View Poll Results: Should the Pacers Tank?

Voters
52. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    38 73.08%
  • No

    14 26.92%
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 76 to 90 of 90

Thread: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

  1. #76
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3,436

    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    There's still a chance at us getting the 4th pick at least if we don't finish past 6th.
    The only teams that can possibly get the 4th overall pick are the teams with the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th records. It's not possible for any other teams to land the #4 pick.

  2. #77

    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by SycamoreKen View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    What would the players have to gain by laying down and losing? if most of them will not be here, I'm sure they want to play well enough to hook up somewhere else.
    Please go back and read what I said.

    Originally Posted by dlewyus
    It would be wrong to ask the players to lose on purpose.

    What I meant was that the players available for play should be those that give us little chance to win.
    Last edited by dlewyus; 03-21-2010 at 02:53 PM. Reason: Took out some unnecessary sarcasm

  3. #78

    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Seriously can you blame Bird he's a legend. You don't become a legend, a great, a champion by accepting losing. It's like a foreign language Bird doesn't understand that.

    JOB " Larry we should lose these last games to get a better pick"
    LB "HUH?"

    JOB "LOSE"
    LB "WHAT?"

    JOB "LOSE GAMES LARRY"
    LB "LOOK JIM YOU'RE TALKING FUNNY I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT. WHEN'D U LEARN GERMAN?"


    Bird can't even say lose


    Bird knows or should know that you lose some battles so you can win the war. Its the war that's important to win. He should not ask OB or the players to play to lose. What he should do is make it nearly impossible for them to do so. In doing so, he will be winning what is most important to win. Then he can pat the players and the coach on the back and tell them they did a good job. Bird has already said, "The losses are on me". Any executive has to understand this concept.

  4. #79
    Da Mouf Squirrelz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Tyler's Trophy Cabinet
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Most of these posts make my blood boil. I loved watching the wins. I could get hit by a bus next week and I can at least leave the earth knowing that I saw my beloved pacers beat the evil Pistons one last time.

    Life is way too short.



    Are you a glutton for punishment? The Pacers are doomed for mediocrity for years and years if we/they continue this haphazard form of "running" the franchise. The fact is, we have/had a great shot at being a real contender for a top 2 pick, and now we're blowing our chance at something special (Wall, Turner) for a few meaningless wins and extra minutes for the old guys? These wins do nothing, absolutely nothing, for the franchise. Nobody wants to sign in Indiana, don't you see? We HAVE to utilize the draft, but again, we're blowing it... We're up by freakin 18 to the Thunder. Hooray for a 6-9th pick!!

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Squirrelz For This Useful Post:


  6. #80

    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelz View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Are you a glutton for punishment? The Pacers are doomed for mediocrity for years and years if we/they continue this haphazard form of "running" the franchise. The fact is, we have/had a great shot at being a real contender for a top 2 pick, and now we're blowing our chance at something special (Wall, Turner) for a few meaningless wins and extra minutes for the old guys? These wins do nothing, absolutely nothing, for the franchise. Nobody wants to sign in Indiana, don't you see? We HAVE to utilize the draft, but again, we're blowing it... We're up by freakin 18 to the Thunder. Hooray for a 6-9th pick!!
    Obviously we just werent bad enough of a team to have a legit chance at 1 or 2. After Evan and Turner I feel as if the rest of the field is close. We could draft a player at 7 that is better than who we could get at 4. You just never know. We could have landed 3 and he blew out his knee his first game. You just never know.

    I'm just happy we are actually getting a top 10 pick for once...

    I really don't feel that drafting 4 or drafting 8 is going to matter. Whoever we draft in the top 10 this year is going to be the highest person we have drafted in a very long time and is going to be expected to start and contribute for years...

    I'd say the glass is half full...If winning out helps our young players progress than so be it...

    My point is there is a future all star out there right now that wont even be drafted in the first round.
    Last edited by Midcoasted; 03-21-2010 at 03:32 PM.

  7. #81
    Member Trophy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    8,556

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    ok....what?

    There is zero chance of a team getting the 4th pick if they dont finish in the bottom 4. They only hold a lottery for the first 3 picks.

    After that, you can only be pushed down 1-3 spots. You cannot improve your selection.
    That doesn't make any sense because Memphis finished with the 6th worst record and wound up with the 2nd pick in last year's draft.

  8. #82
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3,436

    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That doesn't make any sense because Memphis finished with the 6th worst record and wound up with the 2nd pick in last year's draft.
    You're not understanding how the lottery works.

    Yes, Memphis got the 2nd pick. They could also gotten the #1 pick or the #3 pick. Could have also gotten the #7, #8 or #9 pick. But those were the only possibilities.

    There was no way they were going to get the #4 or #5 pick, or any other pick other than the ones I listed above. The ones I listed are the only ones logistically and mathematically possible for a team finishing with the 6th worst record.

