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Thread: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

  1. #51

    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    I agree, we don't want him playing PG. I think he would be ok with AJ starting. In fact, I think he would be great with AJ at PG and Brandon moving to SF. Yes, Brandon is plenty big enough to play SF.

    We just need a tough as nails PF, ala Al Horford, to play alongside Hibbert, and I would pit that team against anyone.

    And yes, Al could be a Pacer for Danny. JoeJ is going leave I think. And they might view Danny as filling Joe's role. totally speculating here...

  2. #52

    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Sookie I am pretty sure that Turner already knows how to play PG the guy is the player of the year and his numbers are really good also, I know you are making an excuse so they can play AJ more, but if the pacers get Turner they got to play him at PG he would create shots for everybody around him and would kill every opponent by doing it the only way he knows slowly
    Honestly, I'm not.

    It's a really REALLY big pet peeve of mine. I hate it when teams do that. The Uconn men tried it a few times this year with Jerome Dyson (*vomits*)

    You
    A. hurt the player whose being forced to play out of position
    B. hurt the team, because the player is being forced to play out of their position.

    It's just a bad call..almost any other position you can mix and match..just..you can't force a non point to play the point.

    And for the record, he's had a fantastic season, but statistically as a point guard, it's not good. And his team really just plays three shooting guards, and Turner just so happens to bring the ball up the court. (I watch that offense with the Uconn women..) A shooting guard can create shots for other teammates (a la Wade and Bryant and Ginobili) And really really good SG/SF can get away with playing the PG at the college level (Wade, Tyreke, Lebron would have) they can not in the Pros..Turner is turnover prone in College..

    And honestly, IMO, Ohio State not having a true point guard is going to hurt them in the NCAAs. Some team is going to press the crap out of them, and they'll struggle.

    And the bottom line is, why would we want to make Turner less effective? Why would we want his job to suddenly be making sure other players score, instead of looking for his points for. Or directing traffic, when quite frankly he's not as equipped to do that. Or taking care of the ball excessively..just causing more turnovers.. I'm not saying he's not going to drive and create shots for others, but I'm saying leave the "court general, bringing the ball up the court, setting up the offense, directing traffic ect" to an actual point guard..whether it's AJ or Augustine or someone else we trade for.

    Honestly, if we insist on playing this "3SG/SF rotation with no acutal point" - which doesn't work - then I'd rather give Rush the role of point. From what I've seen, he's got better handles then Turner, it takes some responsibility off the rook, and it might force Rush to come out of his shell. Plus..the guy is past first anyway..let Turner continue scoring.
    Last edited by Sookie; 03-13-2010 at 11:00 PM.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Listen. He's not a PG. Just like Wade isn't a PG. Just like Evans wasn't either.

    He "can play PG" at the college level. That's extremely different then being a PG or even being a PG at the NBA level. It's not a measurements thing, it's a what position he's best suited for thing. Heck..today..he had a triple double. Points, Rebounds, and Turnovers. Not. A. Point. Guard. It's not about his defense, it's about his offense. (although interestingly, he's apparently dating the Ohio State women's point guard...who is one hell of a point guard..sort of the Lindsay Lohan of Long Island points though.)

    If we're lucky enough to get Turner, we'll probably have the best wing combination with Turner/Granger + Rush as a backup to either and DJones to fill in in the NBA. But you don't force an excellent rookie into a role he won't excell at, particularly when he will excell at another role.

    He CAN play PG at the NBA level. NO doubt about that. Now time will tell if it's his BEST position. But one thing fits.
    The guy cannot be stopped one on one. He can get into the lane with no help and finish or dish.
    He's an excellent passer.
    You can call him whatever you want, but whatever team gets him....
    they WILL put the ball in his hands at crunch time.
    like every other star.

  4. #54

    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Quote Originally Posted by MLB007 View Post
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    He CAN play PG at the NBA level. NO doubt about that. Now time will tell if it's his BEST position. But one thing fits.
    The guy cannot be stopped one on one. He can get into the lane with no help and finish or dish.
    He's an excellent passer.
    You can call him whatever you want, but whatever team gets him....
    they WILL put the ball in his hands at crunch time.
    like every other star.
    way to describe Kobe Bryant...who is...not a point guard.

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    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    And for the record, he's had a fantastic season, but statistically as a point guard, it's not good.
    And the bottom line is, why would we want to make Turner less effective?
    19.5 ppg 5.9 apg 9.1rpg 1.8 spg all this as a PG, so yes he is a point guard, end of the discussion.

  6. #56

    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    19.5 ppg 5.9 apg 9.1rpg 1.8 spg all this as a PG, so yes he is a point guard, end of the discussion.
    4 turnovers per game. 1.5 assist to turnover ratio. Which admittedly is better than his 1.1 assist to turnover ratio the year before.

