View Poll Results: Who do you like better as a pick for the Pacers?

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  • You would rather have Patterson.

    31 46.27%
  • You would rather have Monroe.

    36 53.73%
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Thread: Patterson or Monroe

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    Patterson's a good athlete, but he's not a great athlete. What worries me with him, is that he doesn't have freak athleticism and he's undersized. Guys like Gerald Wallace and Josh Smith can get away with it at the 4 with because of their athleticism, I'm not sure he can.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    I always think Carl Landry when I think of Patterson.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I always think Carl Landry when I think of Patterson.
    We haven't really discussed much about Patterson's offensive game. When it comes to Landry....his low-post scoring, craftiness and solid mobility helps him out a lot when it comes to differentiating himself from other 6'9" and under PFs.

    How's Patterson's offensive game?

    As you and d_c are suggesting......when it comes to Patterson....are we talking about an above average low-post scorer like Landry?

    or

    Are we talking more about a Chris Wilcox type PF that you don't really pay too much attention to on the Offensive end?


    It's quite clear that on the offensive end....Monroe is much better all-around scorer.......but my guess is that doesn't necessarily mean that Patterson doesn't have any real Offensive game to speak of.

    One more thing.....it would seem that Monroe has often been compared to Odom....but based off of the discussions that we've had about him....especially his "average" athleticsm.....does he sound more like a PF version of Brad Miller?
    Last edited by CableKC; 03-17-2010 at 11:16 AM.
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  4. #29
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    Carl Landry has a very clever face up game with a mid-range jumper that is among the best in the league for a PF. Patterson just doesn't have that kind of offensive arsenal.

    Monroe is is very much at Juwan Howard's level of size and athleticsm to go along with the passing skills of Webber. Think of him as an older version of Webber when he had lost much of that athleticism.

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Carl Landry has a very clever face up game with a mid-range jumper that is among the best in the league for a PF. Patterson just doesn't have that kind of offensive arsenal.

    Monroe is is very much at Juwan Howard's level of size and athleticsm to go along with the passing skills of Webber. Think of him as an older version of Webber when he had lost much of that athleticism.
    I don't mind the offensive skill set that Monroe brings....but if I were to compare him to Webber after he lost his athleticsm....then I would consider that a major factor given the severe lack of athleticsm what we already have with our current and future roster of Frontcourt Player. I guess the question is which is more important for the short and long term.

    Having a Player that has limited Athleticsm that could become another defensive liability but has a better Offensive game?

    or

    Having a Player that doesn't have as good of an Offensive game but won't likely be a liability on the defensive end?

    Is Patterson's offense just considered average ( at best ) with no real discernable offensive skills in the Low-Post that it's blindingly obvious that Monroe is a better overall Player?
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  6. #31
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    Patterson - Up until this year, he was a back-to-the-basket oriented player. That was his predominant role. Cousins came in and was the bigger player, so Patterson adapted his game to the mid-range more and added an outside shot. He is a good all-around player and has more bulk and strength than he gets credit for. I think he compares favorably to Landry, except he is bigger and not as quick as Landry IMO. He is a good rebounder and getting better defensively. I think some of his defensive lapses have been the cause of guarding the post previously and now trying to figure out how to guard the perimeter. I don't see Patterson as a perimeter player, but I think he is the perfect guy who does everything well. Fundamentally sound. Very good athleticism and strength, but not great. Good basketball IQ. Great ball player to have on your team, but not a HOF player. I could see him being an Armen Gilliam type of player, just not quite as brutish and with a little more range. He will be very good in the pick and roll IMO. Very much a 15 and 8 guy.

    Monroe - Monroe is asked to be the only big on the court. This makes his job very difficult. He plays with three guards and a SF typically. So as for the toughness thing, I discredit some of that when you actually see some of the rebounds he does make. The one thing I will say about Monroe is that he has a bigger frame than what he is filling right now. I think his strength as he gets older will improve dramatically, which will help him significantly. I think Monroe is perfect for what we need. He is big enough to be a center. He is versatile enough to play PF. He will struggle trying to matchup against a guy like Nowitzki though. Monroe is not unathletic as some here are portraying him to be. He is actually quite a bit quicker than most big men. I have seen him drive on players smaller than him and be successful. Monroe has a back-to-the-basket offensive game. A lot of the games people have watched on national TV have him going up against zone defenses, which he is still effective because he plays the high post so well and passes through the zone. He won't face a zone in the NBA, which I think will help people in evaluating his capabilities. He is long and blocks shots. He could work a little on his weakside shot blocking, but usually dribble penetration against Georgetown happens on the side Monroe isn't. He has great touch and is a great ball handler for a big. I think he has a lot of fire as a competitor, but that is debateable by many on here.

    I think Monroe is clearly the better prospect because his upside is so much more than Patterson's. I LOVE BOTH of these players and will be very happy if the Pacers land one of them. There is no way we are drafting at 4. The likelihood is that we will be 6-8, which would be appropriate for either of these players IMO.
    Last edited by pacergod2; 03-17-2010 at 03:25 PM.

