View Poll Results: Who would you want the Pacers to draft out of these two?

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  • Derrick Favors

    62 79.49%
  • DeMarcus Cousins

    16 20.51%
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Thread: Favors or Cousins?

  1. #26
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sobchak View Post
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    From watching them both pretty extensively I'm not so sure that Favors is that far off of a prospect from Cousins based on basketball only, attitude issues aside...Plus I think Favors is a much more explosive athlete. I guess its what you want -- a bigger, more plodding bruiser 4/5 type or a pure 4 with explosive athleticism. From a pure basketball standpoint, I don't think we could go wrong with either, but because of Cousins' attitude I'm goin with Favors...
    Same here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    My biggest fear is they see Favors as too much of project and Cousins too much of a risk and pick off the reservation.
    That's what I'm REALLY afraid of aswell. We finally get a very high draftpick and then we trade down or pick some senior player who you could get at pick 8-10 aswell, but won't have the longterm impact a player like Favours COULD have.
    Last edited by Mourning; 03-15-2010 at 11:57 AM.
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  2. #27
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    I wouldn't mind either, but I would prefer Favors and not because of Cousins and his baggage. Both are good defenders, but I think Favors would be able to fit into our system and work well in the PF rotation with Tyler either starting or backing him up.

    Favors is similar to Tyler more because he can work the post well and keep players from entering the post and he's athletic.

    Also if Favors is gone by our selection and Cousins is still left, I would take him believing the top 3 are gone.
    Last edited by Trophy; 03-15-2010 at 11:58 AM.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    There is nothing wrong with putting a little whiskey in your milk.
    Exactly, I think thats been part of the problem and the Black and White (no pun intended) idea that you have to have great guys with not as much talken or you don't care at all what kind of guys you have as long as there very talented.

    Maybe a middle ground is okay. Get good pros and good players. Hopefully a guy doesn't have to be a preacher or felon, maybe they can be inbetween.

    What doesn't work is only getting guys because they are good guys and only getting guys because they have talent with baggage.

    Looking back over the last 4 years this has been the biggest downfall in reconstructing the team, imho. It's time to be a little smarter about it, cuz they've screwed the pooch enough to almost be down to no room for error.

    Note to Bird, everything isn't an absolute, don't try and make it that way.

    I'll sit back down now, but man they need to get this draft close to perfect.

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  5. #29
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    I wouldn't mind either, but I would prefer Favors and not because of Cousins and his baggage. Both are good defenders, but I think Favors would be able to fit into our system and work well in the PF rotation with Tyler either starting or backing him up.

    Favors is similar to Tyler more because he can work the post well and keep players from entering the post and he's athletic.

    Also if Favors is gone by our selection and Cousins is still left, I would take him believing the top 3 are gone.
    The system in the next year and a half will be completely changed based on who you have by then, which should be almost completely different than what we see right now.

    The system in 2 years should be tailored to the players they have then, so I'd almost give no consideration to system in this year's coming draft.

    I would absolutely without hesitation take the best talent available regardless of position, system, or even duplicate skillset.

    If a guy is just like Roy or just like Danny, but he's clearly the best available, I'd take him. Just my opinion, but I think they are that far away that they need to approach it like this.

    You can sort it out later, imho.

  6. #30
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Between the two, I see flaws in both that give me pause. Favors is pretty freakin' raw from what I understand, but this team isn't doing anything for say...another 3 years. So, with the "right coaching" he may be up to snuff by time we're ready to do something.

    Watching Cousins play on Saturday against Tennessee was like watching a guy that you know wanted to explode and doing his absolute best trying not to snap. He was often being "baited" into doing something stupid, but resisted. This is scary because he looked on the razors edge of just barely holding his composure together. All that aside, I see Cousins as more of a center and not the athletic freak that I would like to see as our PF. As others have said, if you take Cousins.... You might as well send Roy packing.

    I'd take Favors just because he'd most likely be the better fit with our current center.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    If you want a bad boy on this team, make sure he's not one of your core, or else you're begging for something to go wrong that you can't easily fix. Get "bad boy" role players if you want them
    I'm not speaking of Cousins or a "bad boy" specifically, but we do need a player with some swagger and fire in a leadership position on the team. You can have great locker room guys be role players, but we need some aggressiveness out of the core.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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  8. #31
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    The system in the next year and a half will be completely changed based on who you have by then, which should be almost completely different than what we see right now.

