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Thread: Dampier speaks

  1. #1
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Dampier speaks

    I apologize for starting another Dampier thread, but I think this is some new info and did not want to get it buried at the end of a long thread. Plus I could not decide which Dampier thread to post this on. So yell at me if you wish.

    Of course the interesting part is where Dampier says he might sign a two year deal for the MLE.

    http://www.ajc.com/thursday/content/...91272004c.html


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    From staff and news services

    Thursday, July 22, 2004

    Dampier tells TV Hawks 'option'

    Golden State Warriors free agent center Erick Dampier hasn't made a decision regarding the Hawks' multiyear contract offer, which is believed to start at $8 million in the first year. But upon arriving home in Jackson, Miss., Tuesday night, he told ABC affiliate WAPT-TV he considers Atlanta "an option."
    "Atlanta is close to home," Dampier told the station from the Jackson International Airport. "It's a team in a rebuilding process. Hopefully something can be worked out between me and Atlanta.


    If not, I have to work something out, maybe sign for the mid-level [exception, which is valued around $5 million] for two years. Either way it goes, I don't think I can go wrong."


    Dampier averaged career-highs with 12.3 points and 11.9 rebounds last season and opted out of a contract that would've paid him about $17 million over the next two seasons. He is the best center on the free agent market, but his options have diminished in recent days.

    The New York Knicks tried to work out a sign-and-trade deal in which the Warriors would sign Dampier to a six-year deal starting at $9 million a year, then trade him to the Knicks for former Hawk Nazr Mohammed and Othella Harrington. But that deal fell through when the Warriors traded Nick Van Exel to Portland for Dale Davis and Dan Dickau.
    "It hasn't really been a frustrating process," Dampier said of his summer. "It's up to me or whether the Warriors are willing to do a sign-and-trade. Even if they don't, I have other options."


    The Memphis Grizzlies and Indiana Pacers are also interested in Dampier, but both teams are above the salary cap. They would have to acquire Dampier through a sign-and-trade or offer him the mid-level exception. The Hawks have about $12 million in cap room and can sign Dampier outright.



  2. #2
    Member Doug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    I'm in the "I don't want Damp" camp.

    But for the MLE and 2 years. Heck yes.
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  3. #3
    Expect Delays blanket's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    I was under the impression that MLE deals have to be for at least 3 years...
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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    I'm a little confused about whether we even have the full MLE to offer. There were lots of reports about AJ getting half of the MLE, but as a returning vet (Bird rights?) does his contract have to be considered a partial use of the MLE?

    If we have all of it to give, full MLE for 2 years for Dampier, HECK YEAH!
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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    Damp will come here if he finally wants to play in the playoffs. Even with Damp in ATL they will not make the playoffs. Im all for getting Damp if we dont have to trade Bender or Artest. Its up to Damp if he wants to play for a winner or not.


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  6. #6
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    Someone correct me if I am wrong. But because AJ was the Pacers own free agent they don't have to technically use the MLE to re-sign him. Now I think the Pacers don't want to sign AJ for 2 million and then use the full 4.9 MLE as that would increase payroll too much so the MLE worked as a budget restraint.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    Can somebody clear this up? Do we still have the full MLE, or did we use part of it on AJ?
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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Snickers
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    Can somebody clear this up? Do we still have the full MLE, or did we use part of it on AJ?
    Wow... so confusing... I remember reading somewhere that we used part of our MLE to sign AJ, but it seems that we could have used a Larry Bird exception or a non-Bird exception...

    See

    http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#17

    for more info.

    "17. Are there exceptions to the salary cap?
    Yes. Here is what they are:

    LARRY BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is the best known one. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA. This exception allows teams to exceed the salary cap to re-sign their own free agents, up to the player's maximum salary. The free agent in question must have played for three seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent. This means a player can obtain "Bird rights" by playing under three one-year contracts, a single contract of at least three years, or any combination. It also means that when a player is traded, his Bird rights are traded with him, and his new team can use the Bird exception to re-sign him. These contracts can be up to seven years in length. A player can receive 12.5% raises using this exception. This exception is known as the Larry Bird exception because the Celtics were the first team allowed to exceed the cap to keep their own free agent, and the player happened to be Bird.

    There is one more limit to the maximum salary that can be given using the Larry Bird exception. If the player was a first round draft pick and just completed his three-year rookie scale contract, but his team did not exercise their option to extend the contract for the fourth season (see question number 38 ), then this exception cannot be used to give him a salary greater than he would have received had the team exercised their fourth year option. For example Devean George was selected by the Lakers with the 23rd pick in the 1999 draft. He finished his three-year rookie scale contract in 2002. The Lakers had the option to extend him for the 02-03 season for $1,415,722 until October31, 2001, but did not do so. So while the Lakers were allowed to use the Larry Bird exception to re-sign George, they were limited to a first-year salary (using this exception) of $1,415,722. They instead used their mid-level exception to re-sign him, which allowed them to give him more money.


