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Thread: golden state revisited

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    Default golden state revisited

    First off i am very hesitant to post this just for the backlash i would recieve just for insinuating it could happen. so let the record show that i am not for or against this happening but, the trades the pacers have made in the past sometimes make you scratch your head anyway.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

    Incoming owner Joe Lacob did interviews on radio and TV on Tuesday and revealed some of his thoughts on the Warriors.

    According to Tim Kawakami of the San Jose Mercury News, Lacob said he will be very active on the basketball side of the organization. Lacob added that he liked the trade for David Lee and his $80 million contract. Futher, Lacob indicated he's not sure Don Nelson should coach the team this upcoming season, and that the club's salaries won't exceed the luxury-tax threshold.

    Kawakami wrote the following about potential trades: "Lacob sounded a lot more excited about Lee and Stephen Curry than he did about Monta Ellis and Andris Biedrins. Nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't presume that these guys will definitely be traded. But it's also something everybody in the league will be watching."


    Monta Ellis love him or hate him, he is a very good player especially since he was drafted 40th in 05 same as our boy lance. Golden states owners last year also were rumored to having ellis on the block. You can bet they want him gone soon for the reason that they aren't in love with him longterm next to curry. curry needs to get shot of his own. ellis while he shoots a high percentage he takes alot of shots. He averaged 25.5 5.3apg 4.0rpg shooting .449 for the year and averaging 22 shots per game.

    With golden state wanting ellis gone he could be rather cheap considering they really just want to cap relief so they can continue to rebuild and would probably take draft picks and a young talent. they wouldnt want ford most likely but they may not mind since his contracts is up at the end of the season. there pgs would be curry ford and lin. you got your best player a veteran and a rookie which is how most nba rosters look at pg. this would be our only offer though since they aren't taking murphy or duleavy back but, would be funny if they did.

    ellis's contract is 11mil per year for the next four years.

    Once again i am not for this or against this. i know job would like him but, he could prove very bad for our young development.

    just want to get peoples opinon on what they think of monta and what other teams you think he would be good with?

    maybe he can go to new jersey and they can send us devin and we send golden state ford. new jersey get a very good talent in ellis we get our pg and golden state gets alot of money off their books.

    there has been talks of us being the third team in a pual trade so why not an ellis trade.
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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers2012 View Post
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    ellis's contract is 11mil per year for the next four years.

    Once again i am not for this or against this. i know job would like him but, he could prove very bad for our young development.

    just want to get peoples opinon on what they think of monta and what other teams you think he would be good with?

    maybe he can go to new jersey and they can send us devin and we send golden state ford. new jersey get a very good talent in ellis we get our pg and golden state gets alot of money off their books.

    there has been talks of us being the third team in a pual trade so why not an ellis trade.

    where have you heard talks of the pacers being a third team involved in a Paul trade other than on PD. just wondering since ive heard nothing like that.

    in regard to ellis, cant say one way or another, havent watched most of his games, but as you eluded to, he is shoot first pass second type of pg, and im not sure that is the best move for this type of team, esp. considering his salary. would rather take a shorter contract like hinrich and address the pg position next offseason via the draft.

    bottom line, ellis may be a very talented player, but if were gonna overpay, it might as well be for horford not ellis.

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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    where have you heard talks of the pacers being a third team involved in a Paul trade other than on PD. just wondering since ive heard nothing like that.

    in regard to ellis, cant say one way or another, havent watched most of his games, but as you eluded to, he is shoot first pass second type of pg, and im not sure that is the best move for this type of team, esp. considering his salary. would rather take a shorter contract like hinrich and address the pg position next offseason via the draft.

    bottom line, ellis may be a very talented player, but if were gonna overpay, it might as well be for horford not ellis.
    I think we have the money to overpay both.

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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    where have you heard talks of the pacers being a
    bottom line, ellis may be a very talented player, but if were gonna overpay, it might as well be for horford not ellis.
    ellis is not overpaid if you look at his stats. his stats are better then grangers across the board and they make around the same money. granger will make 6mil more then ellis over the next 4yrs. i dont think ellis would be good for our team but, he could open the doors to a 3way deal possibly since i see golden state wanting an expiring contract or young talent and a pick.
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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    I would take Ellis over Horford in a heartbeat with the talent that guy has. I think Monta Ellis is one of the most undervalued players in the league.
    JOB is a silly man

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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers2012 View Post
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    ellis is not overpaid if you look at his stats. his stats are better then grangers across the board and they make around the same money. granger will make 6mil more then ellis over the next 4yrs..
    Well in this case, don't look at his stats. For the most part he's an incredibly inefficient chucker. Would he look better or worse away from Golden State? That's the concern with taking on Ellis. Also, his defense is poor.

