View Poll Results: Who would you want the Pacers to draft out of these two?

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  • Derrick Favors

    62 79.49%
  • DeMarcus Cousins

    16 20.51%
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Thread: Favors or Cousins?

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I agree with this but we really don't know half of the things that go on behind the scenes with any of these guys. This is why its very important to do the homework on a guy. If he shows a inability to learn what it means to act like a pro then we should pass but I do agree with Seth about how a 18/19 year old can mature quite a bit in a short amount of time.

    To me more time needs to go into "if" Favors can progress on the court and in the case of Cousins more time needs to be dedicated to see if he is going to be too out of control on and off the court.
    THANK YOU.

    Interesting story for you guys...

    I have a professor who teaches my leadership class and he graduated from Illinois university and did his graduate work their as well. and he taught a bunch of players from that 05 Illinois bball team that went to the ship against UNC. James Augustine, Luther Head, and Dee Brown being the main ones.
    He informed us that the staff was the only ones who knew that Luthter Head was involved in a heavy drug and alcohol problem on campus and got caught (during tourney time) and the university swept the issues under the rug to avoid press from the media.

    Its things like these that could come into account of a players phsychee when drafting them. Even thought the media/community dont know about certain issues, its still attached to the player himself, so it could affect his work ethic/attitude/punctuality/dedication to the team/etc.
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  2. #102
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Where do you get this comparison? As a freshmen he has already surpassed the 4 years of McGloires. I think its best just to not to compare personally because it either leads to a really unrealistic expectation or to a unfair deflated one.
    Yes, he will be better than McGloire...and probably already is. He still reminds me of him because he's slow and has no hops and is not that gifted on offense. He only dominates in college because he outweighs most of his competition by 40 or 50 lbs. When he has to face stronger interior players on a regular basis, his weaknesses will be exposed. No more bull rush to the rim...

  3. #103
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    If you don't understand what I am trying to say is fine with me, the reason why I am bringing that back is because the same guys who give a pass to Wall for been immature are the ones talking about how immature Cousins is, the one guy got an excuse because he is young and the other guy does not have one, even though he is young like Wall.


    By the way I think is time for you to let that picture go, Dunleavy is done.(just my advice )
    I understand where you're coming from, I'm just tired of hearing all the this guy did this, this guy did that. I personally don't care what they did as long as they have talent, and can control their 'issues".

    That's the sticking point with me, can they control it. I don't follow UK close enough to know what each player is doing, but it sounds like Cousins has multiple rumors floating around of misbehaving. The only thing I've heard from Wall is the case with him being in an abandon house he wasn't suppose to be in. That personally isn't a red flag to me.. personally. I know kids and adults as well that have been in that same situation, and it wasn't harmful, they just shouldn't have been in there.

    My issue with Cousins is pretty much on point with who someone has compared him to... Zach Randolph

    Now Z-Bo is a talented player and has put up good numbers his whole career, but he's been moved around due to his "issues" Now as he's shown this year in Memphis, he's an all-star type player when he stays out of trouble and just plays basketball.

    Problem is he's been with the Blazers, Knicks, and Clippers before figuring that out. I personally don't want to draft Cousins and he show spurts of potential, only to figure it out after he's traded to another team.

    Plus I think Favors is going to be the better player. He's like a silent assassin when I watch him play. He just plays ball and does what he's suppose to do. GTech is actually pretty bad at feeding him in the post from what I saw during the ACC tourney, and he has good position. I think he'll be a lot to handle once he gets to the NBA with no zone and a more free flowing style.

    I don't mind Cousins either. Say what you want about Artest, Jackson and even Tinsley to some extent, they may have issues, but when they're behaving, they're really good basketball players, and as seem with Randolph, Jackson and Artest, talent with issues is still talent and teams are willing to take a chance and sign or trade for these guys


    PS: I know I need to change the Dun Dun avatar, but I still like him as a player. Just waiting for the right time to change it

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  5. #104
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    He seems like a personable guy...



    He also likes babies...



    So he gets the urge to punch people from time to time... who doesn't???

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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Has Cousins ever been in trouble off the court? I know he can be a jerk on the court, but mean front court players is part of what made the Pacers good in the 90's. Hansbrough/Cousins could be an incredibly angry front court.

