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Thread: And now...Mock Drafts!

  1. #26
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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Quote Originally Posted by SMosley21 View Post
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    To be as brief as possible, I'll just say that statement is flat out wrong.
    Perhaps you shouldn't be so brief.

    The guy everybody seems to be coveting, although I think he'll be gone before #10 is Udoh. Say he's not, and the Pacers take him.

    So we go into next season like this:

    Head Coach: Jim O'Brien

    Power Forwards: Troy Murphy, Tyler Hansbrough, Josh McRoberts, Epke Udoh

    Centers: Roy Hibbert, Jeff Foster

    Murphy will get his obligatory 30+ minutes per game. Foster and Hibbert will get probably at least 35 minutes at the center position. That leaves somewhere between 18-31 minutes for Hansbrough, McRoberts, and Udoh. Most of you are high on Hansbrough, I'm not, but I think he needs to be playing if he's healthy. I think McRoberts can give us everything that we claim to "need" out of our power forward. He's athletic, can really run the floor, and can block shots. Realistically, is Udoh or anyone else at that position going to be demonstratively better than him? I don't know much about Udoh or any of the other power forwards in this draft, but I do know that every attribute we claim to need, he showed the ability to develop if given a chance. Why keep drafting power forwards when we don't know if we already have what we need? If you want to say for the future depth after Murphy is gone, ok maybe, but I don't think you get a high quality starter at #10 in this draft.

    Now let's say the Pacers do something that I think would be the wrong move, but not nearly as outlandish as many of you seem to think, and take Hayward.

    Next season looks like this:

    Head Coach: Jim O'Brien

    Shooting Guards: Brandon Rush, Dhantay Jones

    Small Forwards: Danny Granger, Mike Dunleavy, Gordon Hayward

    Granger probably keeps his 35+. Rush may keep getting 30 minutes per game, but I'd doubt it if Dunleavy is "healthy." O'Brien clearly doesn't want to play Jones as much as I think he should. Would Hayward be serviceable for the same 10 minutes or so that Udoh/insert name here would get? I don't know how you can say he wouldn't. He's long, he's a good shooter, and I think he will prove to be a better athlete than most people are willing to give him credit for.

    Please note, I'm not advocating picking Hayward at 10, I'm just saying if we aren't taking a point guard, it makes just as much sense to take another wing as it does to take another power forward.

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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    If the Pacers draft Hayward I would not really care if they move out of the city, I would go as far as helping them with the u-haul
    Quote Originally Posted by SMosley21 View Post
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    This may be the first time I've ever agreed with you.
    I don't understand this line of thinking at all. Would he be the best pick for the Pacers at #10? I don't think so, but I'm almost positive that Hansbrough wasn't the best pick for us at #13 last year either and you didn't dump them then.

    Hayward is a local kid, a good guy, and he has a good chance to be a very high quality complimentary player. Sure, that isn't what we're hoping for, but that doesn't seem worthy of dumping your fan allegiance. Does anyone think he can't at least be as good as JJ Redick?

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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rupert Stilinski View Post
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    Does anyone think he can't at least be as good as JJ Redick?
    nope

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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    I'm surprised to see Greg Monroe within reach of the 10th spot in these mock drafts, he would be a steal if he fell that low.

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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rupert Stilinski View Post
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    I'm just saying if we aren't taking a point guard, it makes just as much sense to take another wing as it does to take another power forward.
    I have no problem taking a wing at #10. However, I have some qualifications that would need to be met by that wing. 1. He needs to be a scorer who can create his own shot. 2. He needs to be a real SG, not a SF. I need a guy to meet both of those or to be obviously the most talented player left. If Wesley Johnson or Aminu falls to #10, they fit the bill even though they don't fit my first two qualifications.

    I really hate that I'm going to have to spend every pick between 4 and 9 praying and hoping that both Aldrich and Ed Davis get drafted.

    Also, if Toronto does draft Avery Bradley and Bosh leaves and they can't find any takers for Calderon, I wonder if they'd be interested in getting Jack's contract off the books. It wouldn't be the huge talent upgrade we need, but I'd be really excited about watching a Jack/Price PG rotation next year.
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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rupert Stilinski View Post
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    Hayward is a local kid, a good guy, and he has a good chance to be a very high quality complimentary player. Sure, that isn't what we're hoping for, but that doesn't seem worthy of dumping your fan allegiance. Does anyone think he can't at least be as good as JJ Redick?
    I think he can be better than JJ Redick. However, I don't think it makes a ton of sense to bring in a complementary player who plays the same position as the guy he's supposed to complement.