    He also isn't a point guard. He's a shooting guard. How much point did he even play last year? I thought Curry and Watson received the majority of the minutes at the point.

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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers2012 View Post
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    Kawakami wrote the following about potential trades: "Lacob sounded a lot more excited about Lee and Stephen Curry than he did about Monta Ellis and Andris Biedrins. Nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't presume that these guys will definitely be traded. But it's also something everybody in the league will be watching."
    Very good news for the Warriors.

    Lacob added that he liked the trade for David Lee
    A bit worrying for the Warriors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers2012 View Post
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    just want to get peoples opinon on what they think of monta and what other teams you think he would be good with?
    I think he'd be good playing alongside a playmaking wing and strong perimeter defenders for a team in need of go-to scoring ability. Like Orlando two seasons ago, with Hedo+Lee - Ellis in that Nelson/Alston role.

    Or next to a big PG. The problem with Ellis is that he's a short 2-guard with little to none game-management/playmaking/point-guard skills but who still demands the ball on his hands a lot of times and is high-maintenance in term of shots. I'm not a fan of Monta Ellis. Needs too much of the ball and doesn't do enough for others. On the top of that, he offers below average defense.

    Ideally, Monta Ellis could be a combo guard off the bench but his big a personality and has too big a reputation, and too big a contract, for that to happen.

    The Warriors should trade Ellis and Biedrins -- should have done it 1 year ago. Two flawed players that have been hindering their development.

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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    Having watched Ellis play here in Oakland many times, I can say he is electric and would be fun to watch in Indy. He can score in a variety of ways. I actually think he would play well in our system currently. He is great in the open court and can finish above the rim. Problem is his size, not a great defender, though I thought he was better this past season then previous years. Though I like him not sure I would take him in a deal. He is not going to be the point guard we need, and he is too small to guard the SG position. I agree GS will probably end up trading Biedrins and Monta at some point.
    Last edited by odeez; 07-29-2010 at 07:32 PM.
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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    I think Ellis would make the Pacers better.

    However I have some questions about him:

    - Is he winner? By that I mean does he do the little things it takes to win?
    - Is he a knucklehead?
    - Why isn't he a good defender? Is it him, his position, or his coach/team?
    - Hard worker or lazy?
    - Seems to have struggled with injuries the past 2 season. His health is a ?

    From what I know about him I don't think he is worth killing your roster flexibility at this point. Be patient and see what's there at the deadline or wait until next summer.

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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers2012 View Post
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    First off i am very hesitant to post this just for the backlash i would recieve just for insinuating it could happen. so let the record show that i am not for or against this happening but, the trades the pacers have made in the past sometimes make you scratch your head anyway.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

    Incoming owner Joe Lacob did interviews on radio and TV on Tuesday and revealed some of his thoughts on the Warriors.

    According to Tim Kawakami of the San Jose Mercury News, Lacob said he will be very active on the basketball side of the organization. Lacob added that he liked the trade for David Lee and his $80 million contract. Futher, Lacob indicated he's not sure Don Nelson should coach the team this upcoming season, and that the club's salaries won't exceed the luxury-tax threshold.

    Kawakami wrote the following about potential trades: "Lacob sounded a lot more excited about Lee and Stephen Curry than he did about Monta Ellis and Andris Biedrins. Nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't presume that these guys will definitely be traded. But it's also something everybody in the league will be watching."


    Monta Ellis love him or hate him, he is a very good player especially since he was drafted 40th in 05 same as our boy lance. Golden states owners last year also were rumored to having ellis on the block. You can bet they want him gone soon for the reason that they aren't in love with him longterm next to curry. curry needs to get shot of his own. ellis while he shoots a high percentage he takes alot of shots. He averaged 25.5 5.3apg 4.0rpg shooting .449 for the year and averaging 22 shots per game.

    With golden state wanting ellis gone he could be rather cheap considering they really just want to cap relief so they can continue to rebuild and would probably take draft picks and a young talent. they wouldnt want ford most likely but they may not mind since his contracts is up at the end of the season. there pgs would be curry ford and lin. you got your best player a veteran and a rookie which is how most nba rosters look at pg. this would be our only offer though since they aren't taking murphy or duleavy back but, would be funny if they did.

    ellis's contract is 11mil per year for the next four years.

