View Poll Results: Should the Pacers Tank?

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Thread: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

  1. #26
    Member Dr. Awesome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    So the future of the franchise rests on the difference between the 5th pick and the 8th pick? This rookie class is the one that will turn it all around?

    That boat won't float.
    Theres 4 potential franchise changing rookies in this draft: John Wall, Derrick Favors, Evan Turner, and DeMarcus Cousins. Outside that, there is a huge dropoff. So yes, the difference between 4 and 5 is THAT great to me. If we don't have a top 4 pick, I'd rather trade it for a young PG than draft someone we don't need.

    Jim O'Brien has royally screwed this franchise enough, now once again he is pulling together wins when we don't want them. Seriously, he stops with his idiotic rotations at the end of the season.

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  3. #27
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    I'll just copy part of what I wrote elsewhere.

    The way the NBA works, more losses pushes you towards the front of the line in this June's draft, and it also (as we all know) at least slightly improves the chances of winning the draft lottery.

    I'm not going to hold my breath on winning the John Wall sweepstakes, but I'd still prefer the Pacers pick near 4th as opposed to near 9th or 10th (check the standings; it's not inconceivable).

    All I care about right now is seeing our current youth show what they've got, and our spot in the draft line getting better (by a little, or by a lot, and either is clearly better than making it worse).

    Nothing else matters right now, IMO. I'm not worried about the team moving, I'm not worried about the fanbase being worse than it already is, and I'm sure as hell not worried about making the 2010 playoffs.
    I'll add that I'm also not worried about our 'momentum into the next season', which was brought up as a reason to get as many W's a possible.

    You come into every season with the ultimate goal being the title. The Pacers failed already. These wins mean nothing. Regardless of how many Ws or Ls they rack up this final month, they will start with a clean slate in October, as they always do.

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  5. #28
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    maybe we're anticipating this felton trade as it is, so we're trying and seeing how well we can do? idk, just a speculation.

  6. #29
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by HanSolo View Post
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    maybe we're anticipating this felton trade as it is, so we're trying and seeing how well we can do? idk, just a speculation.


    What does that have to do with how they play this last month?

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  8. #30
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    Seriously, he stops with his idiotic rotations at the end of the season.
    this is the part that makes me mad..............

  9. #31
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    What does that have to do with how they play this last month?
    that they don't need another PG in John Wall because they already have their eyes on Felton

  10. #32
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    "When you stop trying to win you never will win" - Sportfireman.

    Losing is a mindset ............ how can you accept losing and me a winner? Do you think the greats accepted losing? Magic, Jordan, BIRD........

    its one thing to want your team to lose for draft spot or whatever your reason BUT never should you want the guys you want to be winners accept being losers for any reason.
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

    Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God. kjv
    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

  11. #33
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    I think Pacer fans better start looking at the increasing odds of a few things:
    We're still playing to win above all else.
    O'Brien is still playing to win.
    O'Brien is going to be here when the bells rings to start next season.

    I'm losing hope we actually plan to fire him. I never considered it a done deal he'd be fired in the first place.... even though he should've never even gotten this far.
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  12. #34
    Fat, Drunk and Stupid Lord Helmet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    I love watching my team win, with that being said, this season has been bad, really bad, and although we've seen some of the young guys improve a little, going out there and winning these games is doing nothing but hurting our chances at possibly improving this team as early as this fall.

    Young guys getting experience, and playing well, but falling up short is the perfect scenario.

    The Pacers are obviously not going to go out and try to lose games on purpose, but they could just start playing different lineups, start McRoberts and Price, which, good ol' O'Brien is still starting Murphy and Watson, who possibly won't even be here much longer, and seeing them get the bulk of minutes in such a trying and ****ty season is just plain annoying. We know what they got, we don't know what McRoberts, and the other young guns have.

    Winning these games means NOTHING, except a W, we aren't making the playoffs, and we've known that for sometime, play the young guys, experiment with different lineups, I don't know, just do something.

    I understand tanking does not mean a #1 pick, but in a season like this, when the games don't and haven't mattered in a long time, losing a little bit more to try to take the draft lottery odds isn't going to hurt, it's not like we decided to go for the draft instead of playoffs, we decided to go for the lottery instead of having a number on the left side of the W/L column increase by a tad.

