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Thread: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

  1. #1

    Default Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    May 4, 2010
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    Big Roy will put the work in
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    http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsi...y_will_pu.html

    THE `BURBS - "What is the most important thing for the different parts of this puzzle to spend their offseason on? Conditioning, or establishing a more aggressive above-the-rim game for Hibbert?"

    Conditioning is always near the top of the list for Hibbert because he acknowledged a couple of times during the season that he got tired playing extending minutes. He'll definitely spend time working on his post game.

    You don't have to worry about Hibbert's work ethic. He enjoys putting in work in the gym.

    Assistant coach Dan Burke deserves a lot of credit for Hibbert's development in the post.

    Hibbert would often be the last player on the court after practice because he was putting in extra time working on his low-post game with Burke.
    The Pacers want to bring in a big man's coach to work with Hibbert during the summer. They're trying to figure out who that person will be. There's a possibility that Hall of Fame big man Kevin McHale could work with Hibbert.

    Can imagine what Hibbert's low-post game will be like next season if McHale works with him?




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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    Finally. McHale would be awesome, perfect, imo.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    The topic of a "big man coach" always cracks me up. I have no problem with bringing in a big man coach or having one on the staff. My point isn't that they are worthless. However so many of you act like only a former big man can coach a current big man. Many of you have been complaining about the Pacers lack of big man coach for years, and some of you have suggested if only, if only David Harrison had a big man coach.

    So bring in a big man coach, I won't complain, but I would also like to see a small man coach, a point guard coach, a shooting guard coach and wing player coach or a power forward coach - I don't see why having a "big Man coach" is more important than any of the ones I've mentioned.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    But Kevin McHale only made 41 three pointers in his career. Is that who we really want coaching Roy?

    But in all seriousness, that would be great if they could get McHale. It certainly couldn't hurt.
    WE ARE NOT GETTING ERIC GORDON

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    Hire Mel Daniels, he would be a great big man's coach!

  9. #6

    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    Maybe if Roy improves, JOB will let him play the final 3 minutes of a game in which he has scored a career high, is dominating the paint, and is THE reason the Pacers are ahead.... instead of benching him and GIVING the game to Washington.....

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  11. #7

    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleBuck
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    I would also like to see a small man coach, a point guard coach, a shooting guard coach and wing player coach or a power forward coach
    See, Peck? UncleBuck doesn't list a "stretch forward' coach on this list of needs, since the Pacers already have such a good one.



    (I don't know why I do this. I don't like Murphy's game nearly as much as my number of recent posts about him would suggest.)

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The topic of a "big man coach" always cracks me up. I have no problem with bringing in a big man coach or having one on the staff. My point isn't that they are worthless. However so many of you act like only a former big man can coach a current big man. Many of you have been complaining about the Pacers lack of big man coach for years, and some of you have suggested if only, if only David Harrison had a big man coach.

    So bring in a big man coach, I won't complain, but I would also like to see a small man coach, a point guard coach, a shooting guard coach and wing player coach or a power forward coach - I don't see why having a "big Man coach" is more important than any of the ones I've mentioned.
    That would be me It wasn't so necessary when they had the Big man school players could go to (was that in Hawaii? ) but now they don't have that and for the most part they are only spending a year in college. That leaves them no way to learn to play with the bigs except thru league experience and if that can be sped up via one-on-one with the men that have been over the river, so much the better.

    And we have Bill Keller who can teach them a few things about shooting and playing PG to boot.
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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    What is Terry Mills doing these days?

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The topic of a "big man coach" always cracks me up. I have no problem with bringing in a big man coach or having one on the staff. My point isn't that they are worthless. However so many of you act like only a former big man can coach a current big man. Many of you have been complaining about the Pacers lack of big man coach for years, and some of you have suggested if only, if only David Harrison had a big man coach.

    So bring in a big man coach, I won't complain, but I would also like to see a small man coach, a point guard coach, a shooting guard coach and wing player coach or a power forward coach - I don't see why having a "big Man coach" is more important than any of the ones I've mentioned.
    Maybe it's better to call it a low post coach.

    It really is different to me to teach and learn to play down low than what a regular player will encounter.

    I won't call it a speciality, but it is unique these days.

    It's the problem I have with many of the current generation of big men, they mostly all want to play on the perimeter and shoot jump shots. I'm not saying you can't have those skills, but many can't post up in any fashion.