    Once again i am not for this or against this. i know job would like him but, he could prove very bad for our young development.

    just want to get peoples opinon on what they think of monta and what other teams you think he would be good with?

    maybe he can go to new jersey and they can send us devin and we send golden state ford. new jersey get a very good talent in ellis we get our pg and golden state gets alot of money off their books.

    there has been talks of us being the third team in a pual trade so why not an ellis trade.
    We've already got a guy that gets 25pts but needs 20 shots to do it.
    Not enough shots to go around.
    And he's NOT a pg.

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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by MLB007 View Post
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    We've already got a guy that gets 25pts but needs 20 shots to do it.
    Not enough shots to go around.
    And he's NOT a pg.
    Danny - 18.4 shots - 24.1 points, TS - .564%, eFG .498%
    Monta - 22 shots - 25.5 points, TS - .517%, eFG .476%

    Danny, even though he took a step back in efficiency from the year before, is a much better scorer than Monta. I'll let him have his 18-19 shots a game as long as he keeps producing the way he does.

    And the year before, Danny took 19 shots to get 25.7 ppg. For anyone that still doesn't see just how much better a scorer Danny is than Monta.

    Monta Ellis is as much a point guard as Ben Gordon is. And I'd rather have a healthy Ben Gordon with his contract than I would Monta with his. And no, I don't want Ben Gordon either.
    Last edited by Ozwalt72; 07-29-2010 at 08:21 PM.

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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    As is, I wouldn't touch Ellis. At $5-6 mil a year playing limited mins
    as an 'instant offense' guy off the bench would be another story.

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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    If Lance pans out at PG being 6'5 he can guard the other teams SG while Ellis can guard the point. Just because your a SG does not mean you have to guard the other teams SG. Ellis would be welcome here he can score in bunches. He is just now entering his prime and his contract is decent for what he brings to the table. If we could get rid of Ford for him this is a win win. For those that want to wait for all the expirings to take effect so we can bring in a max player, there's not a lot out there, and no guarantee that they will come here. I would rather take a chance on a 11M player moving into his prime than overpay a player who really brings nothing than more mediocrity
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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by cordobes View Post
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    I think he'd be good playing alongside a playmaking wing and strong perimeter defenders for a team in need of go-to scoring ability. Like Orlando two seasons ago, with Hedo+Lee - Ellis in that Nelson/Alston role.

    Or next to a big PG. The problem with Ellis is that he's a short 2-guard with little to none game-management/playmaking/point-guard skills but who still demands the ball on his hands a lot of times and is high-maintenance in term of shots. I'm not a fan of Monta Ellis. Needs too much of the ball and doesn't do enough for others. On the top of that, he offers below average defense.

    Ideally, Monta Ellis could be a combo guard off the bench but his big a personality and has too big a reputation, and too big a contract, for that to happen.

    The Warriors should trade Ellis and Biedrins -- should have done it 1 year ago. Two flawed players that have been hindering their development.
    Pacers2012,

    I read that article you posted and debated on giving my take on it, but I figured, I'd let someone else be the sacrificial lamb. Thanks.

    Cordobes,

    We're like minded in our opinion of Monta being good beside a playmaking wing. I was indulging in some "what-if", in my head when I originally read that article. I wondered if we went with more of a team model like the Lakers, with Kobe doing the decisionmaking, or the former Cavs with Lebron, or the Heat with Wade.

    I wondered if a Monta/Granger combo might work, if you put them both in attack mode at all times, defering to each other as option #2. [Actually, I was thinking about the pros and cons of trading Murphy's expiring contract and parts to pick up Monta AND Biedris. (I was mulling over us doing a twin towers like Sampson/Hakeem, or Admiral/Duncan, not that there is a comparision, skillswise, but conceptually)]

    In my little scenario, I saw Andris being asked to play at his strength, hitting the boards and getting his points on putbacks. Kind of a Tyson Chandler role.

    I think people are forgetting that Andris has progressively gotten better each year in the league, OTHER than last year, which can be partially attributed to his injury.

    I actually would find the prospect of Andris at PF (I think he played PF before joining the NBA) in tandem with Roy, intriguing. If the coaching staff could work out the proper spacing for each of them, and clearly defined roles, I think they'd be onto something.

    As I mentioned earlier, I thought of a Lakers comparision, just in terms of kinda emulating their formula. Lakers have Bynum/Gasol to throw at ya, with Kobe doing the attacking. Wonder if we could work a version of that?