  9. #83

    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That doesn't make any sense because Memphis finished with the 6th worst record and wound up with the 2nd pick in last year's draft.
    yea, all the lottery teams get put in the lotter for the first 3 picks. After those three picks are given out, the picks go in order of worst record.

    So say the lottery was held, and the team with the second worst pick got #1, the fifth worst pick got #2, and the worst team got #3, the draft order would be

    1. second to worst team
    2. fifth worst team
    3. first worst team
    4. third worst team
    5. fourth worst team
    6. sixth worst team
    7. seventh worst team

    ect...

    you can't get a fourth pick if you aren't in the bottom four teams because after the first three picks the team with the worst record available gets the pick.

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sookie For This Useful Post:


  11. #84
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3,436

    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    you can't get a fourth pick if you aren't in the bottom four teams because after the first three picks the team with the worst record available gets the pick.
    Here's the general rules for the lottery.

    -A team can get one of the top 3 picks.

    -A team can get a pick that his equal to their record in the standings (i.e. 6th worst record getting the #6 pick).

    -A team can get knocked down up to 3 spots from their record (i.e. 4th worst record getting the #5, #6 or #7 pick). Only exception to that rule are the 3 teams in the "back" of the lottery. 12th worst record can only fall 2 spots at the most, 13th worst record can only fall 1 spot and the 14th worst record can't fall at all.

    Those are the only possible picks a team in the lottery with the xth worst record can get.

  12. #85

    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Following the Pacers win over the Thunder, here's a mini convo via twitter between Mike Wells and Chad Ford:

    @Wells222 Pacers beat Thunder 121-101

    @chadfordinsider: I love how the Pacers are now playing themselves out of a good lottery pick. Way to go Obie

    @Wells222 I guess they haven't gotten the memo that they NEED a high draft pick to help speed up the rebuilding project

    @chadfordinsider: How do we get it to them?

    @Wells222 Pacers go from 4th worst in league to 8th worst in less than a week

    @chadfordinsider: That's the difference between Favors/Cousins and Cole Aldrich
    WE ARE NOT GETTING ERIC GORDON

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Aw Heck For This Useful Post:


  14. #86
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    20,152

    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Justify however anyone wishes, but after the past 3 seasons, 2 of which were obviously lost causes there's no reason to be trying to win out as the main goal. That is just counter to long term goals.

    When you ultimately figure out a season is a lost season, be it during training camp or by the ASG (or whenever), you start reshuffling the lineup to accomplish other things than winning in the short term. As already said that includes things like deeper rotations, more minutes for young players to develop, evaluate, and even showcase them, trading veteran players that are not part of the future for salary relief (even if it leaves you thin at a position), use the D league for fillers (and even to give some players a better look in the big league), don't throw the kitchen sink at any game to get one sole win... instead continue 'do what you do'... etc...

    But you still coach the PLAYERS to win... You don't ask them to lose. You DEMAND they play hard and play the right way. You just accept that their inexperience could lead to a loss (or losses) in the short term. You accept that a tighter rotation might yield better results... although have to understand those 'better' results are simply a better record in a losing season that's long ago been marked off no matter what.

    In fact, at a certain point I'm not even sure there's an argument for ticket sales when you keep trying to win as the sole purpose in a lost season. The casual fans don't care any longer (is it realistic to think the team can suddenly go .800 to get their attention?). The diehards understand the season is lost. The ones who really do care about the team are wanting to see the young players and are thinking about the off season (draft, trades). Wins actually dampen their enthusiasm when the chance at a high pick and increased lottery odds are within the team's grasp.

    And lastly... at some point wins get easier... and even more meaningless... because other teams are playing for draft position and playoff teams are getting locked in with every game closer to the season's end.

    We had a perfect opportunity to play it extremely cautious with Granger and totally blew it by rushing him back into the lineup. That should tell anyone paying attention that this team is not trying to position itself for the draft... it's playing to win every game it can as the #1 goal... even against teams that could care less about winning...

    ... Just let this season end...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  15. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Bball For This Useful Post:


  16. #87
    Member Trophy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    8,556

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    That cleared up some confussion. Thanks.

  17. #88
    Da Mouf Squirrelz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Tyler's Trophy Cabinet
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Justify however anyone wishes, but after the past 3 seasons, 2 of which were obviously lost causes there's no reason to be trying to win out as the main goal. That is just counter to long term goals.

    When you ultimately figure out a season is a lost season, be it during training camp or by the ASG (or whenever), you start reshuffling the lineup to accomplish other things than winning in the short term. As already said that includes things like deeper rotations, more minutes for young players to develop, evaluate, and even showcase them, trading veteran players that are not part of the future for salary relief (even if it leaves you thin at a position), use the D league for fillers (and even to give some players a better look in the big league), don't throw the kitchen sink at any game to get one sole win... instead continue 'do what you do'... etc...

