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Thread: Yes, Rodney Carney, tanking is quite possible/yahoo.com Pacers are named

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    Default Yes, Rodney Carney, tanking is quite possible/yahoo.com Pacers are named

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/bal...urn=nba,228021

    Yes, Rodney Carney, tanking is quite possible


    It's impossible," Rodney Carney(notes) tells the Philadelphia Inquirer.

    "You get out there, your natural instincts are to try to compete to win the game. Rather than, 'Oh, I'll miss this shot.' No way."

    Tanking is impossible, Rodney Carney tells us. It's true, his version of tanking would be hard for even the most unmotivated of the NBA corps to stomach. He's not wrong, in his own regard.

    But, overall, tanking is quite possible. It happens all the time in varying degrees, and there really, truly, is nothing wrong with it.

    That last bit might be hard to stomach as well, but talk to any fan of any team not going anywhere.

    Talk to a Knick fan. Which batch of transactions would that Knickerbocker backer prefer: The ones that jettisoned able-bodied players for expiring contracts and eventual cap freedom some months and years down the line? Or, the transactions and trades designed solely to sneak New York inside the lower edges of the playoff bracket?

    Signing Jared Jeffries(notes) in 2007 or trading the guy in 2010? Which one do they prefer? Because the latter is an example of tanking.

    Minnesota Timberwolves fans? I'm sure a good chunk of them are less than pleased with where their team currently is at, and some I'm confident still house significant suspicion of David Kahn's rough first year as GM. But they wouldn't hesitate for a second to prefer 2009-10 - with all that young talent, cap space and draft picks on the horizon - to the summers in 2005, 2006 and 2007 -- offseasons that saw Kevin McHale desperatly try to buttress his team back into the first round of the playoffs.

    The Timberwolves started tanking 2009-10 back in June. The 76ers? Probably about a month ago. The Knicks? The minute they hired Donnie Walsh.

    Chicago? Two weeks from now, when they sit Joakim Noah(notes) and Luol Deng(notes) down for good. The Nets? They could never afford to tank because their bench is too terrible to begin with. The Clippers? When they kicked Mike Dunleavy upstairs and set the wheels in motion to dump Marcus Camby(notes).

    Everyone tanks, and those who aren't tanking are ticking off their fans. I'll drive to Chick-fil-A midday and listen to Indianapolis radio guys begging Jim O'Brien to play A.J. Price(notes) more, and for the team to lose Earl Watson(notes). After the shock of hearing that the local radio guys know who A.J. Price is wears off, I then have to note that these radio guys are pleading for their team to tank.

    Everyone tanks, and there's nothing wrong with that. This league is designed around the idea that teams have to develop at their own rate and only truly get great once much of one team's core hits their prime at the same time. The problem with the "tank" ideal in the eyes of the media lies in the way you can anticipate the top two picks in that summer's draft by the time Christmas hits, so it's a cheap column gimmick - "and just see if they can get their hands on John Wall in June."

    You don't get that in baseball, which almost completely turns itself into a glorified Triple-A outfit by mid-September. And you're not going to get that in football, where three third-round picks are often better than one first. It's specific to the NBA and that's ... that's OK.

    Ask any fan. Do they want to see Damien Wilkins(notes) in Minnesota in March, or do they want to see Wayne Ellington(notes)? Not because they, eventually, want to see John Wall, but because they want to see what they have in Ellington, even if it isn't much. NBA fans know what's up, and they don't need some aggrieved-on-their-behalf national talking head shouting "will someone think of the sanctity of competition?" every spring.

    Springs that usually don't spring tanking teams toward John Wall, by the way. I've brought this up before, but the two most recent and most "egregious" examples of tanking saw the Bucks and Celtics pack it in down the stretch of 2006-07 in order to grab Greg Oden(notes) or Kevin Durant(notes). The two teams finished with the worst and second-worst records in the NBA, which meant that the worst they could do in the draft lottery was fall to fifth and sixth in the draft order.


    And that's exactly where they ended up. All that tanking, fifth and sixth in the draft. Because the lottery works. You tank for lottery balls at your own peril. You'd be stupid to lose games on purpose.

    You'd be finally getting it right if you decide to give up on your sham of a season and start to develop what's already there.

    So, yes, Rodney Carney. Teams do tank. They don't lose games on purpose, but when you're bringing Jodie Meeks(notes) in as your first player off the bench instead of Thaddeus Young(notes), the writing's on the wall.

    And as we get into full-on tanking season, I implore you people, have some fun with it. Have a sense of humor and a sense of the long term. This is part of what makes this league actually kind of interesting.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 03-16-2010 at 12:18 AM.

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    Default Re: Yes, Rodney Carney, tanking is quite possible/yahoo.com Pacers are named

    I don't think begging for AJ Price to get time at the point is an example of tanking. I think he is (or would be, if we'd been playing him all year) the best PG on the roster.
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    Default Re: Yes, Rodney Carney, tanking is quite possible/yahoo.com Pacers are named

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I don't think begging for AJ Price to get time at the point is an example of tanking. I think he is (or would be, if we'd been playing him all year) the best PG on the roster.
    It's a name thing, a lot of people don't know him. They know he was a late second round pick.