    I'm not gonna argue it anymore though. If we're lucky enough to get him, It'll be pretty obvious he's not a point guard. I understand people absolutely drool over the scoring advantage we'd have at the point, with Turner having to be guarded by like..Nash..but honestly, the negatives really out weight the positives (espeically since, despite having the scoring advantage, his #1 job will be setting other people up. Wouldn't we rather someone was setting HIM up.)
    Last edited by Sookie; 03-13-2010 at 11:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Quote Originally Posted by SMosley21 View Post
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    Really? What are you basing this statement on, because it definitely can't be facts. Considering we're 4th worst in the league right now and not showing any improvement, I'd say the numbers give us a very good chance of being "somewhere near a top 2 pick".
    It's by no means a lock. We're equally close to picking 9th-10th. One of our patented, late season, lottery screwing runs would do it.

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    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    If we could somehow land Turner if Wall were already gone I'd be very happy. I think they both will be special players at the next level. I think that he is my favorite college player this year.

    I think with Turner we could play that small ball JOB likes so much. Maybe with this line-up:

    PG- Price
    SG- Turner
    SF- Rush
    PF- Granger
    C- Hibbert




  11. #59

    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffg-body View Post
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    If we could somehow land Turner if Wall were already gone I'd be very happy. I think they both will be special players at the next level. I think that he is my favorite college player this year.

    I think with Turner we could play that small ball JOB likes so much. Maybe with this line-up:

    PG- Price
    SG- Turner
    SF- Rush
    PF- Granger
    C- Hibbert




    Oh, Obie would just love that..why don't we only have McBob as a backup PF and Solo as the only backup Center..just to make Obie SUPER Happy.
    Last edited by Sookie; 03-13-2010 at 11:55 PM.

  12. #60
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    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Have you seen Lebron numbers when he was playing PG more?
    Remind me... what was his team's record back then?

    Quote Originally Posted by venezuela1981
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    Lebron is their PG there is not doubt about that, he has the ball in his hand most of the time and he is the one that creates the offense and also the three "point guards" they have are shooting guards in PG bodies they are not true PG's
    Sure. And Kobe's a point guard. And Brandon Roy's a point guard. And Dwayne Wade's a point guard. And probably Dirk too.
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  13. #61

    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    The Lakers play the triple post offence which is a 2-guard front system, meaning there's no PG as the position is normally understood. There are 2 guards who share duties (even though in the Lakers one of them, Kobe, is extremely dominant). 2 guard front offences were very popular back in the day and they can still be effective.

    Turner can't play as the quarterback of a PG centric offence, so he isn't a PG, but he can surely be the primary creator and playmaker for some team - think Pierce in Boston until 2 years ago or Joe Johnson in Atlanta. Turner can do a lot of stuff and doesn't need the ball on his hands all the time, that's his biggest asset.

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    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Remind me... what was his team's record back then?


    Sure. And Kobe's a point guard. And Brandon Roy's a point guard. And Dwayne Wade's a point guard. And probably Dirk too.
    I could not find that a PG should be under 6'4'' according to this descriptions you can call Lebron, Kobe and Brandon Roy point guards, not comments about Dirk(not worth it)
    http://www.answers.com/topic/point-guard
    point guard definition:

    Point guard (PG), also called the play maker or "the ball-handler", is one of the standard positions in a regulation basketball game. A point guard has perhaps the most specialized role of any position -- essentially, they are expected to run the team's offense by controlling the ball and making sure that it gets to the right players at the right time. Above all, the point guard must totally understand and accept his or her coach's game plan; in this way, the position can be compared to a quarterback in American football

    Point guard characteristics
    A point guard, like all player positions in basketball, has specific characteristics that are essential for them to help guide their team to a victory. The Basketball Handbook by Lee Rose describes a point guard as a coach on the floor, who can handle and distribute the ball to teammates. It also states that the more speed a point guard has, the more likely he will be able to create separation and space off the dribble, which allows the point guard room to work. Point guards should also be vocal floor leaders, and should discuss rule interpretations with officials. A point guard must always know the time on both the shot clock and the game clock, the score, the number of timeouts for both teams, and whom to foul late in the game.

    Most current NBA point guards are 6'4" (1.93 m) or lower in height. A true point guard's job is to create scoring opportunities for his team. The role includes passing and running the offense: setting up plays on the court, getting the ball to the teammate that he feels is in the best position to score, and dictating the tempo of the game. This also means knowing when and how to instigate a fast break and when and how to initiate the more deliberate sets.[1]

    After an opponent scores, it is typically the point guard who brings the ball down court to begin an offensive play. For this reason, passing skills, ball handling, and court vision are pivotal. Point guards are often evaluated more on their assist totals than on their scoring. John Stockton, who is considered one of the greatest point guards of all time, is the NBA's all time leader in assists. Still, a first-rate point guard should also have a reasonably effective jump shot.

    If a point guard has more size (height, muscle) compared to the prototypical point guard, it is considered a plus, but size is only secondary to awareness and ball skills. Among the taller players who have enjoyed success at the position is Magic Johnson, who was 6'9"/2.06 m and won the National Basketball Association Most Valuable Player Award three times in his career. Other point guards who have been named the NBA MVP include Bob Cousy, Oscar Robertson (who somewhat foreshadowed Johnson in that he was 6'5"/1.96 m, the size of many forwards in his era), and Steve Nash.

