Vasquez ? Given the defensive rules on the perimeter,
who is he gonna guard as a PG at the NBA level ?
I think the highest potential player who may be available is Ricky Rubio. If we want to swing for the PG fences this summer, I think trading for Rubio or drafting Bledsoe are our only two options.
In 2 years:
After that, it's debatable.
"A man with no belly has no appetite for life."
- Salman Rushdie
Arenas may be available, although it seems Washington may want to keep him around. Despite his recent drama he remains an All-Star caliber performer (23/7/4 last season).
Collison could possibly be had for our mid-lotto pick, the same for Devin Harris, especially if New Jersey wins the draft lottery. If Minnesota lands Wall I could see them trading Ricky Rubio's rights to rid themselves of the hassle and to find immediate help at more needed positions.
Raymond Felton could be available, but then again, he always seems to be for some strange reason... (he's not that good)
I think Ramon Session would be worth looking into. He started out looking like a young stud in Milwaukee before signing with, and being misused by the Wolves this past offseason. He's young, turning 24 in two weeks, has a nice contract and could probably be had for fairly cheap.
What about Tony Parker? Isn't he a free agent after next season when the pacers may actually have a little cap room?
I know it's doubtful he would come here, but with Duncan almost done and Manu hurt all the time he could possibly look to jump ship there. If the pacers have a promising next season and make some good off season moves....
It's a long shot, but i guess I can dream
On the top 10, I'll give you a quick 5
I think Price will eventually be a quality starter at best or terrific 6th man at worst at PG but is unlikely to become a star. It would be a good idea to continue to hunt for a high quality PG, but our chances of doing that this year dropped off the map with our draft position following this peculiarly timed win streak.
Our best chance at getting a star PG might be by trading for Rubio and waiting for him, although that seems unlikely and risky. But I seriously don't see the Pacers acquiring Paul, Rose, or D. Williams.
That's my thinking too.
The question comes whether you still focus on looking for a star at PG, which is much harder to find..or look for one at the PF or SG spot (SG being absolute easiest to find) Although part of me thinks Rush has the ability to be a star SG, and that's not hype..He's got the talent, he just needs to develope some skills..(finishing at the rim, midrange jumper, assertiveness) It's his mentality thats the biggest bridge to cross.
That said, as much as it's easier to find an all star shooting guard, your team gets better with a star PG rather than an All star SG would. So it's a give and take. (With PF being easier to find than a PG, but harder than SG..and making your team better than an SG but not as good as a PG.)
I'm not saying that the package itself isn't decent....I'm asking which Team that has the type of PG that you want would be willing to give up the type of PG that every Team wants to keep?
Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.
I'm comfortable with my prediction of Collison's future value awhile ago:
1. Deron Williams
2. Chris Paul
3. Rose, Rondo, Westbrook
6. Jennings, Curry, Parker
Obviously, the younger guys have a good chance of climbing the ranks in the next 2 seasons.
I'm fairly sure Rubio and Wall will be top-10 PGs. If Mayo switches positions, he'll also be a very good one. And who knows how good will Billups be in 2 years.
Ah, and you have very mediocre PGs like Monta Ellis or Mo Williams (or Bayless, or Ramon Sessions, or Devin Harris) who can be above average players in the right situation.
It's too difficult to predict who will be available. Williams and Paul I dont' see being moved in the foreseeable future; more or less the same applies to Rose & Westbrook.
FWIW, I think a winning team needs a quality PG, but you don't necessarily have to have a "great one". IMO, I think the PG position is essential but overrated (by fans) at the same time. There weren't exactly any great PGs between the 2 teams in the Finals last season. The most successful coach in NBA history has never really employed anything resembling a PG (except for maybe 1 year of a past his prime Payton).
Just by nature of the position, there is a limiting factor to how much a PG can improve his team. A really good one can obviously improve a bad team by a good margin but then they're going to hit a ceiling of how much they can carry the team. They are essential, but at the same time you don't really want the PG to be the best player on the team. You want him to be able to get the ball to the best player on the team.
Hard to exactly pinpoint what I'm saying, but I think this is it: I think Derrick Rose is a better individual player than guys like Parker and Rondo. But I think there is a limiting factor too how much a PG can affect the game and ultimately, I think the impact in how much they can help their teams win is about the same, or at least the difference in that impact is ultimately smaller than the difference of their individual talent.
With all that said, John Wall still > Evan Turner. He's the safe pick and the best talent in the draft.
Last edited by d_c; 03-28-2010 at 01:33 PM.
