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Thread: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Since 2000, music has been in a full renaissance period. Very few eras have equaled the diversity, creativity and ... well ... quality of music of the last ten years. (The 60's being far and above any time period for virtually every genre, of course)

    Here's the difference between this era and the ones before it: This era isn't happening on your radio or your television. The music on your radio and your television, including (but not limited to) R&B, Modern Country and the American Idol Teen Hit Machine mostly sucks donkey butt. That's an offensive image because "hit-making" has reached it's most offensive level since the Orlando mindrape of the national consciousness in the late 1990's.
    Brilliant observation and absolutely true imo.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Maybe musicians will have to.... egads... perform live....

    I read an article in Parade magazine a couple of years ago that basically said that while CD sales are down, overall record company profits were up. They were just picking and choosing what part of their overall sales they let you know about in order to create some sympathy for their big brother copyright schemes and lobbying efforts.

    Putnam's article seems to counter that.

    So which is true?
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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    As a side note.... I wonder what would happen if someone created a music television network that would promote and expose new artists and new material by existing artists thru music videos?

    But then you couldn't do that because where would you put all the trashy youth driven reality TV shows?
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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    The record companies and promoters make a ton of money from shows. $30 for a silk-screened t-shirt!? WTF?
    Neither the record companies or the promoters make a single dime off of the merchandise. The merchandise money is just about the only thing keeping most artists fed.

    Period.
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  6. #30
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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I don't think that gives the industry a shred of comfort.
    Didn't think it would. But whether the truth comforts them isn't necessarily relevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    But the notion that piracy of intellectual property is okay -- and rationalizing that it is not stealing -- is really chipping away at the foundation of our civilization.
    It's not stealing, Jay. It's not. That doesn't mean it's ok, but it's not theft.

    NOTE: I don't have or use any file-sharing software (except BT, of course, but that's entirely for legit purposes).
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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Quote Originally Posted by bellisimo View Post
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    this is more like big brother:

    The RIAA and MPAA have submitted a plan to the Office of Intellectual Property Enforcement. It's basically a plan that they want the government to enact, and it's terrifying.



    http://gizmodo.com/5517850/riaampaa-...-automatically
    Gawd, I'm so sick of all this ****. I think the next time I buy a computer I'm going to make it a dinosaur that's completely disconnected from the internet, and simply use the library when I need to research something. Maybe others don't care about all the 'big brother'-type behavior-tracking crap, but it's kind of sickened me.
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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Great thread and some debates...

    Try this on for size...

    I recently saw a interview with Jason DeRulo or what ever his name was.. he said he recorded over 300 songs for his album and yet only put 10-12 on his CD...

    What does this suggest...

    I for one, if he recorded 300 songs would like to see more then a pissy 10-12 on his CD, make it a double CD feature, 20-26 songs, make it worth buying for the people...


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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    I'm not sure that intellectual property theft is hurting the music/ recording industry as much as is alleged.

    But the notion that piracy of intellectual property is okay -- and rationalizing that it is not stealing -- is really chipping away at the foundation of our civilization.
    Yeah right. Our copyright and intellectual property laws are largely inane. I'm not interested enough in digital music to "steal" it, but I'm not exactly bothered that so many people do.

    Of course, if they wind up really loving a certain artist's work, I would hope that they find a way to support them. In music this could be simply showing up their show, etc., but then again there are means of valuable support that aren't solely financial. . .

    In general I don't "steal" music, but I also don't buy it very often. The idea that I should pay 10+ bucks to see if I even like an album is stupid. (For me it takes many, many re-listens to determine if I like an album.)
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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    I do not even download music illigaly, but I do have a lot of friends who do. Admittedly, I have seen the numbers go down from when I was in high school.

    With that said if they really like an artist they will buy his or her music. They are just now willing to pay for someone that is unknown or an outrageous price for one CD (or movie)

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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Record industries are a thing of the past now, they are becoming more and more out-dated every single day. They are just not necessary for a band to be successful and get their music out now.

