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Thread: Point Guard

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    Member BobbyMac's Avatar
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    Default Point Guard

    Most of the success the Pacers have had in the past has been from trading for a young player that was not getting playing time, but was ready to play in the NBA. What point guards in the NBA might fill that bill? What would it take to get them?

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    Member esabyrn333's Avatar
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    Default Re: Point Guard

    I like Raymond Felton. He is a restricted free agent we could get him in a sign and trade. Maybe Felton for Ford & maybe a 2nd round draft pick.


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    Default Re: Point Guard

    My answer is the same one I always give... Ramon Sessions of the Timberwolves. What would it take to get him? Probably not much.

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    Default Re: Point Guard

    Steve Blake could be that guy, good defender good floor general, can shoot the three and he is a free agent, he is been I think one of the most underrated PG's in the NBA

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    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
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    Default Re: Point Guard

    Young player, not getting much playing time?

    Ricky Rubio
    Ty Lawson
    Jeff Teague
    Eric Maynor
    Dj Augustin
    Jordan Farmar
    Goran Dragic
    Darren Collison (played when Paul was injured though)

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    Default Re: Point Guard

    Felton will be unrestricted.

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    Default Re: Point Guard

    Quote Originally Posted by pwee31 View Post
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    Young player, not getting much playing time?

    Ricky Rubio
    Ty Lawson
    Jeff Teague
    Eric Maynor
    Dj Augustin
    Jordan Farmar
    Goran Dragic
    Darren Collison (played when Paul was injured though)

    Great list I might add Sessions in there too. He looked great when he was on the Bucks.
    Top Tier, guys with great potential:
    1. Goran Dragic- The Suns have found the next Steve Nash. It would be hard to get him I think.
    2. Darren Collison- Played great when CP3 was hurt. The Hornet will get a lot of offers for him this off season. What would we give for him? Would a draft pick be enough?
    3. Ty Lawson- Great potential, bad miss on last years draft. Denver likes him, and what do they need that we have?
    4. Ricky Rubio-Hasn't even played yet and we would have to give up Hibbert or Granger to get him. No thanks, he won't even be here until 2011 anyway.
    Next level:
    5. Sessions-Great job with the Bucks. He could do good here and could be got.
    6. Maynor-Jury is still out on him. He hasn't played much. Is he better than AJ maybe, but maybe not.
    7. Augustin-I think AJ would start over him.
    8.Farmer- No thanks.

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    Default Re: Point Guard

    Raymond Felton
    Darren Collison
    Ramon Sessions
    Mike Conley
    George Hill

    All guys that I think we have at least a somewhat realistic shot of being able to acquire, and would all TREMENDOUSLY help this team.
    Grown Man Ball

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    Default Re: Point Guard

    I meant to mention George Hill also. How much would the spurs want for him? He looks promising.

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    Default Re: Point Guard

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Steve Blake could be that guy, good defender good floor general, can shoot the three and he is a free agent, he is been I think one of the most underrated PG's in the NBA
    He's someone I wanted us to bring in for a while now. I honestly think he can help guide us to the playoffs. He helped Portland last year and we have some good shooters and scorers he can pass the ball to.

    He's a very good shooter and defender like you said and he's a veteran who can help out AJ.

    I'd like to sign him for 2 years/6M and maybe an option for the 3rd year.

    We just need to be smart and draft a good PF and move Troy or some of our expiring contracts and I think this will be one good team.

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  13. #11
    Get well PG! QuickRelease's Avatar
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    Default Re: Point Guard

    Quote Originally Posted by SMosley21 View Post
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    Raymond Felton
    Darren Collison
    Ramon Sessions
    Mike Conley
    George Hill

    All guys that I think we have at least a somewhat realistic shot of being able to acquire, and would all TREMENDOUSLY help this team.
    Someone else mentioned George Hill in a thread the other day. I don't see him as someone the Spurs would want to lose. Who's the next PG behind Parker if they do that, and is he better than Hill? Hill is the perfect complement to Parker, in that he's more athletic and can defend. I doubt he's a realistic target.

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    Default Re: Point Guard

    Quote Originally Posted by pwee31 View Post
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    Young player, not getting much playing time?

    Ricky Rubio
    Ty Lawson
    Jeff Teague
    Eric Maynor
    Dj Augustin
    Jordan Farmar
    Goran Dragic
    Darren Collison (played when Paul was injured though)
    As done by someone else, I'd also like to comment on this awesome list.

    Rubio-I'm hard-pressed to see Minny ever trading him unless they can package him with a bad contract.
    Lawson-I know Denver loves him so I see him staying put unless we blow them away with a trade offer. He's a perfect 6th man though.
    Teague-Atlanta is high on him... I expect somewhere around the All Star break next year he will become their full-time starter. Bibby's been awful for a lot of the year.
    Maynor-I can't believe OKC got him for almost nothing! Sure, they took on Harpring's EC, but that was a fantastic trade for the Thunder to get a mid-teens pick from last year's first round. I'd love to trade a future first for him and start him. He plays great in his somewhat limited role behind Westbrook (for whom I would trade any player we currently have).
    Augustin-He's another example of a guy that Larry Brown absolutely begged to get, then didn't use often enough. I think he's closer to a trade than Felton. He could be a good guy for us in a Jameer Nelson type of role where he doesn't need to average 8APG but should be able to hit a lot of open shots. If only we'd pound the ball inside...
    Farmar-He'd be a better backup than anyone we have right now, but can he play consistently enough to be any kind of starter? I would take him for in a really cheap trade, but I don't think I'd trade any firsts or core pieces to get him unless he was a throw-in for a bigger deal.
    Dragic-I agree with Pacers74 that the Suns are grooming him to replace Nash. And he's looked great in their system.
    Collison-I'd love to get our hands on this guy. I wonder if Murph/1st for Collison/Posey would appeal to NOH?

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    Default Re: Point Guard

    A few other players we could consider who are close to starter caliber (as long as they're only your 4th or 5th best starter) that may be available:

    JJ Barea-With Terry and Beaubois taking a lot of backcourt minutes in relief of/next to Kidd, he could be available. He's not a fantastic passer but can hit the three and finishes incredibly well inside. I believe he makes less than $2M next year, which makes his services particularly attractive.
    Shaun Livingston-He had a few really good looking games with Washington to finish the year. He has obviously has a less-than-stellar career thus far (with his injury being an enormous contributing factor) but he's an excellent passer with great vision and can rebound very well too. Only bummer is that he can't hit threes so he might not get a ton of burn here. He could probably be had for around $1.5-2M per year on a shorter deal though.
    Beno Udrih-I'm not even sure he's available, considering there has been some speculation that Tyreke might play the 2-guard for Sacramento in the near future, and Udrih has played pretty well this year. I believe he's making something around $5-6M next year, so unless we're sure he's going to be a good fit, he's probably out of our price range unless Sacramento really likes Mike Dunleavy Jr.

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    Default Re: Point Guard

    I never think of George Hill as a Point Guard.

    As for these lists, Conley's really the only one that I'm intrugued by. I think he is better than he's played so far in the league. I really think he'll have a breakout year soon, he has the physical tools for it, imho.

    It's not that none of these other guys don't interest me, they do, but none of them seem to be the answer or a clear, "oh ya" thats the guy player, imho. Another words I see upgrades, just not answers. Maybe I'm expecting too much.

  18. #15

    Default Re: Point Guard

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I never think of George Hill as a Point Guard.

    As for these lists, Conley's really the only one that I'm intrugued by. I think he is better than he's played so far in the league. I really think he'll have a breakout year soon, he has the physical tools for it, imho.

    It's not that none of these other guys don't interest me, they do, but none of them seem to be the answer or a clear, "oh ya" thats the guy player, imho. Another words I see upgrades, just not answers. Maybe I'm expecting too much.
    The problem with some of the younger ones is this..

    Say they go after Collison..and have to give up Rush and take on an albatross of a contract just to get him.

    Is he so much better than Price that it completely makes up the difference of giving up Rush and taking on a huge contract? Because if 3 years from now, they are about the same level of player, we'd look really stupid.

    Personally, I'd like to see if we could make a run at Parker.

  19. #16

    Default Re: Point Guard

    Sookie-

    I've always loved Parker's game (which has of course been facilitated/
    enhanced a fair amount by Duncan's presence).

    But, what is his primary asset ? I would say it's his first step/incredible
    quickness. I know he's only in his late-20's. But, what happens when
    he starts to lose a even just a 1/2 step ?

    A guy like Billips has already done so. But his game isn't dependent
    on blinding quickness so he gets away with it. TP probably won't.

    As for the thread topic, I LOVED Teague in last year's draft. He's who I wanted
    at #13. If he's at all gettable (a word ?), I'm all for it.
    Last edited by Hillman's 'Fro'; 04-17-2010 at 10:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Point Guard

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillman's 'Fro' View Post
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    Sookie-

    I've always loved Parker's game (which has of course been facilitated/
    enhanced a fair amount by Duncan's presence).

    But, what is his primary asset ? I would say it's his first step/incredible
    quickness. I know he's only in his late-20's. But, what happens when
    he starts to lose a even just a 1/2 step ?

    A guy like Billips has already done so. But his game isn't dependent
    on blinding quickness so he gets away with it. TP probably won't.