    But you still coach the PLAYERS to win... You don't ask them to lose. You DEMAND they play hard and play the right way. You just accept that their inexperience could lead to a loss (or losses) in the short term. You accept that a tighter rotation might yield better results... although have to understand those 'better' results are simply a better record in a losing season that's long ago been marked off no matter what.

    In fact, at a certain point I'm not even sure there's an argument for ticket sales when you keep trying to win as the sole purpose in a lost season. The casual fans don't care any longer (is it realistic to think the team can suddenly go .800 to get their attention?). The diehards understand the season is lost. The ones who really do care about the team are wanting to see the young players and are thinking about the off season (draft, trades). Wins actually dampen their enthusiasm when the chance at a high pick and increased lottery odds are within the team's grasp.

    And lastly... at some point wins get easier... and even more meaningless... because other teams are playing for draft position and playoff teams are getting locked in with every game closer to the season's end.

    We had a perfect opportunity to play it extremely cautious with Granger and totally blew it by rushing him back into the lineup. That should tell anyone paying attention that this team is not trying to position itself for the draft... it's playing to win every game it can as the #1 goal... even against teams that could care less about winning...

    ... Just let this season end...
    Best post I've read in a long time. Sums it up perfectly. Jim O'Brien needs to read this.

  18. #89
    Member PR07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,962

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    @Wells222 Pacers beat Thunder 121-101

    @chadfordinsider: I love how the Pacers are now playing themselves out of a good lottery pick. Way to go Obie

    @Wells222 I guess they haven't gotten the memo that they NEED a high draft pick to help speed up the rebuilding project

    @chadfordinsider: How do we get it to them?

    @Wells222 Pacers go from 4th worst in league to 8th worst in less than a week

    @chadfordinsider: That's the difference between Favors/Cousins and Cole Aldrich
    I want to throw up after reading this.

  19. #90
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,703

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Justify however anyone wishes, but after the past 3 seasons, 2 of which were obviously lost causes there's no reason to be trying to win out as the main goal. That is just counter to long term goals.

    When you ultimately figure out a season is a lost season, be it during training camp or by the ASG (or whenever), you start reshuffling the lineup to accomplish other things than winning in the short term. As already said that includes things like deeper rotations, more minutes for young players to develop, evaluate, and even showcase them, trading veteran players that are not part of the future for salary relief (even if it leaves you thin at a position), use the D league for fillers (and even to give some players a better look in the big league), don't throw the kitchen sink at any game to get one sole win... instead continue 'do what you do'... etc...

    But you still coach the PLAYERS to win... You don't ask them to lose. You DEMAND they play hard and play the right way. You just accept that their inexperience could lead to a loss (or losses) in the short term. You accept that a tighter rotation might yield better results... although have to understand those 'better' results are simply a better record in a losing season that's long ago been marked off no matter what.

    In fact, at a certain point I'm not even sure there's an argument for ticket sales when you keep trying to win as the sole purpose in a lost season. The casual fans don't care any longer (is it realistic to think the team can suddenly go .800 to get their attention?). The diehards understand the season is lost. The ones who really do care about the team are wanting to see the young players and are thinking about the off season (draft, trades). Wins actually dampen their enthusiasm when the chance at a high pick and increased lottery odds are within the team's grasp.

    And lastly... at some point wins get easier... and even more meaningless... because other teams are playing for draft position and playoff teams are getting locked in with every game closer to the season's end.

    We had a perfect opportunity to play it extremely cautious with Granger and totally blew it by rushing him back into the lineup. That should tell anyone paying attention that this team is not trying to position itself for the draft... it's playing to win every game it can as the #1 goal... even against teams that could care less about winning...

    ... Just let this season end...
    I nominate this as the "Post of the 2nd half of the season".

    NOTE - Suggestion to Admins, you've created a "Thanks" button...why not create a "Post of the Year Nomination" button? It would make it easier for you to keep track of these at the end of the season.

    It totally encapsulates what I ( and many Posters ) think. Play our younger Players to develop/evaluate them while expecting losses due to inexperience but hoping for a Win when the younger core of Players pull it together and teaching them ( at the same time ) that it's very important to still go out there to compete and try to win every game.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

Similar Threads

  1. Plus-Minus explanation please
    By pristinecollector in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-12-2009, 02:41 PM
  2. Can someone please cut & paste this article?
    By Los Angeles in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-29-2004, 10:22 PM
  3. Chad Ford's unprotected list
    By Unclebuck in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-15-2004, 07:08 PM
  4. 06-15-04
    By Will Galen in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-15-2004, 05:29 PM
  5. Wednesday Insider 3-10-2004
    By Ragnar in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-10-2004, 04:30 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •