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Thread: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    Quote Originally Posted by CooperManning View Post
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    This excludes anyone in the '11 draft class.

    Group 1: Paul, Wall, Rose
    Group 2: D. Williams, Rondo, Westbrook
    Group 3: D. Harris, B. Jennings, D. Collison, M. Ellis
    FWIW, Curry is already a better PG than Ellis. It's actually not even close.

  2. #27

    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    NapSeth-

    Vasquez ? Given the defensive rules on the perimeter,
    who is he gonna guard as a PG at the NBA level ?

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    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    I think the highest potential player who may be available is Ricky Rubio. If we want to swing for the PG fences this summer, I think trading for Rubio or drafting Bledsoe are our only two options.

    In 2 years:

    Paul
    D. Williams
    Rondo
    Rose
    Westbrook
    Curry
    Jennings

    After that, it's debatable.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

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  4. #29
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    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    How are we going to target them this summer? We have no Capspace and no Team that has any of them would be interested in moving them for anything that we have to offer.
    10rpg PF with an expiring contract, scoring PG with an expiring contract, lotto pick.
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    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    Arenas may be available, although it seems Washington may want to keep him around. Despite his recent drama he remains an All-Star caliber performer (23/7/4 last season).

    Collison could possibly be had for our mid-lotto pick, the same for Devin Harris, especially if New Jersey wins the draft lottery. If Minnesota lands Wall I could see them trading Ricky Rubio's rights to rid themselves of the hassle and to find immediate help at more needed positions.

    Raymond Felton could be available, but then again, he always seems to be for some strange reason... (he's not that good)

    I think Ramon Session would be worth looking into. He started out looking like a young stud in Milwaukee before signing with, and being misused by the Wolves this past offseason. He's young, turning 24 in two weeks, has a nice contract and could probably be had for fairly cheap.

  6. #31

    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    What about Tony Parker? Isn't he a free agent after next season when the pacers may actually have a little cap room?

    I know it's doubtful he would come here, but with Duncan almost done and Manu hurt all the time he could possibly look to jump ship there. If the pacers have a promising next season and make some good off season moves....

    It's a long shot, but i guess I can dream

    On the top 10, I'll give you a quick 5
    D Williams
    Paul
    Rose
    Parker
    Rondo

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    We really, really should have come out of this draft with a PG. Gotta hope Price becomes something special.
    At our current standing, Wall is out of the picture. The only PG around where the Pacers are drafting is possibly Bledsoe, and that's far from a sure thing. And we can't be certain he's actually a great floor general anyway.

    I think Price will eventually be a quality starter at best or terrific 6th man at worst at PG but is unlikely to become a star. It would be a good idea to continue to hunt for a high quality PG, but our chances of doing that this year dropped off the map with our draft position following this peculiarly timed win streak.

    Our best chance at getting a star PG might be by trading for Rubio and waiting for him, although that seems unlikely and risky. But I seriously don't see the Pacers acquiring Paul, Rose, or D. Williams.

  8. #33

    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyPacer View Post
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    At our current standing, Wall is out of the picture. The only PG around where the Pacers are drafting is possibly Bledsoe, and that's far from a sure thing. And we can't be certain he's actually a great floor general anyway.

    I think Price will eventually be a quality starter at best or terrific 6th man at worst at PG but is unlikely to become a star. It would be a good idea to continue to hunt for a high quality PG, but our chances of doing that this year dropped off the map with our draft position following this peculiarly timed win streak.

    Our best chance at getting a star PG might be by trading for Rubio and waiting for him, although that seems unlikely and risky. But I seriously don't see the Pacers acquiring Paul, Rose, or D. Williams.
    That's my thinking too.

    The question comes whether you still focus on looking for a star at PG, which is much harder to find..or look for one at the PF or SG spot (SG being absolute easiest to find) Although part of me thinks Rush has the ability to be a star SG, and that's not hype..He's got the talent, he just needs to develope some skills..(finishing at the rim, midrange jumper, assertiveness) It's his mentality thats the biggest bridge to cross.

    That said, as much as it's easier to find an all star shooting guard, your team gets better with a star PG rather than an All star SG would. So it's a give and take. (With PF being easier to find than a PG, but harder than SG..and making your team better than an SG but not as good as a PG.)

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    10rpg PF with an expiring contract, scoring PG with an expiring contract, lotto pick.
    But which Team would be willing to give up a Starting quality PG for that package?

    I'm not saying that the package itself isn't decent....I'm asking which Team that has the type of PG that you want would be willing to give up the type of PG that every Team wants to keep?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  10. #35

    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    I'm comfortable with my prediction of Collison's future value awhile ago:

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showpost...8&postcount=14
    Quote Originally Posted by cordobes
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    He's a solid starter, but with so much talent at the PG position, he very probably will never sniff an All-Star game or be a top-10 player at his position. From his draft alone:

    Top Tier
    1. Evans
    2. Rubio
    3. Jennings
    3. Curry

    Second tier
    5. Beaubois

    Third tier
    6. Collison
    6. Holiday

    Fourth tier
    9.Lawson
    10.Teague

    11.Maynor
    12. Douglas
    13. Flynn

    Then you have already in the league the following PGs who are 25 years old or less:
    Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Rajon Rondo. I think all of them are clearly better than Collison. I think OJ Mayo natural and best position is PG and if he plays there he'll be better than Collison.