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  8. #32
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    I think Monroe is clearly the better prospect because his upside is so much more than Patterson's. I LOVE BOTH of these players and will be very happy if the Pacers land one of them. There is no way we are drafting at 4. The likelihood is that we will be 6-8, which would be appropriate for either of these players IMO.
    I'd guess that one would have to go back to the tapes from 2 seasons ago when Hibbert was with Georgetown, but I wonder how the both of them do when they were playing together at the same time.

    Defensively, knowing our deficiencies with Hibbert's lack of speed...mobility...athleticsm....**pretty much everything under the sun**.....which Player better complements Hibbert and/or Hansborough more in the Frontcourt?
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  9. #33
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    I was in Lexington all weekend, and the buzz was that Paterson might stick around for another year. He's got eligibility left and could stick around if he doesn't like his draft position or if KY doesn't go far in the tourney. At least that's the word in Lexington.
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  10. #34

    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    [QUOTE=d_c;974663]

    Patterson just doesn't have that kind of offensive arsenal. /QUOTE]


    WHAT? He's got a mid-range game AND developed a 3pt game this year!

    I'm one of the biggest advocates of getting Carl Landry in a Pacers uni on this board, and Patterson has more range than Landry does. Patterson has a total package offense type game where he can play in the paint or outside.

  11. #35
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    Paterson clearly compliments Roy more. He is a better rebounder and team defender.

  12. #36
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    [QUOTE=Justin Tyme;974796]
    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Patterson just doesn't have that kind of offensive arsenal. /QUOTE]


    WHAT? He's got a mid-range game AND developed a 3pt game this year!

    I'm one of the biggest advocates of getting Carl Landry in a Pacers uni on this board, and Patterson has more range than Landry does. Patterson has a total package offense type game where he can play in the paint or outside.
    Landry this season has been one of the better 4th quarter scorers in the league (at least when he was a 6th man for Houston). His team would throw him the ball in crunchtime and say "Score for us. make something happen." And amazingly, he would.

    I just don't know if Patterson is that type of offensive player. Yeah, he's worked on his game and added to it, but I don't see him as the same kind of offensive threat at the next level. I don't ever see him as the type of a guy his team is going to go to when they need a bucket; not in the same way Landry has performed anyways.

  13. #37
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    Paterson clearly compliments Roy more. He is a better rebounder and team defender.
    I agree with this.

    I don't like the comparison of Monroe to Webber or Howard. He's more athletic than Howard and smarter than CWebb... but then again, isn't everybody?


    Monroe can shoot and drive... plays out of the high post well and has decent back-to-the-basket moves (albeit, they need some work). Greg is crafty and finesse... very heady.

    Patterson is speed and power and plays d well, particularly against the pick n' roll.

    I also agree that Monroe has the potential to slide to the 5 spot and play alongside Tyler, where PP won't be able to as easily... unless PP is the next Chuck Hayes... the dude is ripped, but I'm not sure he's that blessed.

    I'd like to see Monroe more against PnRs and see PP's post offense, which I don't think he has much.

    I'm leaning on Monroe based on his talent at age 19 and potential to play the 5 and be a compliment to Tyler... If we didn't have Tyler, I'd go PP....

    Needless to say, I would prefer Favors...

    I like all 3 and wouldn't burn anything if we choose any.... Cousins on the other hand...

  14. #38
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    I just don't know if Patterson is that type of offensive player. Yeah, he's worked on his game and added to it, but I don't see him as the same kind of offensive threat at the next level. I don't ever see him as the type of a guy his team is going to go to when they need a bucket; not in the same way Landry has performed anyways.
    Did you see Landry as that kind of offensive threat at the next level?
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  15. #39
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Did you see Landry as that kind of offensive threat at the next level?
    For every Landry, there are 15 Diogu's. I've never understood when people bring up examples like that when they realize they are the exception, not the rule.

    If we draft Patterson I'm not sure I'll be able to watch another Pacer's game until Bird is gone. I love Bird and outside O'Brien and Hansbrough, have agreed with just about every move he's made, but if he drafts Patterson, I will have lost all faith in a future for this team.

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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    Quote Originally Posted by iPACER View Post
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    I agree with this.

    I don't like the comparison of Monroe to Webber or Howard. He's more athletic than Howard and smarter than CWebb... but then again, isn't everybody?
    Like Howard, Monroe is basically nailed to the floor. Guy has almost no vert to speak of.

    Webber was one of the more gifted offensive PFs to play in the last 20 years or so. And he was a very smart player on that end of the floor. His passing ability along with his overall offensive prowess were probably the most important things during that stretch with the Kings from 99'-2003'. He and Malone were the two best passing PFs of their time. Webber's problem was that he missed about 75% of his career games.