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    Default Re: Yes, Rodney Carney, tanking is quite possible/yahoo.com Pacers are named

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I don't think begging for AJ Price to get time at the point is an example of tanking. I think he is (or would be, if we'd been playing him all year) the best PG on the roster.
    TJ Ford n Earl Watson are way better right now. If you b leave in giving him minutes 2 prospects then fine. AJ lacks the speed of Ford and the b Ball IQ of Watson. It is going 2 be interesting who the organization drafts with their two second round picks I am hoping for Vazquez early and Tyler Smith Late. I do not think AJ is a starting PG on a playoff team. Neither is Vazquez but it will be interesting 2 c how things pan out. Why not play AJ for the rest of the season. the 5th thru 9th pick is up 4 grabs and we need to see what we have in AJ and his future.

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    Default Re: Yes, Rodney Carney, tanking is quite possible/yahoo.com Pacers are named

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    TJ Ford n Earl Watson are way better right now. If you b leave in giving him minutes 2 prospects then fine. AJ lacks the speed of Ford and the b Ball IQ of Watson. It is going 2 be interesting who the organization drafts with their two second round picks I am hoping for Vazquez early and Tyler Smith Late. I do not think AJ is a starting PG on a playoff team. Neither is Vazquez but it will be interesting 2 c how things pan out. Why not play AJ for the rest of the season. the 5th thru 9th pick is up 4 grabs and we need to see what we have in AJ and his future.
    id actually disagree with this. i think aj price is the best pg on this team right now. he dictates the offense with a lot of fluidity, he has great synergy with rush and hibbert, his shot is 758493x better than watsons ugly jumpshot and hes far more consistent than ford.

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    Default Re: Yes, Rodney Carney, tanking is quite possible/yahoo.com Pacers are named

    Tell me if I am wrong.. but is this writer insinuating the Knicks are tanking? How terrible does that make this article? The Knicks are tanking... so they can give Utah an awesome pick... right.

    And he clearly does not understand the vibe around the Pacer's fans or the radio guys. People want AJ to play because he is better than our other PGs and they want to see him on the court.

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    Default Re: Yes, Rodney Carney, tanking is quite possible/yahoo.com Pacers are named

    Kelly dwyer is a terrible writer (mechanics, rhetoric etc) in general. this article has no focus. somehow at the end of it we get that "playing the young kids" is tanking, but it's ok because fans want to see "what they have".

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    Default Re: Yes, Rodney Carney, tanking is quite possible/yahoo.com Pacers are named

    Certainly glad I don't read too much of this writer's stuff! The Knicks were tanking the minute they hired Donnie Walsh? What about the previous administration? And his driving to Chick Fil A line was absolute rubbish considering he never mentioned where the lack of direction, coaching and playing the vets is taking these Pacers.
    There is no doubt teams do/might tank, but the NBA addressed that with the lottery thing.

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    Default Re: Yes, Rodney Carney, tanking is quite possible/yahoo.com Pacers are named

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    TJ Ford n Earl Watson are way better right now. If you b leave in giving him minutes 2 prospects then fine. AJ lacks the speed of Ford and the b Ball IQ of Watson.
    Debatable, but my point is that part of the reason AJ's somewhat undeveloped is that he hasn't gotten minutes this year. I think he's possibly the best PG on the roster, but it would have been a no-brainer if he'd gotten 15-20 minutes all year to adjust to the NBA.

    Ford's foot speed is a nice weapon but it doesn't make him a better PG. Watson's BBIQ is fine, but it doesn't really seem to help him run the team better than AJ.

    Our second-round draft pick is the best quarterback we have.
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    Default Re: Yes, Rodney Carney, tanking is quite possible/yahoo.com Pacers are named

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Debatable, but my point is that part of the reason AJ's somewhat undeveloped is that he hasn't gotten minutes this year. I think he's possibly the best PG on the roster, but it would have been a no-brainer if he'd gotten 15-20 minutes all year to adjust to the NBA.

    Ford's foot speed is a nice weapon but it doesn't make him a better PG. Watson's BBIQ is fine, but it doesn't really seem to help him run the team better than AJ.

    Our second-round draft pick is the best quarterback we have.
    I agree.

    I think part of the hesitation to say that is where he went in the draft. But I've repeated, before his injury he was a mid first round draft pick. But in the last draft, AJ was one of the older guards with a previous knee injury and a rumored brain problem. It was still weird though, they way the drafting worked out. Flynn Jumped to high first round because of the 6OT game, but Price had an equally impressive game (and outplayed Flynn the previous two times they played each other) and he was one of the most impressive players in the NCAA tournament..and he carried his team to the FF. But I'm digressing..as I said, the amount of point guards..his age..and his injury concerns REALLY hurt him. (In fact, he was hurt at some point during some of the draft camps)

    But I also don't think saying that AJ is the best point guard (which is different then Player playing the point position...although that still might be him, but certainly an argument could be made for Ford there.) then Ford or Earl is really that great of a compliment to AJ. They really aren't good point guards.

    You really just have to look at the way the team's play...and the win/loss record..when Price is in the rotation, vs one of the other two. AJ's only gotten about 30 games this year..and how often has he come in the game down double digits only to ignite (or personally go on) a run to put the Pacers back in the game? Quite a bit..

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    Default Re: Yes, Rodney Carney, tanking is quite possible/yahoo.com Pacers are named

    [QUOTE=Jonathan;974017]TJ Ford n Earl Watson are way better right now. If you b leave in giving him minutes 2 prospects then fine. AJ lacks the speed of Ford and the b Ball IQ of Watson

    i agree with jonathan. say what you want about Ford, but he is proven. Watson has lasted like 10 years in the league, which is impressive. Price is only a prospect right now, and only a biased Pacer fan/Price fanboy, would say that he is by far the best PG.

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