    I don't love Hayward, but I don't dislike him either. However, he's a single position player: SF. He can't guard 2's and he can't guard 4's. Two things have been nearly unanimous around here over the past 3 seasons: 1. Nobody wants Granger to spend much time at PF 2. The Dunleavy/Granger 2/3 combo left a lot to be desired because neither one defends SG's very well. If you bring in Hayward, you're forcing yourself into one of those two situations.
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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Just saw on ESPN Jay Bilas has us taking James Anderson isn't that a reach for a wing player we don't need ?

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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacemaker View Post
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    Just saw on ESPN Jay Bilas has us taking James Anderson isn't that a reach for a wing player we don't need ?
    That wasn't a mock draft, it was just his opinionated list of best players available

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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Chad Ford better comes up with a better mock draft, this one is crap, Patterson in the 20's?
    Be pretty awesome for Portland.

    But yeah, not happening.
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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    yeah the next Dale Davis that guy is as soft as toilet paper
    Pretty much.
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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    here is the draft express mock draft

    http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2010/
    They just updated this and have us taking Ed Davis too.

    [edit] I'd like to think if given the choice Larry would pick Patterson over Davis. Maybe Davis has more talent but he was such a disappointment this year. Oh, who am I kidding, Larry'll take the Euro or trade the pick so it don't matter.
    Last edited by Kegboy; 05-19-2010 at 12:17 AM.
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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    http://www.nbadraft.net/2010mock_draft

    They have us taking Xavier Henry at #10 and then Greivis Vasquez in the 2nd round

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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Quote Originally Posted by pwee31 View Post
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    http://www.nbadraft.net/2010mock_draft

    They have us taking Xavier Henry at #10 and then Greivis Vasquez in the 2nd round
    Based on Ford's description of Henry, I would say that if he is there that we might actually pick him. Realistically, we only have Granger and Rush for future wings, and Henry wouldn't play under O'B anyway as a rookie, leaving Dunleavy a spot to play this year until his contract expires.

    Plus, Bird spoke of needs for both a big and a pg, not a wing, a classic misdirection move when in reality, we want a future three point bomber. If he were older, the odds would be even higher IMO.

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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    nope
    Well thats why your not Larry Bird. The Hayward pick would make even more sense if Bird moved dunleavy
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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    In all honesty, I may be going against the grain here, but I would draft James Anderson at 10.

    Assuming we made no other moves and JUST drafted.

    Price would be our best available PG either now OR through the draft.

    Granger is obvious we dont really need a 3.

    Murphy, Hans, and emergence of McBob make all the other bigs in this draft seem worthless to this pacer organization.

    Hibbert is the only other obvious next to Granger. He should be our Center for a long time to come.

    The only question I have is at the 2. Rush and Dahntay are primarily defensive players. Rush is a streaky outside shooter and outside of that is very limited offensively. Dahntay has shown the ability to get to the rim and foul line occasionally.

    James Anderson has a complete 2guard offensive package. which is why he has the ability over anybody around the 10 spot available, to fill the most gap in our roster.

    If you catch my drift.
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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    I'm starting to believe that Hayward is suffering from some sort of "reverse" hometown bias. I refuse to believe he is as bad of a prospect as some around here seem to think.

    Rupert has a pretty valid logical argument... is taking the *backup* wing of the future really any worse than taking the *backup* PF of the future for a roster already filled with *backup* PFs?

    Problem is, pretty weak draft past the top 5. Trade down or trade out is probably the most prudent course of action.
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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    i hope we trade down

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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    I'm starting to believe that Hayward is suffering from some sort of "reverse" hometown bias. I refuse to believe he is as bad of a prospect as some around here seem to think.

    Rupert has a pretty valid logical argument... is taking the *backup* wing of the future really any worse than taking the *backup* PF of the future for a roster already filled with *backup* PFs?

    Problem is, pretty weak draft past the top 5. Trade down or trade out is probably the most prudent course of action.
    The problem with Hayward, for me, has nothing to do with his skill or whether he will or won't make it in the NBA. I think he'll make it, and be a solid contributor, although probably a guy better suited as a 7th or 8th man. The problem for me is that being a local product, he would have a lot of pressure on him. Pressure to turn things around in Indiana, always having to hear the hometown fans critical of his every move, etc. As the 10th pick, he would be expected to play above what he is capable of for a team that he isn't really a great fit for.
    Last edited by cdash; 05-19-2010 at 01:32 PM.

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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    I'm starting to believe that Hayward is suffering from some sort of "reverse" hometown bias. I refuse to believe he is as bad of a prospect as some around here seem to think.

    Rupert has a pretty valid logical argument...
    I completely agree with this "reverse hometown bias" idea. I am certainly not a die-hard Butler fan, but I watch them often (it has to be the best value ticket in town), and I just don't understand the negativity surrounding this kid. He's not the "next Larry Bird," but he could be a very good player that I could see being worthy of the 10th pick. I'd prefer it didn't work out that way, but I wouldn't jump off a bridge if it did. I'd root just as hard for him as I would anyone else. If there was a way to work a deal and drop down a few spots and pick up a Bledsoe and Hayward, sign me up. That would be ideal.

