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Thread: legal question for all the law buffs out there

  1. #26
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: legal question for all the law buffs out there

    Well, I understand your situation. Just trying to save you future hassle. I think you'll have a good time either way. Good luck and have a good party!
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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  3. #27
    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: legal question for all the law buffs out there

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    That's one way to look at it, but the more important way to look at it is if you get some buzz, people will constantly go to this other guy's website. Why encourage people to accidentally go to a competitor's site? Original and unique. And with an available ".com".
    If you get the trademark first, you can then stop THEM from using it.
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

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  5. #28
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    Default Re: legal question for all the law buffs out there

    Quote Originally Posted by bellisimo View Post
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    Once again thanks for that free advice, I appreciate it. Here is the thing though, this is not something i'm in by myself - we are a group of 4 and the other guys are really stuck on this name and are hating anything else we come up with.

    This is just going to be a name for one of the parties we throw - it will not be the brand of our group/image - we have another name and a website for that - in other words this is something like "ladies nights" - and i'm pretty sure people don't go around saying that "ladies nights" is mine!

    We will be organizing this party for a small club with a capacity of 300 people in Budapest, Hungary. The other guy out there is in UK. He doesn't even have .com site...his is .co.uk showing that he is only in the UK market.

    To be blunt it will take us a couple of years to actually receive such a following where people outside of Hungary will know about us...
    No, I'm pretty sure there's some Yanks, Danes, and Brits that already know of you. But I defer to LA on this, I only know what I've read of similar situations, it could cause an expensive rift bringing bad publicity.
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

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  7. #29
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: legal question for all the law buffs out there

    Quote Originally Posted by bellisimo View Post
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    yup - they have not registered a trademark...which means we might actually go ahead with it...
    Not registered anywhere at all, or not registered in your jurisdiction?

    I stronly recommend that you retain a lawyer that you trust... there are some out there ()... any time you start a business venture, but especially when your primary assets are intangible.

    Not that I mind the work... as there are plenty of intellectual property disputes/ fights to keep my line of work highly chargeable.

    In fact, if your competitors didn't think far enough forward and retain a good IP lawyer that assisted them with registering their intellectual property then you might be in a position to leapfrog them.

    You get what you pay for... lots of entrepreneurs like to cut corners on this type of thing. You'll almost certainly end up in the no-fun place LA describes if you don't make the right investment up front. It may not be the tradename, there are plenty of other options. But a good lawyer can help you understand the risks of proceeding. You really don't want to end up wasting all your time fighting someone else over this. If you can legally leapfrog and stop them (or even better... make them pay you a royalty for using your registered/ protected name) then that's one thing, but spending time in court and depositions is a crappy way to run a business.

    And as a little bit of personal advise -- these types of partnerships are risky because when the business is starting out, everyone is gung-ho and on the same page. So they don't take time up front to construct good partnerships/ ownership agreements. Then sometime later, someone gets greedy (or someone's soon-to-be ex-wife gets greedy) or makes a bad business decision or loses interest and then it gets ugly. If you haven't already, get a good partnership/ contract lawyer so that it is clearly defined up front what should take place if it unfortunately goes sour.

    Good luck.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
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  9. #30
    International Counter bellisimo's Avatar
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    Default Re: legal question for all the law buffs out there

    we've searched the databases of Europe and US. Didn't bother checking Asia to be honest cause i didn't see anything relating to Asia in our internet searches before.

    All the EU countries along with EU's international database came out empty...same with US..so there is nothing registered with the name we want to use.

    thanks for the personal advice...we're hoping it never gets to that as we are best friends who has been doing this for over a year now with other concepts/names...the only reason why i am with them at this moment is cause they have shown over and over that they are correct when it comes to their word and they don't have any wives or soon to be ex-wives to put a dent in to it...but if things do pick up i'll definitely look for the option to arrange some sort of a contract/paperwork to keep my *** safe as money does corrupt people...even the good ones...