    There is this wacky rumor that originated on NBAdraft.net that Cousins is on meds for psychological issues. Sounds like a he said she said thing that is not true, but these are the kinds of things TPTB have to look for in the very careful evaluation of Cousins I had advocated.
    Last edited by idioteque; 03-15-2010 at 11:09 PM.

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  8. #106
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Cousins seems like a pretty cool guy and an understanding guy.

    He doesn't have a bad mind. He was just frustrated in that moment so he threw a punch. He doesn't have a history of it happening frequently.

    I really like what Bird has done, but it's a college mistake. I think if he's that "down to earth" than I think this team with the locker room we have will prevent him mentally and physically from doing anything he shouldn't.

    I read an article in ESPN the Magazine the other day and it seems like he has a Rasheed Wallace kind of personality. He picks up technicals here and there, but nothing as crazy as what Sheed picks up on a nightly basis.

    So I'd be happy with either PF. Both can really help this team out defensively.
    Last edited by Trophy; 03-15-2010 at 11:09 PM.

  9. #107
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    There's always a top 4 guy that ends up slipping a few spots, and I think Cousins is going to be that guy this year. I think he'll be a solid NBA Center because he's too talented not to be, but I think teams are going to be wary of him in the top 5 especially with so many other talented big men.

    Everyone saying he's a Center and not a PF is definitely right. Way too slow to play the 4. Favors is definitely the player to pair with Hibbert if Bird thinks Hibbert is worth being the Center of the future. A Cousins, Aldrich or Whiteside pick had better indicate Roy is getting moved, or my optimism will go way down.

    I'm not sure exactly what I want the Pacers to do with this draft, its hard to think about that before we know where we'll draft. However, Cousins is an exciting prospect. I think the Eddy Curry comparison is weak mostly because DeMarcus is a far superior rebounder and defender.

    Favors is obviously very exciting as well and is about as safe as a pick based on potential can be. He's raw as can be, but the improvement we've seen this season combined with the athleticism and work ethic guarantees he'll be a solid pro.

    Wall or Evan though...

  10. #108
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Wow. 5 pages? Not gonna read this thread.

    My answer, for anybody interested, would be "Neither. Trade down."
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  11. #109
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Wow. 5 pages? Not gonna read this thread.

    My answer, for anybody interested, would be "Neither. Trade down."
    Wow....5 pages and you're the only one that choose neither of them if you were given the choice when Evans or Wall are off the board.

    Just out of curiousity....why neither?
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  12. #110
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Wow....5 pages and you're the only one that choose neither of them if you were given the choice when Evans or Wall are off the board.

    Just out of curiousity....why neither?
    Because one of them will be available at 5. I'd rather it was Favors, but regardless the #3 pick will be more valuable as a trade asset than as a player selection asset. I'm fine with moving down a couple of slots.
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  13. #111

    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Without much hesitation, I voted for Favors. And it has little or nothing
    to do with his apparent, temperament issues.

    Assuming that Hibbs is gonna be sticking around at C for the long
    haul (not necessarily a given; I'd be fine with seeing him shipped
    out in a deal that made the team better overall), we need a PF
    that has the ability/lateral agility to guard opposing PF's out on
    the floor. I don't see it with Cousins.

    As for a higher ceiling, Favors gets the nod there too. Cousins is
    closer to what he'll ultimately be (a beast down low) than Favors
    is (I suspect his ceiling is more or less Antonio McDyess, pre-knee
    injuries).

  14. #112

    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Wow. 5 pages? Not gonna read this thread.

    My answer, for anybody interested, would be "Neither. Trade down."

    My list of the 4 top picks are

    Wall
    Turner
    Cousins
    Favors

    so what player do you feel will be a top 5 player pushing down either Cousins or Favors to be available at #5?

  15. #113
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    I honestly think that Cousins' attitude "problems" aren't really a problem. Right now he's in a system that breeds messed up attitudes. That doesn't mean he won't humble somewhat in the NBA.
    Seems to me his "attitude" comes from before he landed at Kentucky.

    I think that Kentucky could take a chance on him because Calipari knew Cousins could make an impact right away, and that Cousins would be a one-and -done player they only had to deal with for a year, in case problems did arise. In the NBA, with gtd. contracts, you don't have that luxury.

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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    There is nothing wrong with putting a little whiskey in your milk.
    Have you ever drank that combination. I haven't, but it sounds like a recipe for a night of praying to the porcelain God.