It could have gone either way and it's not that important because right now guys like Billups and Nash are still superior and in the future I expect players like Rubio, Wall, Mayo, probably Holiday to become better or at least more or less at his level and I didn't even include Arenas, so I suppose this is a very circumstantial ranking.
In any case, I think his defence is a very valuable asset. Defence at the point of attack is something that changes the completion of games and it becomes even more valuable considering the talent that exists at the position. I mean, if you can't have a Deron Williams or a John Wall, at least you have someone to throw at them that will keep their influence more or less contained.
According to their fan site Paul is actually more available. He's not happy and has been moping most of the year (I'm told, I don't watch them). Has the big contract and could bring them more pieces. Most of them think Collison is every bit the player, or will be in time.
Last edited by MLB007; 03-28-2010 at 05:12 PM.
I think there's a good chance Price will be in the top 10, I seriously do. He just needs more experience and a better opportunity, that's for sure. We certainly need to get rid of O'Brien, though.
Price will be as good as the Lawson, Collison, Flynn crowd. He was as good as them in college without being able to improve his game much during college, why would that change? (Although it does depend on all of those guys' coaches..I'm really starting to think JOB has gotten to AJ..)
I don't know that those guys are in your top ten. I think those guys are all going to be in the range of "solid to very good" starting point guards.
But I agree with whoever said, top 10 will be "Paul, Deron, Rondo, Rose, probably Wall, possibly Nash and with the rest of the top ten determined by who you ask"
Out of the top tier PG's right now there is just about no chance we will end up with any of them. It's really no different than the PF's, SG's, C's and SF's. We really need to get our players out of the draft. TPTB did a great job finding Granger and it looks like they found a quality center. That's only two positions locked down. We still need a starting PF, a starting PG, and we can only hope Rush is turning into a quality starting SG. If we don't draft a PG (Bledsoe) then just about the only trade bait we have is the lottery pick. Trade for Collison, or Lawson maybe, one of the young unproven PG's. We have to take a chance like we did when we traded for O'neal, but we don't have a Dale Davis to trade do we.
What if you have a good playmaking wing, a Manu Ginobili, or strong playmaking from the rest of the team, and you can get away with a below average passing/playmaking/floor general 1-guard?
George Hill - I think the Spurs should try to improve their team by shopping Tony Parker around and go with a Hill/Ginobili backcourt. Hill is a very good defender - Westbrook, Felton, Rondo... maybe not yet as good as them, but has the advantage of being able to crossmatch and defend 2-guards, a la Westbrook. Above average rebounder. Prolific and very versatile scorer - outside game, midrange game, can get to the rim. Steady and safe ball-handler. Moves well off the ball.
Monta Ellis - the best option if you need a marquee scorer/shot-maker. Needs lots of touches to affect a game.
Devin Harris - will he go back to his defensive prowess of old with a change of scenario?
Ramon Sessions - ball-dominance, lack of shooting and defence are big problems. I actually liked his development this season, diversified his game.
Jerryd Bayless - Similar to Sessions, except with less passing ability/creativity and less safe/heady with the ball. Potential to get better, but needs to start showing improvement.
Randy Foye - Never learned how to play defence or how to effect a game outside of scoring. Poor man's Ellis. Not a starter. Not even a good backup at this point of his career.
OJ Mayo - the best prospect of the group if he switches positions and proves he belongs to this group.
Needless to say, we have a really slim chance on getting any of these guys. Our best bid is either drafting a promising PG or trading for one of those above average but not ideal PGs with our expiring contacts.
I know you guys don't really like Harris but he is one of the very few decent PGs beside Felton I think we may be able to trade for specially the Nets has a really high chance landing Wall. If we can't draft a promising PG this year, I like to see the Pacers take a chance on him.
What can the Pacers learn from the past? Taking fliers on average point guards is a good way to win 35 games a year. I'd rather have Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, or some proven winner on his last legs than some guy who couldn't start for a 40 win team. At least a proven winner might rub off on the young guys here. He could also show Price a thing or two about how to be a PG in the NBA.
no mention of CJ Watson?
08 and Beyond
This comment reminded me that, to me, perhaps the most interesting draft ordering -- aside from the Pacers landing a top-three pick, of course -- would be Utah landing the top pick. I don't see them trading D Will even if they get Wall. They likely would pick Wall anyway and play the two together some of the time, but the makeup and financial picture of their team suggests that they, more than any other team, may be motivated to trade their pick. Not to us, but to someone. (I can imagine them trading down a few spots and coming out very well.)
Then again, watching the T-Wolves consider yet another PG sure would be fun too!