Last edited by Mourning; 03-15-2010 at 11:57 AM.
2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws
2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws
2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws
I wouldn't mind either, but I would prefer Favors and not because of Cousins and his baggage. Both are good defenders, but I think Favors would be able to fit into our system and work well in the PF rotation with Tyler either starting or backing him up.
Favors is similar to Tyler more because he can work the post well and keep players from entering the post and he's athletic.
Also if Favors is gone by our selection and Cousins is still left, I would take him believing the top 3 are gone.
Last edited by Trophy; 03-15-2010 at 11:58 AM.
Exactly, I think thats been part of the problem and the Black and White (no pun intended) idea that you have to have great guys with not as much talken or you don't care at all what kind of guys you have as long as there very talented.
Maybe a middle ground is okay. Get good pros and good players. Hopefully a guy doesn't have to be a preacher or felon, maybe they can be inbetween.
What doesn't work is only getting guys because they are good guys and only getting guys because they have talent with baggage.
Looking back over the last 4 years this has been the biggest downfall in reconstructing the team, imho. It's time to be a little smarter about it, cuz they've screwed the pooch enough to almost be down to no room for error.
Note to Bird, everything isn't an absolute, don't try and make it that way.
I'll sit back down now, but man they need to get this draft close to perfect.
The system in 2 years should be tailored to the players they have then, so I'd almost give no consideration to system in this year's coming draft.
I would absolutely without hesitation take the best talent available regardless of position, system, or even duplicate skillset.
If a guy is just like Roy or just like Danny, but he's clearly the best available, I'd take him. Just my opinion, but I think they are that far away that they need to approach it like this.
You can sort it out later, imho.
Between the two, I see flaws in both that give me pause. Favors is pretty freakin' raw from what I understand, but this team isn't doing anything for say...another 3 years. So, with the "right coaching" he may be up to snuff by time we're ready to do something.
Watching Cousins play on Saturday against Tennessee was like watching a guy that you know wanted to explode and doing his absolute best trying not to snap. He was often being "baited" into doing something stupid, but resisted. This is scary because he looked on the razors edge of just barely holding his composure together. All that aside, I see Cousins as more of a center and not the athletic freak that I would like to see as our PF. As others have said, if you take Cousins.... You might as well send Roy packing.
I'd take Favors just because he'd most likely be the better fit with our current center.
...Still "flying casual"
I think we run a pretty free flowing system because of the rebuilding and we're still looking out the potentional future, core players.
You'd have to go with Favors cause he has more athleticism and would naturally be a great fit next to Hibbert. This isn't necessarily saying who's the better player, but who is the better fit in a Pacers uniform.
I still think that Turner would like best in a Pacers uni. I think as long as the Pacers have a top 5 pick, they are going to get a high quality player. Just have to wait and see how thing play out. Lots of home games coming up and you always run the risk of a late winning streak like last year. Don't get your hopes too high people.
3 scenarios for the draft, starting with my favorite first:
1. Pacers trade up for Justice Winslow
2. Take WCS or Stanley Johnson (this is the theory of a player falling); Make trades (Hibbert/West/others) for additional picks - George Lucas and Rakeem Christmas are players I'd love to have with a late first/early 2nd round
3. Trey Lyles
I'm sure my opinion will change many times before the draft though.
If we take Favors, I think a starting lineup of Roy/Favors would be good because he's similar to Roy as far as playing the post well.
I wouldn't mind a Roy/Tyler rotation either, but Tyler does the things Roy already does like staying in or near the post and shoot FGs.
Cole is by far my biggest fear for the draft.
Seth, I hope you and others group these guys up as we get closer to the actual draft and knowing where the Pacers will sit.
Swagger and attitude are nice, but speed, quickness and athleticism win more games.
Maybe Cousins is the right choice (in terms of current ability, he's certainly the more skilled player and there's a good chance he'll always be the more talented offensive player) but what you need as a PF as currently constructed is a player like Favors, not one like Cousins. That shouldn't stop you from picking Cousins if he's a much better player, but being a better fit isn't a good argument to pick him.
