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Thread: An interesting read

  1. #1
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    Default An interesting read

    http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsi...r_or_wall.html

    (Mike Wells)
    MILWAUKEE - Everybody knows John Wall and Evan Turner will be the first two players taken in the June draft.

    Let's just say the Pacers get lucky and land the first pick.

    I'm sure you guys would love to have both players on the roster because the Pacers could use their help.

    But who would you take if you had the first pick?

    I'd go with Turner and then see if New Orleans would be willing to part ways with point guard Darren Collison.

    The Pacers have shown they're willing to trade Brandon Rush, so offer him and a future draft pick for Collison, who Earl Watson said would do a good job filling in for Chris Paul as soon as he got injured.

    I thought Watson was just pumping Collison up because he also went to UCLA. Turns out he was right about him.

    Who would you take if you were Larry Bird and had the No. 1 pick?

    *******************
    The Pacers didn't know if Jim O'Brien would coach against the Bucks.

    O'Brien remained in Boston when the team flew to Milwaukee on Saturday because he was sick.

    O'Brien flew to Milwaukee early Sunday morning to make sure he was there in time for the noon tip off.

  2. #2
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: An interesting read

    How is what Mike Well's would do an interesting read?

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    Default Re: An interesting read

    not sure why you would draft turner, and then trade for Collison. not like turner can shoot

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    Default Re: An interesting read

    I'd guess Collison is of more value to NO than he could be had in a trade. CP3 is out with injury, has a huge contract, I'd guess. Their team is structured around the PG, imo. I'd say all of this speculation about Collison is not very doable. I'd guess conversely the speculation about CP3 might actualy have merit, instead. It's basically a cost thing. Just trying to crawl in the head of what NO might be thinking, I could be completely wrong.

    It comes down to this, to me.

    How hurt is CP3?
    How good is Collison, really?
    How possible is it that even with CP3, NO is a contender with a contenders payroll? In other words, is NO better with CP3 and Collison, just CP3, just Collison or does none of it even make them a player in the West?

  6. #5
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    Default Re: An interesting read

    i thought cp3 was coming back in a week
    i thought i saw something on realgm about it

  7. #6
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    Default Re: An interesting read

    Quote Originally Posted by HanSolo View Post
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    i thought cp3 was coming back in a week
    i thought i saw something on realgm about it
    I didn't see that, but the other questions are still valid, to me.

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    Default Re: An interesting read

    I think we'd be making a TERRIBLE mistake if we picked Turner over Wall with the # 1 pick...
    Turner looks great no doubt and I could see him turning into a Brandon Roy type of player in the NBA but he's 21 and a Junior. Wall is 19 and a Freshman. He's already looking fantastic and he's got a ton of room to grow. He has all the tools to be the top PG in the league for years to come.
    Turner as a Freshman at OSU averaged 8pts/4rebs/3assts in close to 30 minutes playing time.
    Wall this year as a freshman averages 17pts/4rebs/6assts in 35 minutes while leading a top 3 team in the country.

    Both players are the complete package in my opinion but Wall is one of those rare pure talent guys that comes around every 5 to 10 year plus he's a PURE PG which this team needs more than anything. Turner is more of a combo guard in my opinion.
    If we lucked our way to a top 2 pick I would be ecstatic. If we do have the choice between the 2 of them I would pick Wall and not think about it twice.
    Having watched him (Wall) play a TON this year he has just kept getting better and better. What impresses me the most about him is that when the other team is making a run he ALWAYS seems to be the one player making the critical play of the game. Even if he's struggling on offense he'll make a play on defense. I know Turner has made winning plays all year for OSU but he wasn't making those plays as a Freshman...
    What really matters is what Larry would do... Does he stay with his philosophy of the last couple years and pick the guy who's played college ball for an extended period of time (Turner) or does he decide that Wall is the type of talent that comes around very rarely and he has to take him even if he's only had one year in college...

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    Default Re: An interesting read

    I think Wall will be a much much better pro than college player. Meaning the pro game is much more geared towards showing his abilities. I really like Turner's will. This sounds funny, but he seems like a guy who is a natural leader and fearless to take the last shot or make a play defensively or be the man. I always think this is an innate thing unique to the individual. I don't know if Wall does or does not have this.

    I guess what I'm saying is I think Wall has the more upside and could be a superstar and that Turner could be a guy who leads your team and makes others around him better through his leadership. Turner is 6'7" and will only get better at the one knock against him, which is shooting and it's not like he sucks now. Wall has the physical tools to maybe be one of the best players in the league, so I think you're okay not matter who you get.

    The thing is I have to keep remembering that although there is a fair chance to move up to the top 3, there is also a fair chance to move down as far as 6. So, I hope this is a decision they have to make.

  10. #9

    Default Re: An interesting read

    wells stole my walls vs turner poll thread...that ******* haha
    JOB is a silly man

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    Default Re: An interesting read

    Quote Originally Posted by IUfan4life View Post
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    not sure why you would draft turner, and then trade for Collison. not like turner can shoot
    I think the idea was to draft turner and keep him and try to pry away Collison with one of the expirings and a guy like Brandon Rush.

  12. #11

    Default Re: An interesting read

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I think the idea was to draft turner and keep him and try to pry away Collison with one of the expirings and a guy like Brandon Rush.
    Right, I understand that, but I just do not think that it makes sense for the Pacers.

