afloat. There is total disinterest for the most part.

    Had they sucked it up and just let the kids play huge minutes, moved the vets like Dun and Troy or at least reduced their roles to a level appropriate for a player who will not be part of your winning seasons anyway, then we'd be somewhere other than the exact same spot.


    It's 100% NOT the draft spot. The early 90's teams climbed right into the ECF directly following 3-4 years of .500 "wheels spinning". It's the overall mentality they are taking, a complete disconnect from the reality of the team's actual identity. Walsh didn't stick with Bob Hill, he went and got Larry Brown. Walsh traded the older Herb for the younger Detlef. Scott as a cheap FA sure, but it's been very rare for them to bring in an outside vet to fill a top 3 role...Mullin for a year or so and???? And yet that team did go on a long winning run with 4 picks worse than 10th as major players - Reggie, Dale, Jax, Tony.

    You don't need higher picks per se, you just need an appropriate vision of where you can get to and where you are currently at.




    BTW, if you want 100% proof that Bird is a horrible GM, just wait and see if he turns the #10 this year into a guy he easily could have drafted last year with a lower pick. That's how you continue to lose.

    Hey, maybe draft Holiday like we wanted, or even chase your Lawson dream, and save the Tyler choice for this season. Use Josh in all of Tyler's minutes this past season and you don't have the slightest negative impact. In fact I'd say you would have been better off because Josh would have been more developed.

    Then this year you have improved Josh, Holiday and still get to keep the freaking #10 pick.



    I'll admit that I'm mad over speculation, not reality. But I'm putting it out there now that as done as I am with the team because of JOB, Bird trading the #10 directly for a guy he could/should have drafted with the Tyler pick last year will put me over the edge.

    They aren't going to get anything better with the #10, and very well might not even get a Collison (ie, Travis Best 2).


    OTOH, I'll be first in line to give mad props to Larry and admit this anger was silly if he somehow is turning the #10 PLUS Dun/Troy/TJ into a more serious vet addition (Joe Johnson level). If it's not something that good then what is the point? Collison is not winning them a title this year and likely won't even put them in the playoffs.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 06-03-2010 at 05:24 PM.

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  4. #53
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Exactly. And if Okafor brings us what we need at the PF position (as much as he can, that is), that's still far better than the obscene money we've been paying Tinsley to go away, Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy (post-injury; I thought it was fair value in '08), TJ Ford to be our backup / 3rd PG, and Jeff Foster to treat his back injury.

    It's still a bad contract, but relative to where we've been and where we are now, it's not that bad. Especially if he's the only one.
    I disagree...to a certain extent. For me, it would come down to what we had to give up to make the deal happen.

    As pacergod2 mentioned.....either take out the draft picks or swap them....but taking on $41 mil in guaranteed $$ with Collison as sweetner is tolerable....adding #10 while not getting back anything else isn't worth it IMHO.

    Okafor+Collison for Murphy+Solo = Acceptable
    Okafor+Collison+11 for Murphy+Solo+10 = Acceptable
    Okafor+Collison for Murphy+Solo+10 = Not Acceptable

    Willingness to add on $41 mil in guaranteed salary to the Pacers Payroll IMHO is a HUGE commitment that should ( given our financial situation ) yield a hefty pricetag ( in this case, Collison ).
    Last edited by CableKC; 06-03-2010 at 05:27 PM.
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    If we can get Collison and Okafor and only have to give up the 10th pick and Murphy than why not do it. In the past 3 season okafor has not missed a game, he averages 13 pts and almost 10 rebounds a game. Not awesome numbers, but he would be perfect next to Hibbert and Granger. You are also getting Collison who put up all star numbers after CP3 got hurt. I think we could still pick up a pretty good player in the second round like Vasquez, or Crawford.
    What does everyone really think we are going to do when we let these contracts expire next year? We aren't going to sign anyone who will be an all star. Lets face reality and get the best deal we can. You are going to have to take on a bad contract and Okafors looks like he could fit in here pretty well.