    Draft doesn't have a savior like a LeBron or 'Melo, but what else do we have to do? The summer for us is 2011, all we have in hopes of making this team *much* better this fall is hopefully getting top college talent and also hoping that this team is
    healthy. We may sign some people, but we aren't going to get a potential game-changer via free agency this year, we'll get players who could be good on contending teams (Watson, Jones), not teams like us, that can't make the playoffs in the terrible East.

    This team lacks talent, there is some potential great talent in the draft, why not go for it, and see what it can do for us this fall?
    Super Bowl XLI Champions
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  14. #35
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
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    Do you think the greats accepted losing? Magic, Jordan, BIRD........
    No, but the teams that were bad enough to draft them sure felt better about it afterwords.

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  16. #36
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by cordobes View Post
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    Tanking is mostly a myth, especially at this point of the season. If the Pistons and the Pacers were tanking, Granger and Stuckey wouldn't have played yesterday.
    Except for the teams who suddenly sit some of their starters with mysterious injuries, or change the rotations and give end-of-the-bench players more minutes, or the head coach (remember Pat Reilly?) deciding to turn his duties over to an assistant (and sit a starter) while he is supposedly scouting college players for a month.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
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    "When you stop trying to win you never will win" - Sportfireman.

    Losing is a mindset ............ how can you accept losing and me a winner? Do you think the greats accepted losing? Magic, Jordan, BIRD........

    its one thing to want your team to lose for draft spot or whatever your reason BUT never should you want the guys you want to be winners accept being losers for any reason.
    Agree with your premise, but these guys will not be winners and most likely never will be (Dun, Murp, Solo, Watson, Head), and the only reason the 'greats' landed on those Celtic/Bull/Laker teams is because they sucked the year before or made good trades with teams that did.

    Thus, IMHO, it matters little if we lose all the remaining games as I think a top pick impact player will quickly change the mentality of those players who remain on the team. I think those players I mentioned will always accept being losers because for the most part that's all they've ever known since coming into the league...the die is cast and they won't change now, and winning a few games at the end of this year won't change anything...other than the franchises future success.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by OrganizedConfusion View Post
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    Only 11 games out of the 8 seed, yeah!!!



    So you are saying we have a chance??











    .
    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

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  20. #39
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    You were right to delete that.

  21. #40
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Only there for a moment (maybe 5 seconds). I guess your admin powers see all.

    Sorry, it wasn't fair to get personal. But now that you've seen it, all I can do is apologize. I think those characters would play to win, regardless. Anyway, I'm sorry.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

  22. #41
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    No apology is necessary. I was reacting to the poor comparison; I wasn't upset about it and didn't take it personally.

    You simply can't even begin to compare characters (fictional or not) who die or risk their lives fighting for a cause to playing NBA basketball games. It just doesn't work.

    If you aren't playing for the trophy, you are playing for nothing but pride. I don't blame the players one bit for trying to win. I would simply ask that we let it be the young guys who we still need to learn about, who still need development, and who will be here for the long-term to be the ones playing the big roles (starting, and as many minutes as they can handle).

    So I'm not pro-tanking as tanking implies the team trying to lose.

    As a fan of the team, and someone who wants titles more than anything else, I want them to have as good of a chance as possible to win the trophy. Their chances for this season are virtually done, and realistically they've been dead and buried for months.

    So the focus shifts ahead a season. First thing they can do to improve their chances of winning something significant is to add more talent. Next available method of adding talent? The June draft. What ensures them picking as high as possible? Losing meaningless games. So I will hope that they lose (but I want them to be trying to win).

    It's funny to me that you or others would call that a loser's mentality when, in fact, it's completely driven by my desire to win.

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  24. #42
    Honorary Area 55'er TMJ31's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    This whole topic is such a emotionally draining one.

    1) I want the Pacers to win every time they suit up.

    2) I want the Pacers (If they do not have a legit chance at a playoff spot... Even 8th Seed) to get the best possible draft choice that they can.

    Unfortunately, these 2 criteria are in direct conflict with each other.

    Which brings me to point number...

    3) Point number 1 always takes priority over point number 2.

    I want my Pacers to win when they play basketball games. Any other view or ulterior motive is irrelevant. Losing begets more losing. Winning encourages more winning.

    I also truly believe that the teams that purposely tank will get their comeuppance when the lottery balls are drawn.

    The teams like the Pacers, who have a smaller chance at a top 3 pick, but actually PLAYED their final 20 games to win... Those teams can hold their heads high, and still have a chance at a good pick.

