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Re: Blah Blah Blah Space the court Blah Blah Blah
Space the court? We're on Earth, you can't do that.
Space the court? We're on Earth, you can't do that.
The Rules of Pacers Digest
Hello everyone,
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"
"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?"
In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*""Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?
"In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Space the court Blah Blah Blah
You don't space the court at every position and off the bench as well. Even if you could create some Frankenstein on paper and see only the bright side of your creation, the reality of creating it and executing it would fall woefully short. Not every player can be a good to great 3 point shooter. Especially if that player has played as a traditional 4-5 his entire career. Even some wings just don't have the ability or mentality to just launch shots at any moment. But even if they don't bring that one thing to the court most coaches can find and utilize the things they do bring to the court. It's simply crazy to expect that every position on the court can be a 3 point threat... and to get that the sacrifices made on other parts of the game will kill you.Originally posted by Putnam View Post
For one thing there is a reason natural (read: traditional) roles have developed on the basketball court. Gimmicks have come and gimmicks have gone. Rules and rule changes have been utilized by coaches to their advantage. But that's not simply what I'm seeing from O'Brien. I'm seeing (and reading/hearing) nothing but a total gimmick which just doesn't make sense to me.
And there seems to be a total fixation on this one aspect that is IMHO simply beyond reason. Other teams have a couple of players capable of 'stretching the floor' and they win with that. IMO this is not a case of "If a little is good a lot will be that much better"
Our terrible transition d over the course of O'Brien's tenure has been a direct result of his offense. Not every quick shot is a bad one, but every missed quick shot is an opportunity for the other team. Especially, quick 3's.
Players brought up with good coaching and who understand the game have to be confused and confounded with what O'Brien is preaching. He's creating bad habits that will take time for a real coach to undo. I'm sure he's creating dissension amongst the ranks. There's no way he's not. They players can see what is working and what is not. They can see when he says one thing but does another. And when it gets down to it the thing he always seem to say and mean (thru actions) is the "Space the court" stuff for all 5 positions. Quick offense and a lot of long ball. Forget defense. Forget traditional roles. Forget a winning record.
This man is truly a horrible coach.Last edited by Bball; 04-11-2010, 12:54 PM.Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.
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"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."
-John WoodenComment
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Space the court Blah Blah Blah
^^^ Thanks. That's a good amplification of the point.
.And I won't be here to see the day
It all dries up and blows away
I'd hang around just to see
But they never had much use for me
In Levelland. (James McMurtry)Comment
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Space the court Blah Blah Blah
I disagree. The plan is when the big contracts expire, to get needed players with the extra money. That plan hasn't changed.Originally posted by Brad8888 View Post
You're saying it will take more time for our players to learn a new style.
Well, when we get the new players they will need time to fit in and develop chemistry with their teammates, because they will have a new coach and new style.
So what difference does it make if we have two or three players or a whole team learning a new system?
Either way it would likely take a year before we actually have the chemistry to be a threat to win a title.
But maybe not, Bird seems to be getting players with high basketball IQ's. And most NBA players aren't dumb, they grew up playing different styles and systems.
The way I see it by the end of that year the team would have learned the new system and be a threat.Comment
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Space the court Blah Blah Blah
Jim O'Brien in a word, hubris.
I am now more convinced than ever that this guy is such a true believer in his defensive system (I know you are shocked because you thought I was going to say his offensive system) that he willingly and openly plays players who are poor to mediocre defenders but excell at what he wants at them from the offensive end.
This is why you have Mike Dunleavy playing over D. Jones and why he plays Troy Murphy so much.
I actually have come to believe his own rhetorick when it comes to defense. I do think he thinks he is a defensive coach, but his defense is based on his system not the individual talents of the players. I think that he thinks that as long as they are willing to do what he tells them on the defensive end that they will do fine but he really needs their talent on the offensive end of the floor.
Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying I agree with him but I think in my mind that is what he believes.
Also I will still go against the grain a little and even against his own recent penchant for talking with Wells and say that he wants shooters on the floor to open up the lane for driving to the basket. He wants and demands that everybody be a threat on the floor from outside so that other teams will have to leave the middle being guarded by a smaller player.
Like many ideas, this works on paper but does not always work in real life.
Also somebody had to do it so let it be me.
Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13Comment
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Space the court Blah Blah Blah
If that is the plan and it has always been such then:Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
- Why sign D. Jones to a 4 year contract to play for a coach that doesn't value his primary skill?
- Why draft "NBA ready" upper classmen over more talented but less ready players? Jrue Holliday?
- Why draft a big man that is exactly the opposite of what your chosen coach wants? (Hibbert)
- Why extend, instead of trade, a worn down Jeff Foster? He won't be here at the end of the three year plan anyway.