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  7. #55

    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Okafor is a perfect fit for the player x we need. He can play pf next to Hibbert and C next to Tyler. Most likely he would start at pf and Tyler would come off the bench. Okafor rebounds, plays good defense, is still in his prime and is healthy , not a star but is a very good player. Yes, he's overpaid, but you know what you're getting and what we'd be getting is exactly what we need. Not to mention the best part of the deal is getting a good young point guard in Collison who is still on his rookie contract. This is the deal I'd like to see happen.
    “It is what we learn after we know it all that really counts” - John Wooden

  8. #56

    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    I could probably stomach one of the deals CableKC alludes to.
    But the sample size on Collison is awful small to justify swallowing
    Okafor's contract.

    I like Collison's skill-set, etc. But 23 fairly meaningless, mid-regular
    season games on a team going nowhere isn't much to base a
    sound judgement of his future/upside on.

  9. #57

    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    (While I'm not very good at math, I count 8 "if's" in there.)


    You wouldn't be the only Greenwood grad to not be very good at math, especially in the approximation of the class of 87.

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  11. #58

    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by pacers74 View Post
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    If we can get Collison and Okafor and only have to give up the 10th pick and Murphy than why not do it. In the past 3 season okafor has not missed a game, he averages 13 pts and almost 10 rebounds a game. Not awesome numbers, but he would be perfect next to Hibbert and Granger. You are also getting Collison who put up all star numbers after CP3 got hurt. I think we could still pick up a pretty good player in the second round like Vasquez, or Crawford.
    What does everyone really think we are going to do when we let these contracts expire next year? We aren't going to sign anyone who will be an all star. Lets face reality and get the best deal we can. You are going to have to take on a bad contract and Okafors looks like he could fit in here pretty well.

    Have you stopped to consider the cap ramifications of taking on Okafor'
    s contract for 4 years? What about the money for Hibbert, Hans, and Rush's next contract? Where would taking on Okafor's contract put the Pacers salary each of the next 4 years?

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    You wouldn't be the only Greenwood grad to not be very good at math, especially in the approximation of the class of 87.
    88, but who's counting?

    Rumor has it that my calculus homework got better grades in '88-'89 than it did in '87-'88.

    Further proving your point.

    I am "The CPA that's bad at basic math"!
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    And life itself, rushing over me
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    I sure hope no one who balked at paying Brand's $50 million to get Turner is now excited about paying Okafor $50 million to get Collison.

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  16. #61
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    I just hope we don't end up with someone like Ridnour

    I wouldn't be surprised to see us go after Lawson, Augustin or a similar point guard who is still pretty young, hasn't played a lot of years professionally yet and comes from a decent college program in which he has proven himself worthy.

    Sessions could be a target as could be Flynn or maybe even Rubio (doubt it, but who knows), though the asking price for him would probably be Granger. They likely would have to pony up picks or other players though to make Bird take the baite.

    Felton could be a target.

    I would hope Collison, but I doubt the Hornets dealing him (but, we can always dream, can't we? ).

    Maybe Bird will go after Andre Miller (please, NO!)...

    Without a bit more information this speculation is fun, but pretty much futile .
    Last edited by Mourning; 06-03-2010 at 07:22 PM.
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    I think we finally get something done with Charlotte this year then- if I had to guess.
    I think you might be right...........what pick does Charlotte have?
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    I sure hope no one who balked at paying Brand's $50 million to get Turner is now excited about paying Okafor $50 million to get Collison.

    I'm not excited about it and I didn't think that Turner was worth taking on Brand's overpaid contract.

    I could live with it if we didn't have to give up #10....but adding $11 to 14+ mil to our SalaryCap for each of the next 4 seasons isn't very appealing to me.

    I know that you can't get something for nothing....but I don't think that Collison is worth giving up the 10th Pick....basically one of the few Tradeable Assets that we have left.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
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    I think you might be right...........what pick does Charlotte have?
    They don't have one this year.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    They don't have one this year.

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    This is seriously freaking me out. I have almost nothing this year I've enjoyed other than Rush's defense and seeing Hibbert and Price develop. This draft was one of the few things I was really excited about. I'm not sure what I'll do if they blow this as well.

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by dlewyus View Post
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    Okafor is a perfect fit for the player x we need. He can play pf next to Hibbert and C next to Tyler. Most likely he would start at pf and Tyler would come off the bench. Okafor rebounds, plays good defense, is still in his prime and is healthy , not a star but is a very good player. Yes, he's overpaid, but you know what you're getting and what we'd be getting is exactly what we need. Not to mention the best part of the deal is getting a good young point guard in Collison who is still on his rookie contract. This is the deal I'd like to see happen.
    I thought that Player X would be someone that can play next to Hansbrough as a Center ( which he is ) and still able to play next to Hibbert as the PF. Is Okafor quick enough to venture out from the paint to defend those Non-Low-Post Scoring PFs that are quick and athletic?