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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    For every Landry, there are 15 Diogu's. I've never understood when people bring up examples like that when they realize they are the exception, not the rule.

    If we draft Patterson I'm not sure I'll be able to watch another Pacer's game until Bird is gone. I love Bird and outside O'Brien and Hansbrough, have agreed with just about every move he's made, but if he drafts Patterson, I will have lost all faith in a future for this team.
    Yeah, Landry is pretty unique. Been awhile since I've seen a guy like that play so effectively. How often is it that the undersized, backup PF is the go to scorer in the 4th quarter (on a decent team)? I don't see that too often.

    All that being said, he really is more effective as a guy off the bench (that's how Houston used him all year long) than as a starter. Also, no way teams would've considered drafting him in the lottery.

    I don't dislike Patrick Patterson, I'm just not that excited about him. He'll be an NBA player. I just don't have any fear of regret if I pass on him, much the same way that I wasn't very worried that Jordan Hill would make anyone regret passing on him (and I think Patterson will be better than that).

  18. #42
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    I think Patterson can come in right now and play. I think he'll have immediate NBA skills in the pick and pop or even the pick and roll with the ability to finish at the rim fairly well. I think Patterson will be able to guard today's NBA PF, much better than basically anyone on the team. Meaning he's versatile enough to guard on the perimeter and not get backed down and completely muscled in the post.

    I used Landry as a comparison, not because he's an exception/acheiving PF example. Moreso, because I think what Landry gives you right now, is basically what Patterson can project to give you at a similar size. I wouldn't project Patterson to be Ike because I think Patterson is much smarter Bball IQ wise, so is Landry.

    I've seen so little of Monroe, but I don't see the Odom comparison, at all. Odom is fluid, smooth with exceptional handles for a big guy, as much on the perimeter as the down low. The little I saw of Monroe he was much more of a closer to the basket guy, but if he's playing in college as the lone big guy on the team, it just may be the system he's in. Also, the wide shoulder girdle to me, says he will be able to put on more muscle as he matures and maybe even more gravitate towards being a big. I am interested to see Georgetown play in the tourney, for sure.

  19. #43
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    I am leaning toward Monroe right now. I am worried Patterson will come into the draft camp and measure 6' 7". I think Patterson is a lot tougher no doubt than Monroe, but Monroe has showed latley that he can do alot of different things form the PF position. He sees the floor really well and is a great passer for a PF. But, do we really want that in a PF? Patterson would be more of the prototypical PF. I also think Patterson has been overshadowed by Wall and Cousins. He might have had a break out year if not for them. His points per game went down from 17 last year to 14 this year.

  20. #44
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    Honestly if the Pacers fall as low to have to pick one of these guys, then it won't matter anyway. JOB isn't going to play them over Murphy or Handsbrough. They'll be warming the bench. How many top 10 picks spend their rookie years riding the pine.

  21. #45
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    From what video I've seen of him, if Roy Hibbert were a PF instead of a C, he'd probably look a lot like Greg Monroe. Very good passer, very skilled, tall/long, but slow and unathletic for his position.

    Not the worst thing in the world to have by any means, but for us I think Patterson makes more sense. Our next PF needs to be more athletic than Roy, better at defense, and better at rebounding.

  22. #46
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Like Howard, Monroe is basically nailed to the floor. Guy has almost no vert to speak of.
    I cannot deny the offensive skill and potential that Monroe has....but unless we get another 1st round pick or use our 2nd round pick on an athletic Big Man that we can use to guard the type of athletic/mobile Big Men that no one on our current roster can guard ( except for Granger )....I would really consider passing on Monroe for this very reason.

    Our lack of athleticsm in the Frontcourt is the one of the reasons why we are forced to play Granger at the PF spot....partly because JO'B likes to play Small Ball due to the athleticsm in the lineup....but also due to utter lack of choice.

    If we actually used McRoberts more....then I wouldn't complain...but since we don't and probably won't.....the mere fact that we had a discussion about playing Granger at the PF spot tells you something.....we are forced to use a SF to guard the type of PFs that no one else can really guard. I want an athletic Big Man that is mobile/athletic/quick/strong enough to guard the type of Players that Hibbert, Murphy and Hansbrough aren't good enough to guard.

    Unless someone tells me that Monroe is an obvious and much better choice than Patterson....where it's not even worth a real discussion....then I'd go with Patterson.
    Last edited by CableKC; 03-18-2010 at 04:42 PM.
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  23. #47
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    Watching Georgetown and Ohio right now, and that's freaking BIG FAT NO!!!!!! to Monroe. Now I've seen both play. The verdict, NEITHER. I was dumb enough to vote based on youtube clips.

  24. #48
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    saw both play today, no Monroe......stupid basketball player, so soft too...

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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    Is there an echo in here.

  26. #50
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    Default Re: Patterson or Monroe

    Patterson seems to be playing well today from the box score. I can't watch the feed, but his box score is not too shabby for a half. I wish I could watch game.
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