    Angels and Airwaves just released their newest record for free via their website. They aren't on a label at all. Now Tom DeLonge having a studio at his house is a huge asset as they don't need to go to a studio to record, but there are studios that rent out time for bands to record. They had over 500,000 downloads of their record in the first 48 hours of its release just from their website. I believe now its somewhere near the one million mark. Their idea is get the music out for free, then a certain amount of fans will become members of their website, Modlife, and pay for exclusive access from the band such as pay-per-views(free to members), get to see the sound check and early entrance at concerts, daily updates from the band, talk to the band via video chat and other stuff. They do make money off of it too, thats how they are funding the filming of their movie.

    Like it was brought up earlier, record sales don't factor in much to the money an artist makes. Thats where touring and merchandise comes in.

    I encourage you guys to check out Modlife, they have probably about 20 artists on there now, always adding new ones too. I think it can really show the direction of the music industry, away from record companies and becoming independent. Also by being independent, bands get to collect the royalties on their music instead of the record companies. This actually allows the artist to own their own music.

  13. #36
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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Maybe if we start with some reasonable limit on copyrights. Say 20 years?

    Writing a single hit when your 20 should not entitle you and your heirs not have to work another day in your life.

    Stuff is supposed to go into the public domain at some point.

    Speaking of "stealing", the way business interests have continually pushed for and gotten passed copyright extensions almost to infinity is stealing from the public culture. That's a much greater crime that some 16 year old downloading a bunch of music he'd never buy anyway.
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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    Maybe if we start with some reasonable limit on copyrights. Say 20 years?

    Writing a single hit when your 20 should not entitle you and your heirs not have to work another day in your life.

    Stuff is supposed to go into the public domain at some point.

    Speaking of "stealing", the way business interests have continually pushed for and gotten passed copyright extensions almost to infinity is stealing from the public culture. That's a much greater crime that some 16 year old downloading a bunch of music he'd never buy anyway.
    Yes, thank you. There are reasonable copyright laws and there are those invented by corporate America. Increasingly our value systems have started to match that of the corporations exactly.

    VA had it right. If people would rather obtain a pirated version of your product rather than buy YOUR PRODUCT, then either your product isn't of a high enough quality (it's not irreproducible—if the secondhand pirated version will suffice, then what are you screwing up?), or the price is simply too high.

    The problem isn't pirated music. Record labels simply want to enforce an artificial value on their product, rather than accept that the demand for what they're selling isn't as high as they'd like.
    Last edited by SoupIsGood; 04-19-2010 at 08:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    downloading a bunch of music he'd never buy anyway.
    I've seen 'losses' tallied by the projected number of downloads... which assumes all of those downloads would've been a purchase.

    I wonder how many downloaded songs would never have been purchased in the first place if downloading wasn't available?
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  19. #39
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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    get to see the sound check
    People WANT to see soundchecks? Really?

    Hmmmm
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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I've seen 'losses' tallied by the projected number of downloads... which assumes all of those downloads would've been a purchase.

    I wonder how many downloaded songs would never have been purchased in the first place if downloading wasn't available?
    Speaking as a 'reformed pirate', I can say that in my case it was quite a bit.

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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    As a side note.... I wonder what would happen if someone created a music television network that would promote and expose new artists and new material by existing artists thru music videos?

    But then you couldn't do that because where would you put all the trashy youth driven reality TV shows?
    There actually is a channel called Palladia that does something close to this. The difference between what you describe is that it's mostly well established acts that appear on Palladia, but I have seen acts like The Silversun Pickups doing a live MTV Unplugged style of show. From what I've seen of the channel, they tend to focus on live performances, so even if you see an act performing one of their "hits", you get to see a different version of it. They also play music videos. In fact, more than once, I've downloaded a song from iTunes after seeing the video on Palladia.

    Jay mentioned WTTS. As far as radio goes in Indy, that's pretty much the only station I can stomach. They definitely have the most diverse playlist, and they aren't at all afraid of new acts, and they have lots of regular artists in their playlist that you can't hear anywhere else in Indy. They aren't perfect and they have an unhealthy obsession with Mellancamp, but it's as close as you're going to get here.