    My guess is that he's a good Big Man to play next to Hansbrough...but not the type of Big Man that we want to play next to Hibbert.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    I sure hope no one who balked at paying Brand's $50 million to get Turner is now excited about paying Okafor $50 million to get Collison.


    This is a good thought. I am on board with either trade. Turner looks like he could be better than Collison, but Okafor is playing better than Brand.
    If we had both offers on the table I wonder which one we would choose. I would take the 2nd pick and Brand. although Collison and Okafor would be great too.

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    I sure hope no one who balked at paying Brand's $50 million to get Turner is now excited about paying Okafor $50 million to get Collison.

    Okafor is at least healthier, younger, and better defensively.

    Plus we get a young PG.

  26. #70

    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I thought that Player X would be someone that can play next to Hansbrough as a Center ( which he is ) and still able to play next to Hibbert as the PF. Is Okafor quick enough to venture out from the paint to defend those Non-Low-Post Scoring PFs that are quick and athletic?

    My guess is that he's a good Big Man to play next to Hansbrough...but not the type of Big Man that we want to play next to Hibbert.
    Good question. It's my understanding that Okafor is a good athlete and can guard the pf. Some say its his more natural position. However it is questionable whether he could guard the (stretch 4's), but he could also abuse these types on the other end. That's the way I would prefer to deal with small ball anyway instead of matching up with their strength, make them match up to ours.

    I'd have to admit, I haven't seen Okafor play that much. Maybe he's not as good an athlete as I'm giving him credit for. I'm no T-bird when it comes to evaluating players.

    By the way, these trade rumors, and the discussion on this site are alot more interesting than watching our team the last couple of years.
    “It is what we learn after we know it all that really counts” - John Wooden

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by dlewyus View Post
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    Good question. It's my understanding that Okafor is a good athlete and can guard the pf. Some say its his more natural position. However it is questionable whether he could guard the (stretch 4's), but he could also abuse these types on the other end. That's the way I would prefer to deal with small ball anyway instead of matching up with their strength, make them match up to ours.
    Okafor isn't abusing anyone on the offensive end. Despite being a hardworker and even spending time working on his low post moves with Hakeem, he's still not refined on the offensive end and really hasn't improved offensively since coming into the league.

    He's been forced to play as an undersized C for the majority of his career because putting him at PF has made his team too easy to defend. The Hornets and Bobcats can both attest to this. He's just too limited on that side of the ball to play fulltime at PF and make his team effective offensively.

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  29. #72

    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    One thing is for sure, IF the Pacers make a deal and plug Okafor in
    at PF, they'll either need Rush to quickly evolove into a consistently
    prolific, offensive threat at SG.

    If not, they probably aren't gonna get enough scoring punch out
    of a Hibbs-Okafor-DG-Rush-Collison quintet.

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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillman's 'Fro' View Post
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    One thing is for sure, IF the Pacers make a deal and plug Okafor in
    at PF, they'll either need Rush to quickly evolove into a consistently
    prolific, offensive threat at SG.

    If not, they probably aren't gonna get enough scoring punch out
    of a Hibbs-Okafor-DG-Rush-Collison quintet.
    Why do you say that? We all know Granger can fill it up, Hibbert is a pretty solid offensive center, and Collison proved that he can score and create his own shot when he filled in for CP3. Okafor can get some garbage buckets and Rush can focus on spot shooting. I don't think it would be that bad personally.

  31. #74
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    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    I don't think the Hornets will be the trade partner, could be wrong though.

    I do expect Bird to get multiple pieces, like he has in previous trades.

    It'll likely also involve Ford, Murphy, Foster or Rush.

  32. #75

    Default Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyPacer View Post
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    This is seriously freaking me out. I have almost nothing this year I've enjoyed other than Rush's defense and seeing Hibbert and Price develop. This draft was one of the few things I was really excited about. I'm not sure what I'll do if they blow this as well.


    You need to have a plan "B" in reserve.

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