    EARLY BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is a weaker form of the Larry Bird exception. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA. A player qualifies for this exception after just two seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent. Using this exception, a team may re-sign its own free agent for 175% of his salary the previous season or the average player salary, whichever is greater (see question number 22 for the definition of "average salary"). Early Bird contracts must be for at least two seasons (which limits this exception's usefulness -- it's often better to take a lower salary for one more season and then have the full Bird exception available the next season) and no longer than six seasons. A player can receive 12.5% raises using this exception.

    NON-BIRD EXCEPTION -- Players who qualify for this exception are called "Non-Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA. They are defined as veteran free agents who are neither Qualifying Veteran Free Agents nor Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agents. This exception allows a team to re-sign its own free agent to a salary starting at 120% of the player's salary in the previous season or 120% of the minimum salary, whichever is greater, even if they are over the cap. Raises are limited to 10% and contracts are limited to six years when this exception is used.

    MID-LEVEL SALARY EXCEPTION -- This exception is also called the "Middle Class Exception." This exception says that a team can offer any player a contract equal to the average NBA salary every year, even if they are over the cap. This exception is new to the current CBA, and was "ramped up" to the average salary over a period of four years (see question number 22 for the definition of "average salary"). Here is the value of the mid-level salary exception for each year of the CBA:
    98-99 $1.75 million
    99-00 $2.00 million
    00-01 $2.25 million
    01-02 $4,538,000
    02-03 $4,546,000
    03-04
    $4,917,000



    This exception may be split and given to multiple players. It may be used for contracts of up to six years in length. Signing a player to a multi-year contract does not affect a team's ability to use this exception every year. For example, a team can sign a player to a six-year contract using this exception and still use the exception the following year to sign another player. Also see question number 18 for more information on the availability and use of this exception.

    $1 MILLION EXCEPTION -- This exception carries over from the previous CBA. Like the mid-level salary exception, it ramps up over several years:
    98-99 $1.00 million
    99-00 $1.10 million
    00-01 $1.20 million
    01-02 $1.30 million
    02-03 $1.40 million
    03-04 $1.50 million
    04-05 $1.60 million


    This exception may not be used two years in a row. It may also be split and given to more than one player, and can be used to sign players for up to two years. Also see question number 18 for more information on the availability and use of this exception.

    ROOKIE EXCEPTION -- Teams may sign their first round draft picks to rookie "scale" contracts even if they will be over the cap as a result.

    MINIMUM PLAYER SALARY EXCEPTION -- Teams can offer players minimum-salary contracts even if they are over the cap. Contracts can be up to two years in length. For two year contracts, the second season salary is the minimum salary for that season. For example, when the capped-out Lakers signed Dennis Rodman in the middle of the 98-99 season, they used this exception to give Rodman the minimum salary, which was $1 million for the 10+ year veteran. This exception also allows minimum-salary players to be acquired via trade. See question number 69 for more information.

    TRADED PLAYER EXCEPTION -- This is a "credit" teams can use to replace the salary of a player traded to another team. This credit cannot be used to sign free agents -- it is only available for trades. This exception is discussed in detail in question number 68 . Also see question number 18 for more information on the availability and use of this exception.

    DISABLED PLAYER EXCEPTION -- This exception allows a team which is over the cap to acquire a replacement for a disabled player who will be out for the remainder of the season. This exception can also be granted in the event of a player's death. This exception can only be used to acquire one player. The maximum salary for the replacement player is 50% of the injured player's salary, or the average salary, whichever is less (see question number 22 for the definition of "average salary"). Approval from the league (based on a determination by an NBA-designated physician) is required for this exception to be used. This exception can be used to sign a free agent, or to create room to accept a salary in trade. When used for trade, it is treated in a similar fashion to the traded player exception (see question number 68 ). If a team is under the salary cap by more than the combined amount of their exceptions, or drops below the cap by more than the combined amount of their exceptions after receiving this exception, then they lose this exception. If a team is under the salary cap and has this exception available to use, then it is included in their team salary.

    If a player is disabled between July 1 and November 30, the team must acquire the replacement player within 45 days. If the player is disabled between December 1 and June 30, and the physician determines that the player will be out the entire following season as well, then the team has until October 1 to sign a replacement. If the disabled player comes back sooner than expected, then he may be activated immediately, and the replacement player (or exception, if it hasn't been used yet) is not affected.

    Teams sometimes have had difficulty getting the NBA to approve an injury exception. For example, Danny Manning tore an ACL toward the end of the 97-98 season, yet the NBA would not approve the Suns for an injury exception. More recently, the Magic did not receive this exception in 2003 for Grant Hill. However, this exception was granted in the 1999 offseason to San Antonio, so they could replace Sean Elliott, who was disabled due to kidney problems. This exception was also granted to Charlotte soon after Bobby Phills was killed. A vote of the NBA Board of Governors is actually required for this exception to be granted. Also see question number 18 for more information on the availability and use of this exception.

    Don't confuse this exception with the salary cap relief teams can apply for two years after losing a player to a career-ending injury or death (see question number 51 ). This exception allows a team to acquire a replacement player. The salary cap relief removes a contract from the books.