    As for the thread topic, I LOVED Teague in last year's draft. He's who I wanted
    at #13. If he's at all gettable (a word ?), I'm all for it.
    But he's a top notch point guard. I'm sure, as he gets older, his shot will need to get better because his speed is one of his best assets, but as I said, he's a top notch PG.

    That's different from trading for one of the younger guys with potential. We have a younger point guard with potential..Sure you could say "Well Collison has more potential" But is he realistically going to be SO much better than Price that we end up trading one of our core (Hans, Rush, McBob) plus taking on a huge contract..(which odds are, is something we'd have to do with any young promising PG we tried to pick up) does it make it worth it?

    Because we look bad if Collison (an example) and Price end up as about the same player, we don't have enough money to add another piece to our core because of the nasty contract we recieved..and the young player we traded ends up being pretty good himself. Bad situation all around.

    However, you go after a guy like Parker -established top tier point- perhaps even as a free agent..you know he's better than Price, and if you think Price could be a future starter you have someone Price could learn from. You know what you are getting, and you don't end up with the situation above. (Especially if it's a free agent signing) We have a good young pg thats got realistic potential for being a good starter, don't trade someone that's going to be slightly better if it means that it hurts our team in other ways (losing Rush, Hans, McBob..getting a big nasty contract back) it makes more sense to go after someone we know is very good.

    Not to mention, the very nature of being a PG revolves around leadership, someone like Parker is already there, he won't need to grow into that role.

    I guess this is just my plea not to do anything stupid..
    Last edited by Sookie; 04-17-2010 at 10:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Point Guard

    In general, I agree with your point. My concern with a vet like Parker
    is that, by the time the Pacers are a team that is positioned to be a
    legit factor again (ie, a 50ish wins/4th seed caliber team), Parker
    may well be 31-32 yrs old and losing his elite quickness, etc.

    But, if he helps get us from here to there, then depending on how
    salty his price tag is, maybe it's worth it anyway. Who knows...

  22. #19
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    Default Re: Point Guard

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillman's 'Fro' View Post
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    In general, I agree with your point. My concern with a vet like Parker
    is that, by the time the Pacers are a team that is positioned to be a
    legit factor again (ie, a 50ish wins/4th seed caliber team), Parker
    may well be 31-32 yrs old and losing his elite quickness, etc.

    But, if he helps get us from here to there, then depending on how
    salty his price tag is, maybe it's worth it anyway. Who knows...

    I agree that by the time we are ready to challenge for anything Division/Conference or whatever he might be too old. The last time we got a vet PG was Jackson and we were adding pieces to a puzzle that was almost complete. Right now we are just starting the puzzle. I really don't want to sign any players that are 29 years old, which parker will be next year, and have to pay them a max contract.
    I would rather get a younger PG and not have to pay them a max contract.

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    Default Re: Point Guard

    I don't understand why you guys keep saying that 30,31,32 years old for a point guard is old, have you guys seen Steve Nash(36) Jason Kidd(37) Chauncey Billups(33) or Baron Davis(31), I would take this guys over Harris, Ricky Rubio,Ty Lawson,Jeff Teague,Eric Maynor,Dj Augustin,Jordan Farmar,Goran Dragic and Darren Collison.

  24. #21

    Default Re: Point Guard

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I never think of George Hill as a Point Guard.
    Yeah, if you want a point-guard who can be the primary playmaker and quarterback on the court, George Hill isn't that player. He's excellent when paired with someone like Manu (who would be a top-5 PG if he played the position full-time); Hill is an elite role-player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    As for these lists, Conley's really the only one that I'm intrugued by. I think he is better than he's played so far in the league. I really think he'll have a breakout year soon, he has the physical tools for it, imho.
    I also feel he should be better; but I fear he doesn't have the mental tools to get it done.

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  26. #22
    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
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    Default Re: Point Guard

    The Spurs and coach Pop, really like George Hill, so I doubt he's going anywhere

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    Default Re: Point Guard

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I don't understand why you guys keep saying that 30,31,32 years old for a point guard is old, have you guys seen Steve Nash(36) Jason Kidd(37) Chauncey Billups(33) or Baron Davis(31)

    Keep in mind you've also got guys like Francis, Marbury and also to a great extent, Bibby, when it comes to guys who have fallen off physically once they hit their late 20s.

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    Default Re: Point Guard

    Quote Originally Posted by pwee31 View Post
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    The Spurs and coach Pop, really like George Hill, so I doubt he's going anywhere
    Me too, I think it's way more likely they trade Parker (even though Parker is a better player than Hill and they also like him). I think they should.

    p.s.- yes, 31 years old PG make less sense because Nash and Kidd are the exception, not the norm.

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    Default Re: Point Guard

    Parker will only be 29 during the 2011-2012 season. If the Pacers signed him to a fairly reasonable 4 year deal with the money freed up from Murphleavy, it wouldn't be the worst move of the Bird era.

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