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Thread: riff raff from now resolved disagreement

  1. #1
    sweabs
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    Default riff raff from now resolved disagreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I think it's highly, highly over-sensitive to request a name change for that award, but Kstat's suggestion works well.


    Highly, highly over-sensitive? Sorry, but I don't understand.

    You could go ahead and keep the award under the label "Non-American" - but the awards are (seemingly?) undergoing some reconfiguration. My request was not an attack on America, but rather meant to appreciate the plurality and multifaceted world we live in - where objectifying binary oppositions such as "American" and "Non-American" just seem silly. I don't know anyone who constructs their identity as "Non-American".

    Therefore, I thought that clicking the backspace a few times, and entering in some new characters that better reflected that idea was a harmless request since the future of the awards are being put under a closer microscope. The fact that you took the time to reply to such a request at all (and in the manner you did) is quite telling.

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by sweabs View Post
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    The fact that you took the time to reply to such a request at all (and in the manner you did) is quite telling.
    And what is that supposed to mean?

    I think the fact that you even requested the change in the first place "is quite telling."

  3. #3
    sweabs
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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    And what is that supposed to mean?

    I think the fact that you even requested the change in the first place "is quite telling."
    I told you why I brought up the suggestion for change. I felt as though surely there were better 'labels' out there than "Non-American fan" that could better encompass the winner's identity. I'm really quite surprised that you're arguing this point. And, like I said - the fact that you have taken offense to this small change is - well, that would be unPD territory.

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by sweabs View Post
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    And, like I said - the fact that you have taken offense to this small change is - well, that would be unPD territory.
    That's exactly what I was asking about in my last reply, and you've avoided it. If you're going to call me a bigot, be a man and do it directly instead of with a veiled, holier-than-though BS comment like the one above. Otherwise, you need to shut up before you say something else equally ignorant, incorrect, and insulting.

    I'd like to assume I'm jumping the gun on what you meant, but the fact that you dodged this, sadly, tells me I'm not.

  5. #5
    sweabs
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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    That's exactly what I was asking about in my last reply, and you've avoided it. If you're going to call me a bigot, be a man and do it directly instead of with a veiled, holier-than-though BS comment like the one above. Otherwise, you need to shut up before you say something else equally ignorant, incorrect, and insulting.

    I'd like to assume I'm jumping the gun on what you meant, but the fact that you dodged this, sadly, tells me I'm not.
    Well, perhaps you could explain why you remain so adamant on keeping the award titled as "Best Non-American fan" instead of something like "International fan"? On the surface, it is nothing more than changing some letters around - so clearly we are talking about something that is much more meaningful if it has (regrettably) functioned to get you so riled up (for that, I'm sorry).

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by sweabs View Post
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    Well, perhaps you could explain why you remain so adamant on keeping the award titled as "Best Non-American fan" instead of something like "International fan"? On the surface, it is nothing more than changing some letters around - so clearly we are talking about something that is much more meaningful if it has (regrettably) functioned to get you so riled up (for that, I'm sorry).
    You didn't even bother to ask me first before making the veiled accusation. I have no tolerance for that.

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    For the record, Pig Nash said all I was trying to say in the first place:

    Quote Originally Posted by Pig Nash View Post
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    I don't have an issue with the name as is since it is accurate to what the award is.
    That's why I'm so damned pissed off by that kind of an accusation being (publicly, no less) shot my way without even asking me for ****ing clarification first.

    Even if I was way off (which I'm not convinced I was) by suggesting sweabs was being overly sensitive, that doesn't justify throwing such a ****ty label on me that way. That's straight BS.

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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    I think cooler heads will prevail.
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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    He was off-target, I believe, because I know your positions well, hicks. But I'd have hoped a few more posts could have clarified / calmed....you know.

    Nothing permanent, I hope.
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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Makes sense to me (An American). International fan sounds better than "Non-American Fan". Attaching "non" or "un" in front of something is just a lazy use of language. People outside of America don't refer to themselves as "Non-American". I could see how it could be viewed as a tiny bit ethnocentric.

    "Ethnocentrism is the tendency to believe that one's ethnic or cultural group is centrally important, and that all other groups are measured in relation to one's own." - Wikipedia

    I don't think Sweabs was implying that there was any intentional insensitivity in using the term "non-american"... just suggesting a small improvement of terminology. Given the nature of the thread was discussing changing the names and types of awards given. You know?

    I think Hicks is overreacting a bit here.
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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by N8R View Post
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    Hicks that is an overreaction to this subject. He doesnt need to be banned for disagreeing with you. Nothing was meant by it. I think cooler heads need to prevail.
    Quote Originally Posted by N8R View Post
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    He called me on the phone worried about it.

    He is not nor did her ever call anyone a racist or a bigot or anything. It is not meant to be hurtful toward you Hicks. he was just wondering why the name couldn't be changed. I think it just took a quick turn for the worse by assumptions on your end and assumptions on his end too. I know that more posts and if you two could talk about it you would know there is no reason for this banning.
    He insinuated I'm a bigot before asking what I meant to begin with, and then when I asked him about it, he avoids it, then when I call him out, he does anything but say "that's not what I meant" and instead tries to make it look like this is all my problem. That's BS.

    This is all a sad turn of events in that it was easily avoidable, but I can't escape the fact that he came out with the veiled bigot label before bothering to check with me over what I was trying to say first.

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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    sweabs' opinion on the title of the forum award has nothing to do with his banning. I don't want anyone to wrongly believe otherwise.

    I understand the idea behind changing the name, though I could argue it's unnecessary. I don't care nearly enough at this point to bother to argue about it, though.

    I can see where he was originally coming from, but there was absolutely no need to start with this "What that says about you" bull****.