    So, Pacers2012, in long winded response, I wouldn't mind seeing Monta come here, simply because we need another dynamic player on the floor, but if that were to happen, I wouldn't be adverse to Andris coming with him. In our current system, I think Monta would thrive. I think a good team culture/environment helps control knucklehead behavior, as long as he's the only one. I wouldn't push for Ellis to come here, but I can see some merits to it. Color me interested, but neutral.
    Last edited by Skaut_Ech; 07-31-2010 at 03:48 PM.
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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech View Post
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    Actually, I was thinking about the pros and cons of trading Murphy's expiring contract and parts to pick up Monta AND Biedris.
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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by aceace View Post
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    If Lance pans out at PG being 6'5 he can guard the other teams SG while Ellis can guard the point. Just because your a SG does not mean you have to guard the other teams SG. Ellis would be welcome here he can score in bunches. He is just now entering his prime and his contract is decent for what he brings to the table. If we could get rid of Ford for him this is a win win. For those that want to wait for all the expirings to take effect so we can bring in a max player, there's not a lot out there, and no guarantee that they will come here. I would rather take a chance on a 11M player moving into his prime than overpay a player who really brings nothing than more mediocrity
    We pickup Ellis and play him and Lance in the back court, we might as well reacquire Stephon Jackson, Shawne Williams and David Harrison so I can switch the channel.

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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    Heaven forbid we pick up a 25 ppg scorer that also maintains a respectable fg percentage

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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    We pickup Ellis and play him and Lance in the back court, we might as well reacquire Stephon Jackson, Shawne Williams and David Harrison so I can switch the channel.
    What has Lance done to be associated with the latter three? Grab a girl's butt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    What has Lance done to be associated with the latter three? Grab a girl's butt?
    The problem I have with Lance Stephenson is that I think he's cut from the same cloth as the Marbury's, Iverson's, Tinsley's, SJax, etc. IOW, he has an attitude and is likely IMO to have character issues that lead to problems on and off the court. Those types of players have bad a** attitudes, are selfish and have an immature mentality.

    In some cases, such as with Rajon Rondo, it works out well. The difference though is that Rondo is extremely intelligent as well. The biggest concern I have is that I am certain that Lance has "that attitude" too and I think there is a very good chance he's not bright enough to overcome it. As a result, I expect a Tinsley or Marbury type of outcome...but I'm far from convinced he will be that talented at the game.

    At the same time, I will give the dude a chance. My hopes are simply not high...

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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    What evidence suggested to you that he has a bad attitude, or otherwise an attitude similar to those players you mentioned?

    What evidence suggested to you that he is 'not bright enough' to overcome said attitude?

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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    In some cases, such as with Rajon Rondo, it works out well. The difference though is that Rondo is extremely intelligent as well. The biggest concern I have is that I am certain that Lance has "that attitude" too and I think there is a very good chance he's not bright enough to overcome it.
    Okay, first, Rondo is intelligent? Who knew! Second, Lance's "issues" are supposedly left behind him in high school and he'd made significant progress in college. He had, what, a 3.5 GPA while at Cincinnati?

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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    What evidence suggested to you that he has a bad attitude, or otherwise an attitude similar to those players you mentioned?

    What evidence suggested to you that he is 'not bright enough' to overcome said attitude?
    His coach...what was it the teen Team USA squad?...basically said he was cancer in so many words and benched him. Call that eye witness testimony. Other GM's passed on him even though he clearly is a talented player...far more talented than some of the schmucks picked in the second round. Call that circumstantial evidence...which is used in courts of law for those who do not know that. Also, the way he plays the game from what I've seen. Cocky.

    As for intelligence, the jury is definitely out. However, he has been interviewed and rather than ripping on him directly I will leave it right there. He's a young guy who will get a chance. Let's see what he does with it. I truly hope I am wrong because I'd rather see the Pacers benefit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozwalt72 View Post
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    Okay, first, Rondo is intelligent? Who knew! Second, Lance's "issues" are supposedly left behind him in high school and he'd made significant progress in college. He had, what, a 3.5 GPA while at Cincinnati?
    Yes, Rondo is extremely intelligent actually.

    As for issues being left behind in high school, well, the dude is 19 right now. I've been around too long to buy that. With the money pouring in and without any supervision, I don't even want to guess how this is going to turn out. I'm just thankful Kellogg is on the staff.

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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Yes, Rondo is extremely intelligent actually.

    As for issues being left behind in high school, well, the dude is 19 right now. I've been around too long to buy that. With the money pouring in and without any supervision, I don't even want to guess how this is going to turn out. I'm just thankful Kellogg is on the staff.
    Then I'm not buying into Rondo getting past his attitude issues. Dude's trouble, they should trade him to those troublesome Pacers.

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    Default Re: golden state revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozwalt72 View Post
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    Then I'm not buying into Rondo getting past his attitude issues. Dude's trouble, they should trade him to those troublesome Pacers.
    maybe they'll throw us a bone since we got bird
    Last edited by Pacers2012; 08-01-2010 at 07:14 PM.
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