    The uniqueness of a low post game and therefore Roy has become very valuable, imo.

    So, to have a guy who was great at it, maybe one of the best, in McHale come in (or like him) is a great idea, I think. Really only Hakeem is the only other guy I'd prefer over him.

    I hope it happens, you have a willing student in Roy, why not give him every possible opportunity.

    I wouldn't limit it to Roy, I mean D Jones has the makings of being very good down low in the post. Others could learn too. We've discussed how Murphy and Dunleavy's inability to post up basically nullifies their potential advantages. I'd love to see those two not being able to be guarded by smaller players because they have a low post game of SOME kind.

    For D. Jones, if you could use him down there, it maximizes his strengths (strength, quickness, atleticism) while minimizing his weaknesses (perimeter shooting).

  17. #11

    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    Here's a serious question.

    Roy spent four years at Georgetown, a school with a good tradition and a good coach. What does he particularly need to learn to make a bigger splash in the NBA?

    The question probably has two answers: a facetious one for as long as O'Brien is the coach, and a more serious one for the future.

    I would have through the answer was conditioning and speed. What else does he need to develop, that a tutor can help with? Or is it really a matter of doing enough repetitions to develop instinctive movement?





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  18. #12
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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Maybe it's better to call it a low post coach.

    It really is different to me to teach and learn to play down low than what a regular player will encounter.

    I won't call it a speciality, but it is unique these days.

    It's the problem I have with many of the current generation of big men, they mostly all want to play on the perimeter and shoot jump shots. I'm not saying you can't have those skills, but many can't post up in any fashion.

    The uniqueness of a low post game and therefore Roy has become very valuable, imo.

    So, to have a guy who was great at it, maybe one of the best, in McHale come in (or like him) is a great idea, I think. Really only Hakeem is the only other guy I'd prefer over him.

    I hope it happens, you have a willing student in Roy, why not give him every possible opportunity.

    I wouldn't limit it to Roy, I mean D Jones has the makings of being very good down low in the post. Others could learn too. We've discussed how Murphy and Dunleavy's inability to post up basically nullifies their potential advantages. I'd love to see those two not being able to be guarded by smaller players because they have a low post game of SOME kind.

    For D. Jones, if you could use him down there, it maximizes his strengths (strength, quickness, atleticism) while minimizing his weaknesses (perimeter shooting).
    I think Buck's basic issue was with this idea that so-and-so was a good big man when he played, so let's get him to teach Roy a few things.

    Problem is, a lot of the names that get bandied about around here - Dale, Mel, Rik, have shown no real aptitude for coaching. That is more important than the "been there, done that" aspect. The best "Big Man" coach ever was Pete Newell, who grew the "Pete Newell Big Man Camp" that geezer alluded to earlier out of individual workouts with Kermit Washington. Newell was a not a big man, he was just a damn good coach.

    If you can't effectively communicate and teach the position, then you're down to just giving pointers. Why hire a full time guy for that? Just bring 'em in for weekend, and be done with it.

    That being said, I like the idea of Kevin McHale, because I think he's shown some aptitude for coaching. He was 19-12 in his first stint with Minny, and he had last year's Wolves headed in a good direction before Jefferson went down for the year.

    I think he's got the ability to help Roy with moves, both from an experiential and (more importantly) teaching aspect.

    Also, if they do hire him as a full-time assistant, I would think that they're essentially hiring O'Brien's successor.
    Last edited by count55; 05-05-2010 at 03:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    It wasn't so necessary when they had the Big man school players could go to (was that in Hawaii? )
    Yep, here is some stuff from back in the day, '99 I think it was. Bender, Foster, Al Harrington, and Austin were all there.


    Story from there.

    http://jonathanbender.8m.com/bigmen.html


    Images (at the bottom)

    http://jonathanbender.8m.com/picturegalleryii.html

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Many of you have been complaining about the Pacers lack of big man coach for years, and some of you have suggested if only, if only David Harrison had a big man coach.
    Guilty as charged! Though I wsa on record as thinking "if only Harrison had a big man coach AND a lobotomy."
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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    I love the idea and believe it will make a difference. If I remember correctly Tree Rollins was a good teacher while here and really focused on defending the post. So there is more to it than just the offensive side of the ball.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    Finally, a turnaround in attitude from last summer when, during a season ticket sales event I attnded, I asked Morway if the Pacers would consider getting a big man coach for our young bigs to teach them the fundamentals of footwork and positioning so that they would have a more powerful presence both offnesively and defensively in the low post.