    The system in 2 years should be tailored to the players they have then, so I'd almost give no consideration to system in this year's coming draft.

    I would absolutely without hesitation take the best talent available regardless of position, system, or even duplicate skillset.

    If a guy is just like Roy or just like Danny, but he's clearly the best available, I'd take him. Just my opinion, but I think they are that far away that they need to approach it like this.

    You can sort it out later, imho.
    I agree, I'm not talking about what JOB tries to run, but like you said, I was talking about the type of players specifically the PF position and Tyler.

    I think we run a pretty free flowing system because of the rebuilding and we're still looking out the potentional future, core players.

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  10. #32
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    You'd have to go with Favors cause he has more athleticism and would naturally be a great fit next to Hibbert. This isn't necessarily saying who's the better player, but who is the better fit in a Pacers uniform.

    I still think that Turner would like best in a Pacers uni. I think as long as the Pacers have a top 5 pick, they are going to get a high quality player. Just have to wait and see how thing play out. Lots of home games coming up and you always run the risk of a late winning streak like last year. Don't get your hopes too high people.
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  11. #33
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    I'd take Favors just because he'd most likely be the better fit with our current center.
    If we take Favors, I think a starting lineup of Roy/Favors would be good because he's similar to Roy as far as playing the post well.

    I wouldn't mind a Roy/Tyler rotation either, but Tyler does the things Roy already does like staying in or near the post and shoot FGs.

  12. #34
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed
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    My biggest fear is they see Favors as too much of project and Cousins too much of a risk and pick off the reservation.
    How much of a reach is Greg Ostertag Cole Aldrich at the 3 or 4 spot? Is that far enough "off the reservation"?

    That is my fear, also.
    ...Still "flying casual"
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  14. #35
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Cole is by far my biggest fear for the draft.

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  16. #36
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    I think as long as the Pacers have a top 5 pick, they are going to get a high quality player. Just have to wait and see how thing play out. .
    That's what I can't wait to find out from our college players/draft experts on here, how deep is this draft. It seems at this moment it is those 4 - Wall/Turner then Favors/Cousins, but whats the drop off after that? Who is in the next group and how far are they off of the previous group?

    Seth, I hope you and others group these guys up as we get closer to the actual draft and knowing where the Pacers will sit.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Don't get your hopes too high people.
    You are absolutely right. I view the Pacers as the poster child of Murphy's Law.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    There is nothing wrong with putting a little whiskey in your milk.
    True, but there is something wrong with putting a little gunpowder in there.

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  20. #39

    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Like what? Why does the toughest player have to be a role player? I honestly think that Cousins' attitude "problems" aren't really a problem. Right now he's in a system that breeds messed up attitudes. That doesn't mean he won't humble somewhat in the NBA.

    Look, this team needs some color, and I don't mean that in a derogatory way. This team has been built around "nice guys" recently and that hasn't won us many games. Cousins has the capacity to fire the team up, and he's what we need as a PF. A bruiser.
    Swagger and attitude are nice, but speed, quickness and athleticism win more games.

    Maybe Cousins is the right choice (in terms of current ability, he's certainly the more skilled player and there's a good chance he'll always be the more talented offensive player) but what you need as a PF as currently constructed is a player like Favors, not one like Cousins. That shouldn't stop you from picking Cousins if he's a much better player, but being a better fit isn't a good argument to pick him.

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  22. #40

    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    but man they need to get this draft close to perfect.

    This is the most important draft the Pacers have had in years, and Bird can't afford to make the wrong decision. This is a make or break draft based on drafting position, and the best has to come out of this draft pick.

    I'll qualify that by saying if it's a top 4-5 pick. IF for some reason the Pacers end with a 8-12 pick, the importance isn't as great, but they still need to get the best player available no matter the position.

  23. #41
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    If they drop to 8-12, you really hope that they pick up an important piece along with it and I mean another #1 or astarter of need, not another replaceable role player.

  24. #42

    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Cole is by far my biggest fear for the draft.

    Believe, me you aren't alone!

  25. #43
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    I know this is a Favors or Cousins discussion thread but couldn't the Pacers reach for a guy like Hassan Whiteside?

    Just because they already have a 7-2 Center doesn't mean they can't (or shouldn't) draft another one. I haven't watched him play at all but a guy that averages 13 points, 9.5 rebounds, and 5.4 blocks per game in only 27 minutes is a bit of an eye-opener.


