View Poll Results: Who is right on this issue?

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  • Mike is. We need to tank.

    44 68.75%
  • TMJ31 is. Have some pride and win.

    6 9.38%
  • Neither is. Either way this is not the solution.

    3 4.69%
  • Don't care. I've had enough with all this.

    11 17.19%
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Thread: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

  1. #26
    Member Noodle's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    For the sake of discussion this topic is okay, but I'm tired of it being beat into the core of the earth. I don't care if the Pacers win out that much because truth be told we were not likely to land the two studs we need. All those guys from 3-10 are just meh. Cousins is a future stud, but we will never take him anyway. Favors will bust. So, the talent deeper in the draft is virtually equal IMO, and we will not need to over pay for those other guys.

    My biggest problem is the fact that Watson consumes too many minutes considering he is not a part of the team's future. Winning without Watson I'm okay with. Just my opinion.

  2. #27

    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...



    *removed* this has no place here



    But look, you can think about the Pacers however you want to. You can cheer them on to victory as we screw ourselves for next year. I don't care, and I won't judge you for it.

    But

    *snip*

    don't talk down to me because I take a realistic view at the way things are going.

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  4. #28
    Fat, Drunk and Stupid Lord Helmet's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    Let's not get into the whole, "Who is the better fan?" argument. Jesus.
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  6. #29
    Honorary Area 55'er TMJ31's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I want the team to play the young guys.

    I want the young guys to try their best to win. The Cavs game was fantastic, for example.

    And I don't care what happens that way. Because either option is a positive.

    When Murphy and Earl win games for us..it's just...ew..

    And for the record, since AJ/Rush/Hibbert brought the Pacers back into the game against the Cavs..they haven't played a minute together in TWO games.

    For the record, I agree with this statement wholeheartedly.

    I am not advocating playing all of our vets who (as JOB loves to mention) gives us the "best chance to win".

    Let our younger players develop and show us what they can do with extended minutes.

    But if and when they actually gel together and get us some WINS, don't crucify them for it! BE GLAD that our future team core went out and got a W!
    Read my Pacers.com Guest Blog:
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  7. #30
    Fat, Drunk and Stupid Lord Helmet's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    *removed* this has no place here



    But look, you can think about the Pacers however you want to. You can cheer them on to victory as we screw ourselves for next year. I don't care, and I won't judge you for it.

    But

    *snip*

    don't talk down to me because I take a realistic view at the way things are going.
    Exactly, the "Better fan," argument is lame.

    I consider myself a huge Pacers and Colts fan, and today's game was the second Pacers game I've attended this year, what does that make me? A bad fan for this year? I don't think so. You can't measure fandom by petty stuff like this.

    In my eyes a true fan is someone who just wants what they think is best for their team, and who will always love their team no matter what, just my opinion here and we all have them, and we're all pretty big enough fans to be bickering over the tanking/non-taking of the Pacers. Let's leave that argument at that.
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  8. #31
    Honorary Area 55'er TMJ31's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    *removed* this has no place here



    But look, you can think about the Pacers however you want to. You can cheer them on to victory as we screw ourselves for next year. I don't care, and I won't judge you for it.

    But

    *snip*

    don't talk down to me because I take a realistic view at the way things are going.



    *removed* this has no place here



    I have huge amounts of respect for fans of teams like the Clippers, for example. Year after year of being horrible, yet they still maintain faith that their team can improve. How great a reward for fans like this once that day comes for their team!

    So while I appreciate you not judging me for my views, don't be so quick to automatically assume that we are "screwing ourselves" next year by winning some games.

    Has the draft lottery already taken place without my knowledge?

    Have summer trades already come and gone without me reading about them?

    Has next year's trade deadline already passed without us utilizing any of our expiring contracts?

    No? Well then I say, why not be optimistic

    *snip*

    that things can improve?

    How is that a bad thing?
    Read my Pacers.com Guest Blog:
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  9. #32
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    Quote Originally Posted by TMJ31 View Post
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    This attitude does nothing for morale.
    This attitude does nothing to encourage a winning culture.
    This attitude does nothing to develop a sense of pride and honor within our beloved Pacer franchise that has been obviously lacking since Reggie retired.
    This league isn't about attitude. It's about talent. And trying to build off of low lottery picks that net you middling prospects is a low percentage play in this league.

  10. #33
    Honorary Area 55'er TMJ31's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    This league isn't about attitude. It's about talent. And trying to build off of low lottery picks that net you middling prospects is a low percentage play in this league.
    Not about attitude?

    Look at our team.