    At that time, Morway looked shocked that anyone would ask him that question, then responded that, while there had been a little discussion about that from time to time, they felt that the current coaching staff was doing a good job of developing the big men, while also saying that it is difficult to say what exactly a big man coach would do because there are so many theories about how a big man should play. Lastly, he asked the rhetorical question of "Who would that be?" without waiting for any responses, and that most of them probably already have jobs anyway, so they felt that what they were doing was working well.

    Hopefully this is what they are using the savings from firing Big Smooth and Harter's retirement for.

    If it is McHale, IMO the players who would benefit even more than Roy from learning McHale's style of play would be McRoberts and Hansbrough, but Roy would too. Since I am assuming that Murphy is on his way out I am leaving him out of this post, and Solo as well.

    Personally, I would love to see Dale Davis come in as a big man coach for Roy. If he could impart some of his physicality and mental toughness into Roy, suddenly Roy would become a more significant player for us going forward.

    Regardless, this is fantastic news, and gives me more hope that the franchise is not simply in sellout mode, and should be a better team going forward if this big man coach, whoever it ends up being, has success.
    Last edited by Brad8888; 05-05-2010 at 10:22 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    That would be me It wasn't so necessary when they had the Big man school players could go to (was that in Hawaii? ) but now they don't have that and for the most part they are only spending a year in college. That leaves them no way to learn to play with the bigs except thru league experience and if that can be sped up via one-on-one with the men that have been over the river, so much the better.

    And we have Bill Keller who can teach them a few things about shooting and playing PG to boot.
    I agree with you. They also have Lester Conner, who can work with the guards. As far as a big man coach, I think it always helps to have someone talented, who has actual on the court experience, help teach the nuances of the position. Not to mention, the dirty tricks of the trade.

    I think the big man camp you mentioned was the late Pete Newell's camp.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    Here's a serious question.

    Roy spent four years at Georgetown, a school with a good tradition and a good coach. What does he particularly need to learn to make a bigger splash in the NBA?

    The question probably has two answers: a facetious one for as long as O'Brien is the coach, and a more serious one for the future.

    I would have through the answer was conditioning and speed. What else does he need to develop, that a tutor can help with? Or is it really a matter of doing enough repetitions to develop instinctive movement?
    Didn't Georgetown use him in more of a high post game? Seems I remember something about that.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    but I would also like to see a small man coach, a point guard coach, a shooting guard coach and wing player coach or a power forward coach
    I agree with you on this one, with a coach like the one the Pacers have right now it does not make any sense to have a "big man coach" so are they going to use the same coach to teach Dunleavy, Granger, Murphy and DJ how to play center and power forward?

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    I think of it as a skill set, not positional coaching. Billy Keller was a shooting instructor, not a small man coach. He worked with everyone. You don't have to be a PF or Center to post up. Mark Jackson was very good at it, so was GP back in the day.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    By the way I like the idea of having a "big man coach" but why is Roy going to practice all this if the current coach is not going to use him that way?

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I think of it as a skill set, not positional coaching. Billy Keller was a shooting instructor, not a small man coach. He worked with everyone. You don't have to be a PF or Center to post up. Mark Jackson was very good at it, so was GP back in the day.
    Right. "Big man coach" might be a misnomer, but "low post coach" and "shooting coach" are legit needs of a well-rounded NBA team.
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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    By the way I like the idea of having a "big man coach" but why is Roy going to practice all this if the current coach is not going to use him that way?
    Come on now. Even the most anti-JOB folks shouldn't start pretending like we didn't use Roy in the low post; we did and we will again.

    The issue was that it wasn't used often enough, not that it wasn't used at all.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    I gave up on the notion of a big man coach when I realized our new coaching staff had no interest in playing big. Our big man coach might as well just be in Ft. Wayne.
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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a 'big-man coach' for Roy

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Come on now. Even the most anti-JOB folks shouldn't start pretending like we didn't use Roy in the low post; we did and we will again.

    The issue was that it wasn't used often enough, not that it wasn't used at all.
    He was not used enough, does not get the ball enough and he is starting to shoot threes.

    I also think that JOB prefers to have Roy shooting jumpers than playing inside because that can "stretch the floor"

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