  10. #31
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    Default Re: legal question for all the law buffs out there

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    If you get the trademark first, you can then stop THEM from using it.
    You and what army of lawyers?

    Trademarking a name that you are already aware is in use by another party is an issue that can later invalidate your mark even after it is already issued.

    This depends on many detail that I won't get into.

    Once you have a mark, the ONLY way to get someone to stop using a web address or the mark in general is through litigation that results in a court order. Tens of thousands of dollars at minimum for a case that is not a slam-dunk.

    Everyone needs to read the advice of the attorney: "Waste of time, money and energy" ... "Lot of trouble"

    These words were chosen carefully by someone who choses their words carefully as a profession.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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  12. #32

    Default Re: legal question for all the law buffs out there

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles
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    These words were chosen carefully by someone who choses their words carefully as a profession.
    Snasslefrass! Comeuppance! Hootenanny!

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  14. #33
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    Default Re: legal question for all the law buffs out there

    Too much?
    Last edited by Los Angeles; 05-27-2010 at 12:28 PM.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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    Default Re: legal question for all the law buffs out there


  16. #35
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    Default Re: legal question for all the law buffs out there

    Quote Originally Posted by btowncolt View Post
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    Snasslefrass! Comeuppance! Hootenanny!
    I hold you contempt.

    (I have a feeling you need to get used to hearing this...)

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  18. #36
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    Default Re: legal question for all the law buffs out there

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Everyone needs to read the advice of the attorney: "Waste of time, money and energy" ... "Lot of trouble"
    And if you ask an IP litigator, they'll tell you that you might be able to win and that its worth the cost if you do. Don't forget there is a subset of the legal community that makes its entire living off "lot of trouble."



    Not saying its bad advise, because it is certainly good advise and Bellisimo should (a) strongly consider it and (b) strongly insist that his friends consider following it as well. But the more attorneys you ask, the more you'll find this answer isn't universal for everyone. And Bellisimo's partners "can" shop around until they find an opinion they like if they think its worth "a lot of trouble."

    I see a lot of red flags here. Don't get me wrong. But some people's red flags are other people's opportunities. Depending on their stubborness, I would proceed very cautiously with this business relationship.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  19. #37
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: legal question for all the law buffs out there

    There's a concept in litigation that is very close to establishing "pot odds" when playing poker.

    Let's pretend it will cost $1 to sue someone. and you can get $3 back if you win. that puts your return at 3:1. Let's say your chances of winning the suit are 50/50, or 1:1. Well, the "pot odds" say that you always make that bet, because over time you will win half the time but triple your money when you do. Try enough cases and over time you will come out on top. Congratulations, you're a professional litigator.

    Odds making like that only works when you consider several suits over time.

    If, like Belli and his pals, you are only talking about one occurrence, You need to say it this way: "You're going to give someone $500,000. And you will have a 50% chance of losing that money forever." Suddenly, the legal action is unaffordable regardless of the potential return. If you go ahead anyway, congratulations, you're just gambling and gambling isn't good business.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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  21. #38
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: legal question for all the law buffs out there

    If you haven't already, get a good partnership/ contract lawyer so that it is clearly defined up front what should take place if it unfortunately goes sour.
    Quoted for emphasis....
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  23. #39
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    Default Re: legal question for all the law buffs out there

    As someone who has dealt with trademark and trademark law (I had a lawyer who was great) when I started my business let me just saw two things.

    1. LA is correct. That was the same advice I received, and I thought I would never think of a new name for my company. I actually paid someone to help me come up with a company name, but I just did not like any of his names. After a year of sleeping on it (not literally ) I came up with another name. The company whose name I wanted did not take it, but I just did not want to take any chances (plus they already owned the domain name)

    2. Jay@section222 is correct. It is a gamble and you may win. If you ask around enough you will get the answer you want. With that in mind remember if you take the cautious route and put money up front (I do not want to think about how much I spent on trademarking names and logos) chances are it will save you lots of time and money (both of which are important in any business)

    Of course if you take the game and it all pays off and you have no trouble, then it is all moot.

    Good luck!

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