This is the most important draft the Pacers have had in years, and Bird can't afford to make the wrong decision. This is a make or break draft based on drafting position, and the best has to come out of this draft pick.
I'll qualify that by saying if it's a top 4-5 pick. IF for some reason the Pacers end with a 8-12 pick, the importance isn't as great, but they still need to get the best player available no matter the position.
If they drop to 8-12, you really hope that they pick up an important piece along with it and I mean another #1 or astarter of need, not another replaceable role player.
I know this is a Favors or Cousins discussion thread but couldn't the Pacers reach for a guy like Hassan Whiteside?
Just because they already have a 7-2 Center doesn't mean they can't (or shouldn't) draft another one. I haven't watched him play at all but a guy that averages 13 points, 9.5 rebounds, and 5.4 blocks per game in only 27 minutes is a bit of an eye-opener.
Sticking to the subject of this thread, I can't say I'm excited about Cousins or Favors (really don't know anything about Favors) based on the little I've seen and read about them. Cousins takes up a lot of space and reminds me a little of Nene, which is a good thing. Despite the rumors of his attitude and work ethic (does anyone really have any evidence that he's not a hard worker?) I think he'll be the better NBA player the guy the Pacers should draft.
Just a few particulars I noticed when comparing Favors vs. Cousins. Favors is 6-9 - 215lbs. Thats smaller than Danny Granger. Sorry I don't hold out much hope of him becoming a dominant low post threat if he can easily be pushed off the block. I know guys are going to get bigger over time, but how much bigger is the question, its hard to add muscle mass.
Cousins is 6-11 - 250LBS. That isn't flabby, you look at him and he has the NBA body for a dominate big man. Dude is strong and given a good training camp and summer league he'll be even stronger in this rookie year and maintain that weight. I'd take him on physicality alone if thats all that mattered.
I don't care about his attitude, that's something the team is supposed to whip into shape early on. I like that he has a nasty streak in him. You want that in a big man.
If we are there at #3 then i'd pick him. I'd take Favors other wise, and if we are down #5. I'd take Monroe.
Bird has drafted enough role players, and needs to get a quality starter player out of this draft by either drafting one or trading for one.
I like both Patterson and Monroe as bigs who I feel will be lottery picks. Patterson just sorta sneaks up on you b4 you realize what his #'s are in a game. Monroe has impressed me by being able to put the ball on the floor and drive to the basket. I didn't realize he had the capability until watching him over the weekend. I like a PF being able to do that.
Monroe has a nice over his shoulder post move, too, I'm not sure how he translate to the NBA. He looks the part to me. Patterson I think is a safe pick and probably doesn't get the sizzle he should cuz he's playing with Wall and Cousins and he's been draft vetted before. I like both players, quite a bit. I thought Patterson was the way for the Pacers to go, last year.
I don't know if I'm imaging this or what, but didn't the NBA/NCAA change when you had to declare for the draft or decide not to. Didn't they move it way up? The reason I ask is if it's in May instead of June then you have a much better picture of who will truely be available to draft, much earlier.
I think Harangody was at all of the draft camps last year, but I think the rule change makes them pull their name out much sooner now? Am I right on this?
Last edited by Speed; 03-15-2010 at 01:01 PM.
In this day and age you need a PF who can shoot from outside atleast 10 feet so I say Favors. Cousin's game is that of a Center not a PF.
Last edited by Merz; 03-15-2010 at 01:27 PM.
I got to disagree with you on this one Dukie. I think the attitude we need on this team is the type of attitude a player would give to opposing players (kind of how Ben Wallace was). But the kind of attitude that Cousins brings is direct attitude to his coaches and players; thats not what we want on this team.
I wouldnt mind a player that has attitude towards opposing players, but count me out if the players is bringing attitude towards his own coaches/players
"So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.