    Sticking to the subject of this thread, I can't say I'm excited about Cousins or Favors (really don't know anything about Favors) based on the little I've seen and read about them. Cousins takes up a lot of space and reminds me a little of Nene, which is a good thing. Despite the rumors of his attitude and work ethic (does anyone really have any evidence that he's not a hard worker?) I think he'll be the better NBA player the guy the Pacers should draft.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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  26. #44
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Just a few particulars I noticed when comparing Favors vs. Cousins. Favors is 6-9 - 215lbs. Thats smaller than Danny Granger. Sorry I don't hold out much hope of him becoming a dominant low post threat if he can easily be pushed off the block. I know guys are going to get bigger over time, but how much bigger is the question, its hard to add muscle mass.

    Cousins is 6-11 - 250LBS. That isn't flabby, you look at him and he has the NBA body for a dominate big man. Dude is strong and given a good training camp and summer league he'll be even stronger in this rookie year and maintain that weight. I'd take him on physicality alone if thats all that mattered.

    I don't care about his attitude, that's something the team is supposed to whip into shape early on. I like that he has a nasty streak in him. You want that in a big man.

    If we are there at #3 then i'd pick him. I'd take Favors other wise, and if we are down #5. I'd take Monroe.

  27. #45

    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    If they drop to 8-12, you really hope that they pick up an important piece along with it and I mean another #1 or astarter of need, not another replaceable role player.

    Bird has drafted enough role players, and needs to get a quality starter player out of this draft by either drafting one or trading for one.

    I like both Patterson and Monroe as bigs who I feel will be lottery picks. Patterson just sorta sneaks up on you b4 you realize what his #'s are in a game. Monroe has impressed me by being able to put the ball on the floor and drive to the basket. I didn't realize he had the capability until watching him over the weekend. I like a PF being able to do that.

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  29. #46
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Monroe has a nice over his shoulder post move, too, I'm not sure how he translate to the NBA. He looks the part to me. Patterson I think is a safe pick and probably doesn't get the sizzle he should cuz he's playing with Wall and Cousins and he's been draft vetted before. I like both players, quite a bit. I thought Patterson was the way for the Pacers to go, last year.

    I don't know if I'm imaging this or what, but didn't the NBA/NCAA change when you had to declare for the draft or decide not to. Didn't they move it way up? The reason I ask is if it's in May instead of June then you have a much better picture of who will truely be available to draft, much earlier.

    I think Harangody was at all of the draft camps last year, but I think the rule change makes them pull their name out much sooner now? Am I right on this?
    Last edited by Speed; 03-15-2010 at 01:01 PM.

  30. #47

    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    In this day and age you need a PF who can shoot from outside atleast 10 feet so I say Favors. Cousin's game is that of a Center not a PF.

  31. #48
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Just a few particulars I noticed when comparing Favors vs. Cousins. Favors is 6-9 - 215lbs.

    Cousins is 6-11 - 250LBS.
    Those are old (as in highschool junior-senior) measurements. Favors is currently listed at 6-9 (some list him at 6-10) 246 lbs while Cousins is listed currently at 6-11 280
    Last edited by Merz; 03-15-2010 at 01:27 PM.

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  33. #49
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    [QUOTE=Merz;973705]
    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Just a few particulars I noticed when comparing Favors vs. Cousins. Favors is 6-9 - 215lbs.

    Cousins is 6-11 - 250LBS. QUOTE]

    Those are old (as in highschool junior-senior) measurements. Favors is currently listed at 6-9 (some list him at 6-10) 246 lbs while Cousins is listed currently at 6-11 280
    If he is a legit 6-10 240, then I'd take him I guess. I just seen so many Young PF's coming out of the draft in recent years who are light weights and they hardly ever put on the muscle mass needed to play the position in the NBA.

  34. #50
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    This team needs a "bad guy". Not necessarily a player who will frequent the clubs, but someone with that "me against the world" mentality. Someone who can bust his way through the lane with little regard.

    Swagger, Cousins has that. I don't want a team full of "nice guys". We need attitude.
    I got to disagree with you on this one Dukie. I think the attitude we need on this team is the type of attitude a player would give to opposing players (kind of how Ben Wallace was). But the kind of attitude that Cousins brings is direct attitude to his coaches and players; thats not what we want on this team.

    I wouldnt mind a player that has attitude towards opposing players, but count me out if the players is bringing attitude towards his own coaches/players
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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