    Guys like Roy and Brandon have both a great deal of talent (both realized and potential), yet they also are very likable people (by all accounts in the organization) and have great attitudes towards the game.

    Are you telling me you would be as happy about these 2 young prospects if they had poor, "me-first, team-second" type attitudes, but the same talent levels?
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  11. #34
    The light, not the lie. kester99's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...



    *removed* this has no place here



    Anyway, the team is going to try to win every game, regardless of anyone's opinion here. You may want them to win, or not, but they will try to win. If they didn't, it would be against the direction of the management. It would be an indication they had given up on themselves. So they won't quit trying.
    [~]) ... Cheers! Go Pacers!

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  13. #35

    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    Quote Originally Posted by TMJ31 View Post
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    *removed* this has no place here



    I have huge amounts of respect for fans of teams like the Clippers, for example. Year after year of being horrible, yet they still maintain faith that their team can improve. How great a reward for fans like this once that day comes for their team!

    So while I appreciate you not judging me for my views, don't be so quick to automatically assume that we are "screwing ourselves" next year by winning some games.

    Has the draft lottery already taken place without my knowledge?

    Have summer trades already come and gone without me reading about them?

    Has next year's trade deadline already passed without us utilizing any of our expiring contracts?

    No? Well then I say, why not be optimistic

    *snip*

    that things can improve?

    How is that a bad thing?
    It is more loyalty. I feel like they are my team.

    *snip*

    What have they done this season to give me even the slightest bit of confidence that things will get better besides a high draft pick? Nothing at all. Add to the fact that the coach might even be back next year makes it worse.

    I don't need to pretend, or convince myself... contrary to the evidence... that everything is good to still be a fan.

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  15. #36
    Honorary Area 55'er TMJ31's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    It is more loyalty. I feel like they are my team.

    *snip*

    What have they done this season to give me even the slightest bit of confidence that things will get better besides a high draft pick? Nothing at all. Add to the fact that the coach might even be back next year makes it worse.

    I don't need to pretend, or convince myself... contrary to the evidence... that everything is good to still be a fan.
    I am neither pretending nor trying to convince myself of anything.

    I believe they will turn things around because I have faith in the organization.

    It's good enough for me, but again, I guess that makes me stubborn and foolish.
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  16. #37
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    Quote Originally Posted by TMJ31 View Post
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    Not about attitude?

    Look at our team.

    Guys like Roy and Brandon have both a great deal of talent (both realized and potential), yet they also are very likable people (by all accounts in the organization) and have great attitudes towards the game.

    Are you telling me you would be as happy about these 2 young prospects if they had poor, "me-first, team-second" type attitudes, but the same talent levels?
    Look, I like Roy Hibbert and Brandon Rush, but there are plenty of guys in this league with that level of talent on most every team in the league. Talent wise, those guys are a dime a dozen and guys at their level are available every single year in the late lottery. And I like Hibbert, but right now the guy isn't even a top 10 player in his own draft class.

    My point is the league is chalk full of players with the talent of Hibbert and Rush. Guys like Hibbert and Rush aren't the difference between the Pacers and the really good teams in the league. It takes more than guys like that to bridge the difference. Sorry, but it's true.

    And FWIW, the OKC Thunder did all that tanking yet I don't see any kind of bad attitudes or bad morale as a result of it. I just see a lot of talent and a lot more winning.
    Last edited by d_c; 03-21-2010 at 07:15 PM.

  17. #38

    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    Quote Originally Posted by TMJ31 View Post
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    I am neither pretending nor trying to convince myself of anything.

    I believe they will turn things around because I have faith in the organization.

    It's good enough for me, but again, I guess that makes me stubborn and foolish.

    Totally dude, and more power to you. Everyones free to think whatever they want.

  18. #39
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    We all just need the offseason to be here already. We're all stressed for different reasons about this team.

  19. #40
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Look, I like Roy Hibbert and Brandon Rush, but there are plenty of guys in this league with that level of talent on most every team in the league. Talent wise, those guys are a dime a dozen and guys at their level are available every single year in the late lottery. And I like Hibbert, but right now the guy isn't even a top 10 player in his own draft class.

    My point is the league is chalk full of players with the talent of Hibbert and Rush. Guys like Hibbert and Rush aren't the difference between the Pacers and the really good teams in the league. It takes more than guys like that to bridge the difference. Sorry, but it's true.

    And FWIW, the OKC Thunder did all that tanking yet I don't see any kind of bad attitudes or bad morale as a result of it. I just see a lot of talent and a lot more winning.
    They also played and developed their young guys while they waited.