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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    sweabs' opinion on the title of the forum award has nothing to do with his banning. I don't want anyone to wrongly believe otherwise.

    I understand the idea behind changing the name, though I could argue it's unnecessary. I don't care nearly enough at this point to bother to argue about it, though.

    I can see where he was originally coming from, but there was absolutely no need to start with this "What that says about you" bull****.
    Is the banning at all related to this thread, or was there a separate incident?
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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood View Post
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    Is the banning at all related to this thread, or was there a separate incident?
    I think choosing to insinuate I'm a bigot (or at least using words that left me legitimately taking it that way) is the only incident necessary to warrant that response.

    If he didn't mean it, he did a horrible job of explaining himself. First I asked him what it meant, and he dodged it, then I called him out, and he didn't exactly rush to clarify that he wasn't calling me a bigot.

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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    UGH.

    It's a stupid name change to something that fits better. Does it really HAVE to be anything more than that?

    Seems to be an enormous amount of overthinking/overanalyzing/overreacting going on, but that's just my opinion?



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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I think choosing to insinuate I'm a bigot (or at least using words that left me legitimately taking it that way) is the only incident necessary to warrant that response.

    If he didn't mean it, he did a horrible job of explaining himself. First I asked him what it meant, and he dodged it, then I called him out, and he didn't exactly rush to clarify that he wasn't calling me a bigot.
    No, I agree that's what was insinuated, whether that's what he intended or not. Also kind of why I hinted at the problematize thing. What you banned him for is basically the way most humanities scholars talk these days.

    And Infinite, I don't think it's a lazy use of language. Un- and non- are a part of our language for a reason. I think it takes an extremely ungenerous mindset to read non-American in this context (a forum for an American basketball league) as a statement of raging ethnocentrism rather than something like "best fan from a continent other than the one which this league plays in."

    Also, I notice no one has balked at non-Pacer. Surely rimfire doesn't identify as a non-Pacer fan, right?
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    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Hoy cow. I didn't notice the kid got banned.

    That just makes me sad. I can only hope for a reversal.
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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood View Post
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    I think it takes an extremely ungenerous mindset to read non-American in this context (a forum for an American basketball league) as a statement of raging ethnocentrism rather than something like "best fan from a continent other than the one which this league plays in."
    THANK YOU. That was my whole point (along with what Pig Nash said) in the first damn place.

    But apparently "what that says about me" isn't very nice, indeed.....

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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Bye bye, fun thread.
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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    sweabs' opinion on the title of the forum award has nothing to do with his banning. I don't want anyone to wrongly believe otherwise.

    I understand the idea behind changing the name, though I could argue it's unnecessary. I don't care nearly enough at this point to bother to argue about it, though.

    I can see where he was originally coming from, but there was absolutely no need to start with this "What that says about you" bull****.
    With all due respect, it seems to me that you were the first person to imply that someone's line of thinking was "wrong" by calling the request "highly, highly, oversensitive". Is that not a bit of a "veiled accusation" in itself? I found your response to be a lot more oversensitive than the initial idea, which was to find a more accurate terminology to describe a poster not from America.

    I think you are reading a little too much into the supposed "implications" of his post. I think you were both making implications from the get go.
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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    THANK YOU. That was my whole point (along with what Pig Nash said) in the first damn place.

    But apparently "what that says about me" isn't very nice, indeed.....
    Yes. But that said, posters here have done things far worse and not been banned. Or at least that's my impression. Like Kesty, I think he was off-target, but to my untrained eyes, it seemed like a minor faux pas, and not a bannable thing. I too hope to see sweabs back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Bye bye, fun thread.
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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    With all due respect, it seems to me that you were the first person to imply that someone's line of thinking was "wrong" by calling the request "highly, highly, oversensitive". Is that not a bit of a "veiled accusation" in itself?
    Being labeled highly sensitive does not equate to being labeled a bigot.

    I found your response to be a lot more oversensitive than the initial idea, which was to find a more accurate terminology to describe a poster not from America.

    I think you are reading a little too much into the supposed "implications" of his post. I think you were both making implications from the get go.
    Sure, but one of us made a post that could be interpreted as "You're a bigot", and the other one did not.

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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood View Post
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    And Infinite, I don't think it's a lazy use of language. Un- and non- are a part of our language for a reason. I think it takes an extremely ungenerous mindset to read non-American in this context (a forum for an American basketball league) as a statement of raging ethnocentrism rather than something like "best fan from a continent other than the one which this league plays in."

    Also, I notice no one has balked at non-Pacer. Surely rimfire doesn't identify as a non-Pacer fan, right?
    I think context is important here. I don't think Sweabs was trying to implly being offended at the use of the term "non-american", just saying "hey, as long as we are changing stuff, couldn't we figure out a better term for this?"

    If someone was actually offended by that, I would also find it pretty stupid... I don't think that was the idea.
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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood View Post
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    Yes. But that said, posters here have done things far worse and not been banned. Or at least that's my impression. Like Kesty, I think he was off-target, but to my untrained eyes, it seemed like a minor faux pas, and not a bannable thing. I too hope to see sweabs back.
    All I know is, if I think someone's calling me a bigot, they're out.

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    Default Re: The 2010 PD Forum Awards! (Nominations and Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Being labeled highly sensitive does not equate to being labeled a bigot.



    Sure, but one of us made a post that could be interpreted as "You're a bigot", and the other one did not.
    I didn't read it as you being called a bigot. I read it more like "You are oversensitive" response being "Perhaps YOU are the one who is oversensitive".

    I think throwing the term "bigot" in there is a pretty big jump, but that is just how I read it.
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