    Then you have guys like Raymond Felton who have similar value.

    Plus one could add young players like Augustin, Bayless or Conley who have potential to be better than Collison (a player with a very limited potential due to his lack of elite physical and athletic traits + age).

    And on the top of all that, you still have players who will be around for a few years like Tony Parker (better than Collison) and Calderon (whom Collison will probably surpass but it's not a given).

    Now, add John Wall and the immediate future John Walls and it's very arguable that Collison will never be an above-average PG in the NBA.
    So, putting it all together:

    1. Deron Williams
    2. Chris Paul

    3. Rose, Rondo, Westbrook

    6. Jennings, Curry, Parker

    9. Beaubois

    10. Felton

    Obviously, the younger guys have a good chance of climbing the ranks in the next 2 seasons.

    I'm fairly sure Rubio and Wall will be top-10 PGs. If Mayo switches positions, he'll also be a very good one. And who knows how good will Billups be in 2 years.

    Ah, and you have very mediocre PGs like Monta Ellis or Mo Williams (or Bayless, or Ramon Sessions, or Devin Harris) who can be above average players in the right situation.

    It's too difficult to predict who will be available. Williams and Paul I dont' see being moved in the foreseeable future; more or less the same applies to Rose & Westbrook.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    FWIW, I think a winning team needs a quality PG, but you don't necessarily have to have a "great one". IMO, I think the PG position is essential but overrated (by fans) at the same time. There weren't exactly any great PGs between the 2 teams in the Finals last season. The most successful coach in NBA history has never really employed anything resembling a PG (except for maybe 1 year of a past his prime Payton).

    Just by nature of the position, there is a limiting factor to how much a PG can improve his team. A really good one can obviously improve a bad team by a good margin but then they're going to hit a ceiling of how much they can carry the team. They are essential, but at the same time you don't really want the PG to be the best player on the team. You want him to be able to get the ball to the best player on the team.

    Hard to exactly pinpoint what I'm saying, but I think this is it: I think Derrick Rose is a better individual player than guys like Parker and Rondo. But I think there is a limiting factor too how much a PG can affect the game and ultimately, I think the impact in how much they can help their teams win is about the same, or at least the difference in that impact is ultimately smaller than the difference of their individual talent.

    With all that said, John Wall still > Evan Turner. He's the safe pick and the best talent in the draft.
    Last edited by d_c; 03-28-2010 at 01:33 PM.

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    Quote Originally Posted by cordobes View Post
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    10. Felton
    Really? You're that high on Felton?

    I'm not saying you're wrong; I don't have an opinion. That just seems really high.
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  13. #38

    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Really? You're that high on Felton?

    I'm not saying you're wrong; I don't have an opinion. That just seems really high.
    Yeah. I thought about Nelson or Davis, but I picked Felton due to his superior defence + game management.

    It could have gone either way and it's not that important because right now guys like Billups and Nash are still superior and in the future I expect players like Rubio, Wall, Mayo, probably Holiday to become better or at least more or less at his level and I didn't even include Arenas, so I suppose this is a very circumstantial ranking.

    In any case, I think his defence is a very valuable asset. Defence at the point of attack is something that changes the completion of games and it becomes even more valuable considering the talent that exists at the position. I mean, if you can't have a Deron Williams or a John Wall, at least you have someone to throw at them that will keep their influence more or less contained.

  14. #39
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    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    Quote Originally Posted by CooperManning View Post
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    Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, and Jennings are unattainable for the Pacers.
    D. Williams and Harris are only attainable if their team lands Wall.
    Paul is probably unattainable.

    Ellis is probably attainable at the right price (not that I necessarily want him).
    Collison is probably attainable.
    Theoretically, either Flynn or Rubio is attainable.
    Felton is attainable.

    Can't think of anyone else it would make sense to trade for at PG unless we're talking complete sleepers here.
    According to their fan site Paul is actually more available. He's not happy and has been moping most of the year (I'm told, I don't watch them). Has the big contract and could bring them more pieces. Most of them think Collison is every bit the player, or will be in time.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...ined-by-a-king
    Last edited by MLB007; 03-28-2010 at 05:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    1. Westbrook
    2. Paul
    3. Williams
    4. Rose
    5. Wall
    6. Felton
    7. Curry
    8. Lawson
    9. Collison
    10. Rondo

    I think Rondo won't be as effective once he loses his go to guys on the Celtics and I think Felton will become a Billups like player in the sense he will take off in a new system. Harris has taken a few steps back with me and Jennings seems overhyped and not ultimately effective(as flashy as he may be).
    Agreed about Rondo. He's got 3 HOF scorers to mask his inability to shoot. When the big 3 are gone, he will be an average pg. Allbeit, one I'd like to have.