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    Default Re: An interesting read

    I still think we're better off going after Harris from NJ
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    Default Re: An interesting read

    If we get a #1 or #2, I would like to see us take whichever player has the least amount of "potentially a project player" type quality to him. Basically, not another Darko :-P
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    Default Re: An interesting read

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    How hurt is CP3?
    I don't know, but I don't think it's a serious injury.

    How good is Collison, really?
    He's a solid starter, but with so much talent at the PG position, he very probably will never sniff an All-Star game or be a top-10 player at his position. From his draft alone:

    Top Tier
    1. Evans
    2. Rubio
    3. Jennings
    3. Curry

    Second tier
    5. Beaubois

    Third tier
    6. Collison
    6. Holiday

    Fourth tier
    9.Lawson
    10.Teague

    11.Maynor
    12. Douglas
    13. Flynn

    Then you have already in the league the following PGs who are 25 years old or less:
    Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Rajon Rondo. I think all of them are clearly better than Collison. I think OJ Mayo natural and best position is PG and if he plays there he'll be better than Collison.

    Then you have guys like Raymond Felton who have similar value.

    Plus one could add young players like Augustin, Bayless or Conley who have potential to be better than Collison (a player with a very limited potential due to his lack of elite physical and athletic traits + age).

    And on the top of all that, you still have players who will be around for a few years like Tony Parker (better than Collison) and Calderon (whom Collison will probably surpass but it's not a given).

    Now, add John Wall and the immediate future John Walls and it's very arguable that Collison will never be an above-average PG in the NBA.

    How possible is it that even with CP3, NO is a contender with a contenders payroll?
    New Orleans isnt' a contender one way or the other. With Paul they're a playoff team with an outside chance of making the 2nd round and a little one of making the Conference Finals. With Collison they're a lottery team and not a particularly good one.

    In other words, is NO better with CP3 and Collison, just CP3, just Collison or does none of it even make them a player in the West?
    It's better with Paul+Collison, but they'll probably be better with whatever Collison can bring them.

    With the right personnel around Paul, of course they're a contender. So far, they haven't succeeded in putting a team around him. They tried to do it too fast, that was their fatal mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I'd guess Collison is of more value to NO than he could be had in a trade. CP3 is out with injury, has a huge contract, I'd guess. Their team is structured around the PG, imo. I'd say all of this speculation about Collison is not very doable. I'd guess conversely the speculation about CP3 might actualy have merit, instead. It's basically a cost thing. Just trying to crawl in the head of what NO might be thinking, I could be completely wrong.
    I think New Orleans is only willing to trade, no, to enter in conversations about trading Paul if the other side is willing to offer another All-NBA player of the same age bracket - so LeBron James, Dwight Howard, Kevin Durant, Deron Williams, maybe Brandon Roy. I think that's all.

    The cost isn't about Chris Paul. The problem with their payroll is the contracts of Okafor, Peja and Posey, not Paul's one. I'm pretty sure that if they traded Chris Paul their financial situation would nose-dive.

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    Default Re: An interesting read

    The only way that I would see them moving Collison would be as "sweetner" to some Team that is under the 2010-2011 Salary Cap relief to get back a Trade Exception ( think the Jazz dumping Harpring's Salary to get under the LT at the cost of Maynor ).
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: An interesting read

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    The only way that I would see them moving Collison would be as "sweetner" to some Team that is under the 2010-2011 Salary Cap relief to get back a Trade Exception ( think the Jazz dumping Harpring's Salary to get under the LT at the cost of Maynor ).
    Why wouldn't an expiring Murphy or Dunleavy contract work? We take back Okafor and Collison. Its a salary dump move for NO but it allows them to keep West.

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    Default Re: An interesting read

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    How is what Mike Well's would do an interesting read?
    It's interesting because he mentioned that we're interested in Collison that we'd be willing to trade Brandon and our pick for him.

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    Default Re: An interesting read

    The Pacers didn't know if Jim O'Brien would coach against the Bucks.

    O'Brien remained in Boston when the team flew to Milwaukee on Saturday because he was sick.

    O'Brien flew to Milwaukee early Sunday morning to make sure he was there in time for the noon tip off.

    The players were hopeful that their tactic of mixing industrial strength laxatives into O'Brien's meal would work. Since their try came in a failing effort, O'Brien immediately called it "irrelevant".
    Fixed

  21. #19
    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
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    Default Re: An interesting read

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    It's interesting because he mentioned that we're interested in Collison that we'd be willing to trade Brandon and our pick for him.
    I wear glasses, but I never saw anything in that article that said the Pacers were interested in Collison, or that they would be willing to trade Rush and a pick for him?

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    Default Re: An interesting read

    Quote Originally Posted by pwee31 View Post
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    I wear glasses, but I never saw anything in that article that said the Pacers were interested in Collison, or that they would be willing to trade Rush and a pick for him?
    .
    The Pacers have shown they're willing to trade Brandon Rush, so offer him and a future draft pick for Collison, who Earl Watson said would do a good job filling in for Chris Paul as soon as he got injured.

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    Default Re: An interesting read

    It just shows we were willing to trade Rush, doesn't say anything about whether the Pacers FO is interested in Collison, just that Wells is.
    BillS

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    Default Re: An interesting read

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    .
    I still don't see where it says we're interested in Collison OR that we're willing to trade Rush and a pick for Collison?

    No where in that opinionated article does it say the Indiana Pacers are interested in Darren Collison, nor does it say the Indiana Pacers are willing to trade Brandon Rush and a draft pick for Darren Collison

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    Default Re: An interesting read

    I read the article more carefully and I see what he means. I apologize.

    I'd rather draft than trade our pick and Rush for Collison.

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