Can somebody tell me when Bird first mentioned the three year plan? Because all I ever remember is hearing him say how he didn't want to rebuild and that we were striving to compete now. The three year plan makes since if the rest of your decisions are along the same path. They haven't been. Every decision that has been made has been to make the playoffs now. The three year plan has been, IMO, the pacifier to explain Bird misjudging his coach and roster.Comment
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Space the court Blah Blah Blah
Spacing the court is one of the very first and basic principles of NBA offense. Why so many of you freak out everytime you hear it is beyond meComment
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Space the court Blah Blah Blah
Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
I think you are on to something. A lot of people are dismissing this recent good play as meaningless and I think that is short sighted. This team is flat out better than early in the season and the core is starting to develop some much needed chemistry. Granger is playing as well as I have ever seen him, better than last year even.
If Obrien sticks with the current rotation (or something similar) I think this team is .500 next year.
However, If we are back to "small ball gives us the best chance to win" than I set the building on fire."As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."
- ilive4sportsComment
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Space the court Blah Blah Blah
I don't think anybody does. Nobody disputes it's purpose or value.Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
What IS in dispute is the percieved image that Jim O'Brien values floor spacing first, second and third in his on court players. Spacing above all others.
Here, let's play a game for a min. one that you should be able to relate to.
Now for arguments sake let's say that Roy Hibbert (who I know you don't care much for but for this game let's just say that he has to be there) is your center.
Do you, Uncle Buck, want Troy Murphy next to him on the floor or do you, Uncle Buck, want a young healthy Jeff Foster on the floor with him? Now why do you want who you want?
Now who do you think Jim O'Brien would want on the floor with him? Now why would he want him on the floor with him?
Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13Comment
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Space the court Blah Blah Blah
Get your matches ready.Originally posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13Comment
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Space the court Blah Blah Blah
Because it is being applied to nearly EVERY Pacer regardless of position. It is used to defend playing time or lack thereof. It is the carrot on the end of the stick for players that could use the offseason/practice for other (traditionally more important) things.Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
If O'Brien was saying we need to find A player to space the court... or even saying we need to find a couple of players to space the court... it would be different. Instead, developing all the rotation into spacing the court seems to be his dream AND goal. ...Regardless of what he has to work with. It's an irrational goal.
Surely you see nobody is against the idea of spacing the court... But nearly everyone is against the idea of stressing that amongst every possible position on the court. Let alone stressing it while other things go to heck around him.
If O'Brien stressed and coached defense as much as he does "spacing the court" we might actually have a winning team.
We already have players that can "space the floor". Maybe what we need is a coach with a structured offense that can take advantage of the team we DO have... not the mythical team O'Brien wishes we had.Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.
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"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."
-John WoodenComment
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Space the court Blah Blah Blah
Bball, no, it is being used as a means to get Granger more room to get his shot off and to give Roy more space in the low Post. And Jim is correct if we had a great three point shooting point guard, then you can get by without a three-point shooting wing player.
Not having a good outside shooter gives teams a better chance to double team riy and danny or at least shade riy and danny. (haven't many of you used this very argument to suggest that Foster shouldn't be geting any minutes, teams don't have to guard him?)Comment
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Space the court Blah Blah Blah
Rik SmitsOriginally posted by Unclebuck View Post
Derrick McKey
Dale Davis
Reggie Miller *
Haywood Workman
Which of the above beyond the asterik spread the floor? I guess Larry Brown found a way to cheat the laws of physics and somehow managed to sneak out some wins with this group.
Pau Gasol
Trevor Ariza
Andrew Bynum
Koby Bryant *
Derrick Fisher *
Beyond the two astriks who spread the floor for last years champs in the starting unit?
Again, nobody is saying spreading the floor is bad. However there are more ways of doing it without making sure that 4 of the 5 starters are good three point shooters. Movement will also cause spacing.
Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13Comment
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Space the court Blah Blah Blah
With zone being allowed now which it wasn't back in the 90's spacing the floor, having good shooters at every postion is more important than ever.
Peck, how many times did you argue that Foster should be playing less because teams don't have to guard him, (which is another way of saying "space the floor".
Jim is looking for 3 good three Point shooters to lay alongside the point guard and Roy.
Bynum played very little in the playoffs the past two seasons because he was injured. Ad the first tenant of the tri-angle offense is good floor spacing. Ariza was a good three point shooter and gasol is an excellent shooter and a player teams had to guard, double, hedge, gameplan for. So I don't think the lakers are even a decent exampleLast edited by Unclebuck; 04-11-2010, 03:12 PM.Comment
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Space the court Blah Blah Blah
I have a question about spacing the floor and defensive minded coaching system we have. If all these are so important to coach and Bird............why try and trade our best 3pt shooter 41% this season, who also is our best on ball defender in Rush????? To me he seems pretty important ...... if that's what you're really after.
I'm not perfect and neither are you.
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the esteem of Elohim,
Ephisians 4: 32 And be kind towards one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as Elohim also forgave you in Messiah.Comment
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