    =

  17. #115

    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    [QUOTE=Isaac;974003]

    There's always a top 4 guy that ends up slipping a few spots, and I think Cousins is going to be that guy this year. I think he'll be a solid NBA Center because he's too talented not to be, but I think teams are going to be wary of him in the top 5 especially with so many other talented big men./QUOTE]


    I believe your scenario is a very valid one. I also can see one of those teams being the Pacers. The last thing Herb Simon needs is another PR nightmare.

    I can also see where Cousins is still available, and Bird trades the pick to a team that wants Cousins for numerous assets.

  18. #116
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by cordobes View Post
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    Swagger and attitude are nice, but speed, quickness and athleticism win more games.

    Maybe Cousins is the right choice (in terms of current ability, he's certainly the more skilled player and there's a good chance he'll always be the more talented offensive player) but what you need as a PF as currently constructed is a player like Favors, not one like Cousins. That shouldn't stop you from picking Cousins if he's a much better player, but being a better fit isn't a good argument to pick him.
    Well, and who's to say Bird would not do something like draft Cousins, then trade Roy or Hansbrough plus whomever for a first rounder to be used on maybe a Patterson or Monroe? Sounds a bit scary, or even unlikely, but it is Bird we talking about.

  19. #117
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    Still, if I were sitting at #4, knowing that if one of them goes at 3 and I still get the other at 4, I'd be pretty happy with that.
    Agreed!
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  20. #118
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    Well, and who's to say Bird would not do something like draft Cousins, then trade Roy or Hansbrough plus whomever for a first rounder to be used on maybe a Patterson or Monroe? Sounds a bit scary, or even unlikely, but it is Bird we talking about.
    If we could get Patterson or Monroe for Hansbrough, I would take that trade and run. Patterson is as good as Hansbrough IMO, and Monroe could be better.
    Grown Man Ball

  21. #119
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    I don't think Hansbrough has value with his injury. I don't think with the type of injury he has and how it is directly related to how he has to play to have value helps either.

    It would be like if Wall had some severe ankle injury that would take away his quickness and threaten his athleticism long term.

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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I don't think Hansbrough has value with his injury. I don't think with the type of injury he has and how it is directly related to how he has to play to have value helps either.

    It would be like if Wall had some severe ankle injury that would take away his quickness and threaten his athleticism long term.
    I definitely don't think it's possible that we could pull that trade off. That's why I said I'd take it and run. I don't see another team placing much value on Hansbrough at all right now, or anytime until he can prove that he is able to play.
    Grown Man Ball

  23. #121
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    It's not black and white. There are shades of gray when discussing the character of one of these players (that we know about), and Cousins's shade seems closer to black than white. Doesn't mean it's "totally clean or get the hell out". This guy looks to be at least a couple notches beyond "minor issues".

    Personally, if I'm the GM, I gamble on "dark side" players, but ONLY if they are part of the supporting cast, NOT one of my core top 2, 3, 4 guys.
    Yep. Think of a David Harrison type temper, but a guy more likely to do something when angry.

  24. #122
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    Well, and who's to say Bird would not do something like draft Cousins, then trade Roy or Hansbrough plus whomever for a first rounder to be used on maybe a Patterson or Monroe? Sounds a bit scary, or even unlikely, but it is Bird we talking about.
    I actually think Monroe is a 5 in the NBA as well. He's pretty slow laterally, and I could see a team using him like New York uses David Lee. Not a bad thing, but I'm not sure he would be a great fit next to Hibbert either.

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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    My draft pick has to have a good immune system.
    not too good...you don't want it to reach Dejaun Wagner territory (for those that don't know, colitis is caused by an immune system that is too strong and kills all or most of your nessessary digestive bacteria).
    Last edited by Merz; 03-16-2010 at 02:23 PM.

  26. #124
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    My list of the 4 top picks are

    Wall
    Turner
    Cousins
    Favors

    so what player do you feel will be a top 5 player pushing down either Cousins or Favors to be available at #5?
    No idea. But there will be somebody (probably two players) who climb the boards as we get closer to the draft. Assuming all four of these guys come out, I'd expect at least one to be available at #5.
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  27. #125
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    Default Re: Favors or Cousins?

    Quote Originally Posted by SMosley21 View Post
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    If we could get Patterson or Monroe for Hansbrough, I would take that trade and run.
    If you could get a first-round pick for Hans I'd be shocked.
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