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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood View Post
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    The problem isn't pirated music. Record labels simply want to enforce an artificial value on their product, rather than accept that the demand for what they're selling isn't as high as they'd like.
    This is the best statement I've ever read or heard on this topic. Spot on.

  23. #43
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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Soup has nailed it.

    Interesting discussion of how music is a non-rival and (increasingly) non-excludable good here:

    http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog...blic-good.html

    Just read it this evening for the first time.
    Last edited by Anthem; 04-19-2010 at 10:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    Maybe if we start with some reasonable limit on copyrights. Say 20 years?

    Writing a single hit when your 20 should not entitle you and your heirs not have to work another day in your life.

    Stuff is supposed to go into the public domain at some point.

    Speaking of "stealing", the way business interests have continually pushed for and gotten passed copyright extensions almost to infinity is stealing from the public culture. That's a much greater crime that some 16 year old downloading a bunch of music he'd never buy anyway.
    :cheer:

    Doug, doug, he's our man!

    Forget "reasonable" limits on copyrights, I'd settle for "any" limits on copyrights. Or, for that matter, I'd be able to stomach indefinite copyright extension if it came along with something like the Eldred Act.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldred_Act

    The Public Domain Enhancement Act (PDEA) (H.R. 2601 (108th Congress), H.R. 2408 (109th Congress)) was a bill in the United States Congress which, if passed, would have added a tax for copyrighted works to retain their copyright status. The purpose of the bill was to make it easier to determine who holds a copyright (by determining the identity of the person who paid the tax), and to allow copyrighted works which have been abandoned by their owners, also known as orphan works, to pass into the public domain.
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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    As a side note.... I wonder what would happen if someone created a music television network that would promote and expose new artists and new material by existing artists thru music videos?

    But then you couldn't do that because where would you put all the trashy youth driven reality TV shows?
    I watch pitchfork.tv

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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    People WANT to see soundchecks? Really?

    Hmmmm
    Well in the case of AVA, they will play an extra song or two that wont get played during the show and they communicate with the crowd a lot during the sound check.

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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Quote Originally Posted by GO!!!!! View Post
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    Great thread and some debates...

    Try this on for size...

    I recently saw a interview with Jason DeRulo or what ever his name was.. he said he recorded over 300 songs for his album and yet only put 10-12 on his CD...

    What does this suggest...

    I for one, if he recorded 300 songs would like to see more then a pissy 10-12 on his CD, make it a double CD feature, 20-26 songs, make it worth buying for the people...
    Most artists record numerous songs and then pick and choose the best for an album. Maybe he considered most of them crap and didn't want them out there.

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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    as someone getting into the music industry - its really difficult these days...you can't even create your own label and distribute your songs through the digital outlets - there are so many labels hence the distributers such as beatport.com and itunes are handpicking their cooperations with larger labels...

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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    People WANT to see soundchecks? Really?

    Hmmmm
    Ok, which is it, sound engineer or the lighting guy?? www.roadie.net
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    Default Re: Freeloaders are Ruining the Music Industry!

    One thing I would encourage everyone to do is to put an effort into finding music that speaks to you. I thing that was LA's main reason of pointing out that this generation of great music can't be found on your TV or radio. I'm not trying to say that all pop music is crap as some of it, although the amount is small, actually is good. But if you are relying on the American public to point you in the direction of good music, remember that Clay Aiken didn't even win American Idol and his attrocious album Measure of a Man still went double platinum. Meanwhile, acts like Iron and Wine, excellent singer songwriters who actually -GASP- play their own instruments and who by all rights should be stars can't even get iTunes to make their songs easy to find let alone get a record store to stock their CD. I ran onto them a year ago when I was on a business trip in Denver and the guy hosting me handed me two tickets to a Flight of the Concords show that night and Iron and Wine opened up for them and blew me away. I bought every CD they had for sale at their merch table. BTW, buying a CD at a merch table at a live show is the best way to support your favorite artist as they own those CD's and get all of the money from them. If you buy it at a retail store or as a single on iTunes, I would wager they'd be lucky to get 2% after everyone has been paid.
    Last edited by travmil; 04-20-2010 at 11:12 AM.

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