  16. #41
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    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    I think there's a good chance Price will be in the top 10, I seriously do. He just needs more experience and a better opportunity, that's for sure. We certainly need to get rid of O'Brien, though.

  17. #42

    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianDudley View Post
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    I think there's a good chance Price will be in the top 10, I seriously do. He just needs more experience and a better opportunity, that's for sure. We certainly need to get rid of O'Brien, though.
    Price will be as good as the Lawson, Collison, Flynn crowd. He was as good as them in college without being able to improve his game much during college, why would that change? (Although it does depend on all of those guys' coaches..I'm really starting to think JOB has gotten to AJ..)

    I don't know that those guys are in your top ten. I think those guys are all going to be in the range of "solid to very good" starting point guards.

    But I agree with whoever said, top 10 will be "Paul, Deron, Rondo, Rose, probably Wall, possibly Nash and with the rest of the top ten determined by who you ask"

  18. #43

    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I'm less interested in ranking them, and more interested in figuring out if there are any point guards the Pacers could legitimately target this summer.
    Maybe we could trade Ford and our pick to Charlotte for Felton and their pick? If they draft Udoh, then we have a PF and PG who could be our starters down the road...2 birds 1 stone

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    Out of the top tier PG's right now there is just about no chance we will end up with any of them. It's really no different than the PF's, SG's, C's and SF's. We really need to get our players out of the draft. TPTB did a great job finding Granger and it looks like they found a quality center. That's only two positions locked down. We still need a starting PF, a starting PG, and we can only hope Rush is turning into a quality starting SG. If we don't draft a PG (Bledsoe) then just about the only trade bait we have is the lottery pick. Trade for Collison, or Lawson maybe, one of the young unproven PG's. We have to take a chance like we did when we traded for O'neal, but we don't have a Dale Davis to trade do we.

  20. #45

    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    What if you have a good playmaking wing, a Manu Ginobili, or strong playmaking from the rest of the team, and you can get away with a below average passing/playmaking/floor general 1-guard?

    George Hill - I think the Spurs should try to improve their team by shopping Tony Parker around and go with a Hill/Ginobili backcourt. Hill is a very good defender - Westbrook, Felton, Rondo... maybe not yet as good as them, but has the advantage of being able to crossmatch and defend 2-guards, a la Westbrook. Above average rebounder. Prolific and very versatile scorer - outside game, midrange game, can get to the rim. Steady and safe ball-handler. Moves well off the ball.

    Monta Ellis - the best option if you need a marquee scorer/shot-maker. Needs lots of touches to affect a game.

    Devin Harris - will he go back to his defensive prowess of old with a change of scenario?

    Ramon Sessions - ball-dominance, lack of shooting and defence are big problems. I actually liked his development this season, diversified his game.

    Jerryd Bayless - Similar to Sessions, except with less passing ability/creativity and less safe/heady with the ball. Potential to get better, but needs to start showing improvement.

    Randy Foye - Never learned how to play defence or how to effect a game outside of scoring. Poor man's Ellis. Not a starter. Not even a good backup at this point of his career.

    OJ Mayo - the best prospect of the group if he switches positions and proves he belongs to this group.

  21. #46
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    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    Paul
    Williams
    Rose
    Wall
    Rubio
    Westbrook
    Rondo

    Needless to say, we have a really slim chance on getting any of these guys. Our best bid is either drafting a promising PG or trading for one of those above average but not ideal PGs with our expiring contacts.

    I know you guys don't really like Harris but he is one of the very few decent PGs beside Felton I think we may be able to trade for specially the Nets has a really high chance landing Wall. If we can't draft a promising PG this year, I like to see the Pacers take a chance on him.

  22. #47
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    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    Maybe we could trade Ford and our pick to Charlotte for Felton and their pick? If they draft Udoh, then we have a PF and PG who could be our starters down the road...2 birds 1 stone
    Charlotte's pick was traded to Chicago in the Tyrus Thomas deal.

  23. #48
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    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    What can the Pacers learn from the past? Taking fliers on average point guards is a good way to win 35 games a year. I'd rather have Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, or some proven winner on his last legs than some guy who couldn't start for a 40 win team. At least a proven winner might rub off on the young guys here. He could also show Price a thing or two about how to be a PG in the NBA.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    no mention of CJ Watson?
    STARBURY

    08 and Beyond

  25. #50

    Default Re: Two years from now: Top 10 point guards in the NBA?

    Quote Originally Posted by CooperManning View Post
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    Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, and Jennings are unattainable for the Pacers.
    This comment reminded me that, to me, perhaps the most interesting draft ordering -- aside from the Pacers landing a top-three pick, of course -- would be Utah landing the top pick. I don't see them trading D Will even if they get Wall. They likely would pick Wall anyway and play the two together some of the time, but the makeup and financial picture of their team suggests that they, more than any other team, may be motivated to trade their pick. Not to us, but to someone. (I can imagine them trading down a few spots and coming out very well.)

    Then again, watching the T-Wolves consider yet another PG sure would be fun too!

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