    If this view makes me a shortsighted or foolish Pacers fan... So be it. I want my team to win when they step on the court.
    Read my Pacers.com Guest Blog:
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  26. #43
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    So we could go 27-55 and end up picking 8 and 9th without another team bumping us in the lottery? Damn, the league is bottom heavy this year. 27-55 seems like it could get you the 4th or 5th pick most years.

    I'm actually not that upset about this. We never had much of a chance at Wall or Turner. I have watched Favors' last 3 games, and really, he does not impress me too much. I'm not sure if Cousins will ever be better than Zach Randolph ever will be.

    Picking 8th, some dumb team before us could pick up Aldrich. We can go ahead and draft Patterson, who I've wanted for 2 years, and be done with it.
    Already stoked for 2013-2014.

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  28. #44
    Administrator Roaming Gnome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    *snip*... I don't blame the players one bit for trying to win. I would simply ask that we let it be the young guys who we still need to learn about, who still need development, and who will be here for the long-term to be the ones playing the big roles (starting, and as many minutes as they can handle).

    So I'm not pro-tanking as tanking implies the team trying to lose... *snip*
    This is where I'm at on this, but sometimes reading thru here... I get the vibe that getting the young guys as many minutes as they can handle is still a losing proposition for some, if not most of the "Tanks on Red Square" crowd.

    Personally, I'm starting to feel its a moot point about where our draft position will be regardless of who plays the games. I just don't think we are bad enough to end up being 4th or 5th worst in the league to have a good shot at the lottery. I honestly think we will be picking 6th 7th or 8th regardless who plays here on out on the roster.
    Last edited by Roaming Gnome; 03-20-2010 at 03:23 PM.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

  29. #45
    Administrator Roaming Gnome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan
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    So we could go 27-55 and end up picking 8 and 9th without another team bumping us in the lottery? Damn, the league is bottom heavy this year. 27-55 seems like it could get you the 4th or 5th pick most years.
    I wanted to put your theory to the test and see how many were worse then 27-55 over the years...
    2000-01: 6 teams
    2001-02: 3 teams
    2002-03: 4 teams
    2003-04: 3 teams
    2004-05: 4 teams
    2005-06: 4 teams
    2006-07: 2 teams
    2007-08: 2 teams
    2008-09: 6 teams

    Looks like you are right. Damn, this season really sucks!
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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  31. #46

    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Pride conquers all.

    Isn't that "love?"

    And isn't pride the one that goes "before a fall?"
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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  33. #47
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    I wanted to put your theory to the test and see how many were worse then 27-55 over the years...
    2000-01: 6 teams
    2001-02: 3 teams
    2002-03: 4 teams
    2003-04: 3 teams
    2004-05: 4 teams
    2005-06: 4 teams
    2006-07: 2 teams
    2007-08: 2 teams
    2008-09: 6 teams

    Looks like you are right. Damn, this season really sucks!
    I appreciate you doing the "heavy lifting" for me, my only inclination to even say that is years of watching the draft and seeing a team's record displayed on the draft show around the time that they pick.
    Already stoked for 2013-2014.

  34. #48
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    So we could go 27-55 and end up picking 8 and 9th without another team bumping us in the lottery? Damn, the league is bottom heavy this year. 27-55 seems like it could get you the 4th or 5th pick most years.

    I'm actually not that upset about this. We never had much of a chance at Wall or Turner. I have watched Favors' last 3 games, and really, he does not impress me too much. I'm not sure if Cousins will ever be better than Zach Randolph ever will be.

    Picking 8th, some dumb team before us could pick up Aldrich. We can go ahead and draft Patterson, who I've wanted for 2 years, and be done with it.
    If Patterson is there a 8-9 then Bird better get him, he will atleast be a competent player who knows how to work hard.

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  36. #49
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    Ok I have a question for everyone that wants to participate..... im kind of confused on what some of you want as far as losing goes.

    A. Team that unintentionally loses games and gets a better chance at a higher draft pick? (Bad team)

    or

    B. Players that purposly lose games for better chances at a higher draft pick? (Tanking)
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

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    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

  37. #50
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    Default Re: Wins over Bobcats and Pistons Change NBA Standings

    My view with tanking involves the process of this 3 year plan. Year 2 is the year to tank if you have the opportunity to do so. Because next season we need the players to put on a good show and have a decent record otherwise no Free Agent is going to consider joining us.

    So yea we should tank, and I want a coach who will play the bench in order to force us to tank. Does that mean not start the starters? No that mean dont' play them 40 minutes a night. No reason they can't split time.

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