    QUALIFYING OFFER -- Certain players become restricted free agents at the end of their contract if their team submits a qualifying offer (see question number 34 ). For players who entered the NBA in 98-99 or later, through their third year in the league, the qualifying offer must be for 125% of the player's previous salary, or the player's minimum salary (see question number 9 ) plus $150,000, whichever is greater. Teams are given an exception in this amount for the purpose of making a qualifying offer. This exception is not necessary for players finishing the fourth year of their rookie scale contracts, because teams may use the Larry Bird exception for these players."


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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    It doesnt matter. He's playing the Hawks. Trying to make them THINK he'd do that when in reality he knows that he could turn into this years Jackson if he screws around too long.

    After giving up 2 years totalling 13 mil, he isn't going to sign for the MLE unless he gets caught in the door. Then he has a whole host of teams that would be willing to sign him for that.

    WE WILL NOT LAND DAMP FORGET IT!!!
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    Yeah, we get no love from the AJ signing.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    As for AJ, I think it would have to have been using our MLE, since he joined us as a FA and had not been with the Pacers for three years before signing his deal.

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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    I think it is posturing by Dampier.

    But if he really would sign for the MLE, then let the Warriors re-sign him for 3 years (rather than 2) starting at $6M and trade him to us for Bender.

    Yes, I know, I am back on the Bender kick. But a straight up 1-for-1 trade without having to throw in Jeff or Freddie? I'd do it.

    And the 3-year duration would enable us to have Bird rights if we would want to re-sign Dampier after 3 years.

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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    Quote Originally Posted by blanket
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    I was under the impression that MLE deals have to be for at least 3 years...
    Maybe you are thinking about sign and trades. They have to be for three years.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    I don't think he will leave $8 mil on the table to go sign an MLE (even if it is the Hawks).

    If we want Dampier (which certainly seems debatable) we have to
    1) offer a S&T and
    2) we have to match the 4 years at $40 mil that Atlanta is apparently offering.

    I'm sure most of us agree that he would be a good addition but the price may be too steep. Even if we unloaded bad contracts (Croshere or Pollard), we would still have to agree to the second point.

    I'm with IndyGeezer on this one, he's squeezing Atlanta for an extra mil or two.

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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    Btown -

    What the heck? The guy just turned 30 a week ago. And you think his body is shot?

    Grant -

    One reason that Dampier was giving in mid-season when he all but announced that he would probably opt out of his contract was that he wanted to play for a contender before his career was over.

    If that really is a primary reason, I can't believe he really wants to sign with the Hawks.

    I know it is rare, but maybe Dampier is smart enough to know that his life is already made financially. Maybe he is a rare breed that would like to have the money if he can get it, but not at the expense of having to play on a bottom-dweller.

    I suppose we'll find out over the next few weeks.

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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    Oh, brother.

    JMO, but through the years, centers have enjoyed greater longetivity than forwards or guards.

    What are you proposing? That we should put our centers on the bench when they turn 30? Maybe take them out back and shoot them when they turn 32?

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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    That's the beauty of signing a 30-year-old player to a 3 year contract. The Pacers get to decide whether they want him after the age of 33.

    So why again are we worried about a contract being extended to Dampier beyond the age of 33 when we might only be talking about a 3 year contract being signed at the age of 30?

    And as for the previous post, sorry, I was just trying to interject a little humor.

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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    I want to know why in gods name Dampier would opt out of a contract just to sign a 3-year deal for less than
    Market value?
    [edit=64=1090521617][/edit]
    [edit=64=1090521635][/edit]

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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
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    Grant -

    One reason that Dampier was giving in mid-season when he all but announced that he would probably opt out of his contract was that he wanted to play for a contender before his career was over.

    If that really is a primary reason, I can't believe he really wants to sign with the Hawks.

    I know it is rare, but maybe Dampier is smart enough to know that his life is already made financially. Maybe he is a rare breed that would like to have the money if he can get it, but not at the expense of having to play on a bottom-dweller.
    Beast- I would love to believe that he would be willing to sign for less (a lot less) for the chance to play for a contender. I just don't see it.

    I'm trying to think of an instance where someone turned down more money to go play for a contender. I know Payton and Malone did it, but they were both at the ends of their careers. I can't think of a player in their prime (close enough) that has left more money on the table to go play for a contender.

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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    I want to know why in gods name Dampier would opt out of a contract just to sign a 3-year deal for less than
    Market value?

    Because his new agent talked him into it.

    Of course his new agent gets a cut of his contract, even if it's less than what he would have made otherwise, because it's new.

    Dampier should be working on a letter telling his new agent that he's fired.

    He should also be enrolling in a course titled, "If I Only had a Brain."
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    Of course we REALLY don't know how much or if any of the Dampier stories were true or figments of somebody's imagination, but it would certainly appear that he could have done a better job representing HIMSELF. He's rapidly losing big cash options, or so it would seem. He will soon be limited to Atlanta, the MLE, or whatever GS decides they want to offer him.

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    Default Re: Dampier speaks

    Damp speaks:


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