    By the way... just call me Stylez.

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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    The problem with Hayward, for me, has nothing to do with his skill or whether he will or won't make it in the NBA. I think he'll make it, and be a solid contributor, although probably a guy better suited as a 7th or 8th man. The problem for me is that being a local product, he would have a lot of pressure on him. Pressure to turn things around in Indiana, always having to hear the hometown fans critical or his every move, etc. As the 10th pick, he would be expected to play above what he is capable of for a team that he isn't really a great fit for.
    A very solid point, and to be honest, something I hadn't even considered. I'm with you on him being best suited as a 7th or 8th man, and I think that's why I hadn't considered the pressure situation.

    My expectations are not for the 10th pick (no matter who he is) to turn this franchise around, but the local media would be all over Hayward. The pressure would indeed be immense.

    At least it would generate a little buzz though, for a team that is sorely in need of some.

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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    RE: Chad Ford's Mock

    I'd take Patrick Patterson before I took Ed Davis. Heck, I'd take Bledsoe or Bradley before Ed Davis....
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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rupert Stilinski View Post
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    A very solid point, and to be honest, something I hadn't even considered. I'm with you on him being best suited as a 7th or 8th man, and I think that's why I hadn't considered the pressure situation.

    My expectations are not for the 10th pick (no matter who he is) to turn this franchise around, but the local media would be all over Hayward. The pressure would indeed be immense.

    At least it would generate a little buzz though, for a team that is sorely in need of some.
    I think for most of us we do not expect to Hayward to come in and have the immediate impact like Granger. Hayward is definitely not a top 8 pick who slides becuase of some concerns, but the casual fans are not going to see that. They will see a lottery pick and hometown hero and expect him to step up. I think coming to the Pacers would be the worst thing for his development. The fans here will expect him to come in and immediately contribute or even save the franchise. Being the home town kid puts tremendous pressure on a guy.

    My big concern over Hayward is his drastic decrease in his 3-pt field goal percentage. I do not see Hayward as being the guy who consistently gets to the rim at the NBA level so he will have to knock down the three. I know some fans have said it decreased because of more attention he got defensively and that he will not get the same pressure at the NBA level. I am just concerned about that. With Reddick the guy improved all four years at Duke while the defensive pressure mounted.

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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    I like the projection of Ed Davis. For all the talk about BPA, by me, I see Ed as a really good fit with Hibbert. I remember watching Ed on that Championship team and thinking, wow, this guy has the ability to be an impact pro, even moreso than anyone on that team including Hansbrough and Lawson.

    Just my opinion, but Ed struck me, at that point, as raw and not as skilled as Hansbrough or Lawson, but physically much more impactful and gifted. His length and how mobile he was for a big. At least at the college level, he seemed to be a handful for opponents, especially from a disruptive defensive point, also in a guy who impacts plays outside of his area.

    I see him as a guy who could really supply much of whats missing on the team right now. I think he is maybe the victim of expectations in being rated in this draft. I see quite a bit of upside with him. Especially for a team lacking athleticism.

    I also think with about 15-20 pounds of muscle he'll be able to play 4 and 5, so you can play him with Hansbrough/McRoberts and Hibbert, imo.

    I'm excited to see his measureables.
    Last edited by Speed; 05-19-2010 at 09:32 AM.

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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Quote Originally Posted by thewholefnshow31 View Post
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    My big concern over Hayward is his drastic decrease in his 3-pt field goal percentage. I do not see Hayward as being the guy who consistently gets to the rim at the NBA level so he will have to knock down the three. I know some fans have said it decreased because of more attention he got defensively and that he will not get the same pressure at the NBA level. I am just concerned about that. With Reddick the guy improved all four years at Duke while the defensive pressure mounted.
    I can understand this concern, but I think it just depends one what kind of shooter you think he really is. Is he closer to the 45% shooter from three he was his freshman season, or is he closer to the sub 30% shooter he was last year?

    I never watched him in high school, but I know he was brought to Butler as a "lights out shooter." I think with his form and his height he will be much closer to his freshman year version.

    Redick's numbers might have improved, but he also has to be considered one of the greatest college shooters of all time. I'm not sure he's the best guy to compare shooting numbers to, but I can understand the concern. I just think he is a better shooter than those numbers indicated last season. I also think it is admirable that he found other ways to get his points and help the team when his outside shot wasn't falling.

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    Default Re: And now...Mock Drafts!

    Quote Originally Posted by pwee31 View Post
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    Are the Pacers really looking closely at Gordon Hayward?
    God, I hope not
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