  20. #41

    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    It does go against my belief to lose deliberately, and that maybe karma would come back and bite us if we tanked on purpose...but I think JOB is a blithering idiot for not at a minimum using these last 2 dozen or so games to develop the young guys. I mean, he sure won't play them when we are still in the hunt for a playoff spot.

    And for those posters who say we should 'always' play to win, why is it every coach pulls his starters when his team gets hopelessly behind? Or say when the Colts pulled their starters after they clinched home field? I look at this like 'garbage time' in a game, and this season 'garbage time' began the moment we got eliminated from legitimately challenging for a playoff berth. It's absolutely no different.

  21. #42
    when will he ever learn? underwave's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    since hicks deleted my post, i'll make my point in a full sentence. (sorry for the rudeness.) rooting for one team and making one team competitive enough for playoff is not a same thing. yes. we all want our pacers to win. heck, that's why we all hang around this board. but you've got to learn something from past few years, that it got us nowhere by winning some more games end of the season but yet still short enough to reach playoff. Tanking is embarrassing but i would consider it as an option unless we have a appropriate FA ready to sign with us or S&T. we all want the same thing. to add W, moreover accomplish it by adding talent asap in every possible way.(though trying without looking needy- bird saying "please watch the game" publicly was a very bold move, though honset)

  22. #43
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    My whole thing is, why now? We've been losing all season, and there's nothing to play for, we're all looking forward to a high pick, and we go and start winning, lol...

    Winning is great, but why not do that all season long? Why lose all year, and then consciously lose 4-6 spots in the lottery at the very end for no real good reason, other than morale? What's better for morale, a few extra wins, or a super-stud in the draft? If they could win now, why couldn't they win earlier?
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  23. #44
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    They also played and developed their young guys while they waited.
    They could have played and developed them till the moon turned blue, but it wouldn't have amounted to jack squat if they weren't as talented as they are.

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  25. #45
    Edge of Reason GO!!!!!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    do you think the nets fans how ever many there are will care in June where they finished this year, John Wall will mend all the losing pain they may have endured....


    Ya Think Ya Used Enough Dynamite there Butch...


  26. #46
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    took the board two years to finally realize the value of tanking. wow. time and time again i had to defend my stance that high draft picks is how you become a contender, and finally, the board seems to agree! albeit, probably too late :-(

  27. #47

    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    Quote Originally Posted by millertime90 View Post
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    took the board two years to finally realize the value of tanking. wow. time and time again i had to defend my stance that high draft picks is how you become a contender, and finally, the board seems to agree! albeit, probably too late :-(
    To be fair, the last couple of years we were in the playoff chase right up to the last few games.

    Not so this year.

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  29. #48
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    Real talk...I rooted for the team in the beginning, because I WAS VERY CONFIDENT that this team could win, and reach the playoffs for the 1st time in a long time. Roy showed some great improvement, Ford starting showing that he belonged at the PG, Granger was putting up big numbers, D. Jones was looking like a great surprise offseason pickup, Hansbrough gave me hope, and Murphy was tolerable. Then from December to March, I saw some of the most incompetent coaching and players tuning out that I have ever seen that effectively eliminated us from the playoffs with FLYING COLORS. We DIDN'T SQUEAK out of the playoffs...we freaking got in a rocket and flew out of the playoffs.

    During that period, I recognized that the coach is the problem, and pray that he won't be here next season. Reality kicks in, and I think "This is not a complete loss of a season. We can probably get a good impact player at 3rd-6th pick". Then...then...they start playing like they SHOULD have been playing since the season started. WTF? They were suppose to have this "We are the World" attitude when it would have meant something.

    On the real, I'm tried of our team being the Bridesmaid of the NBA every year. I want to tear down lamp posts and street signs in June in downtown Indianapolis within my lifetime. Heck, we still don't know what we really got as a team, because JOB probably won't play the same winning combinations next year anyways. JOB hasn't impressed me as being the most intelligent, personable coach to take this team anywhere.

    We might still be okay, because Rush, Hibbert, and Hansbrough turned out to be descent to great picks.

  30. #49
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    The tit-for-tat on faith is now over, gentleman. I will delete any further replies about it because this is not the place for such comments.

  31. #50
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    Default Re: More Fuel to the Lottery Standings Fire...

    Quote Originally Posted by millertime90 View Post
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    took the board two years to finally realize the value of tanking. wow. time and time again i had to defend my stance that high draft picks is how you become a contender, and finally, the board seems to agree! albeit, probably too late :-(
    The past two years we had a more realistic chance at the playoffs... but once we were officially eliminated it could have helped. It's a lot different this year because we aren't even close to being in the playoffs.

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