    Styles of play
    Offense
    The point guard is almost always positioned on the perimeter of the play, so as to have the best view of the action. This is a necessity because of the point guard's leadership obligations. Many times, the point guard is referred to by announcers as a "coach on the floor" or a "floor general". In the past, this was particularly true, as several point guards such as Lenny Wilkens served their team as a player-coach. This is not as common anymore, as most coaches are now solely specialized to coaching and are non-players. Some point guards are still given a great deal of leeway in the offense, such as Steve Nash of the Phoenix Suns. Former Suns head coach Mike D'Antoni had allowed him to freelance often when leading the Suns' offense, even letting Nash call his own plays at times. Even point guards who are not given this much freedom, however, are still extensions of their coach on the floor and must display good leadership skills.

    Along with leadership and a general basketball acumen, ball-handling is a skill of great importance to a point guard. Generally speaking, the point guard is the player in possession of the ball for the most time during a game and is responsible for maintaining possession of the ball for his team in the face of any pressure from the opponents. Point guards must be able to maintain possession of the ball in crowded spaces and in traffic and be able to advance the ball quickly. A point guard that has enough ball-handling skill and quickness to be able to drive to the basket in a half-court set is also very valuable and considered by some to be a must for a successful offense.

    After overall ball-handling, passing and scoring are the next most important areas of the game for a point guard. As the primary decision maker for a team, a point guard's passing ability determines how well a point guard is able to put his or her decision into play. It is one thing to be able to recognize the player that it is in a tactically advantageous position, but it is another thing entirely to able to deliver the ball to that player. For this reason, a point guard is usually, but not always, more skilled and focused on passing than shooting. However, a good jump shot and the ability to score off a drive to the basket are still valuable skills. A point guard will often use his or her ability to score in order to augment his or her effectiveness as a decision maker and play maker.

    In addition to the traditional role of the point guard, modern teams have found new ways to utilize the position. Notably, several modern point guards have used a successful style of post play, a tactic usually practiced by much larger centers and forwards. Working off of the fact that the opposing point guard is in all probability an undersized player with limited strength, several modern point guards have developed games close to the basket that include being able to utilize the drop step, spin move, and fade away jump shot. Former New York Knicks & Indiana Pacers PG Mark Jackson, and Chauncey Billups (now of the Denver Nuggets) are notable examples of players who frequently use this style of play. Michael Jordan's habit of incessantly backing down opposing PGs in the post actually prompted the NBA to institute a rule against a ballhandler keeping his back to the basket for more than 5 seconds at a time.

    Defense
    A point guard primarily defends on the perimeter, just as he primarily plays on the perimeter on offense. On defense, the point guard is tasked with making the opposing point guard as ineffective as possible. A defensive point guard will try to accomplish this with constant pressure on the ball, making it difficult to maintain possession. A defensive point guard will also pressure passing lanes to his opponent to try and generate steals and offensive opportunities for his own team.

    Another important task for a point guard on the defensive end is to be a help defender. Whenever the player that the point guard is tasked with defending is away from the ball, a point guard will usually allow distance to accumulate from his or her assignment in order to help his or her teammates with their assignments. Gary Payton, John Stockton, Jason Kidd, and Walt Frazier are often considered among the greatest defensive point guards in NBA history

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    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    It's called "Point Forward"

    i.e. Magic Johnson

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    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Quote Originally Posted by DGPR View Post
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    It's called "Point Forward"

    i.e. Magic Johnson
    Magic was the PG (except for that one game where he subbed for an injured Kareem and played Center). AC Green and James Worthy were the starting forwards for most of Magic's career.

  18. #65

    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Lets not get ahead of ourselves, Evan Turner isn't Magic Johnson.

    Turner won't touch the point guard slot regardless of what team drafts him, for the same reason Mo William, Billups and Westbrook play point alongside LeBron, Carmelo and Durant respectively.

    It just isn't a realistic thought.

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    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    way to describe Kobe Bryant...who is...not a point guard.
    You're talking about some textbook definition of pg apparently.
    The Kobe I see has the ball in his hands to start the offensive set whenever they need points.
    Sounds like a point guard to me.

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    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    4 turnovers per game. 1.5 assist to turnover ratio. Which admittedly is better than his 1.1 assist to turnover ratio the year before.

    I'm not gonna argue it anymore though. If we're lucky enough to get him, It'll be pretty obvious he's not a point guard. I understand people absolutely drool over the scoring advantage we'd have at the point, with Turner having to be guarded by like..Nash..but honestly, the negatives really out weight the positives (espeically since, despite having the scoring advantage, his #1 job will be setting other people up. Wouldn't we rather someone was setting HIM up.)
    Totally ignoring the fact that this is his FIRST year playing the position.
    That he has next to nothing to help him on the offensive side of the floor.
    That he is back from a BROKEN BONE IN HIS BACK (same season).
    If WE get him, there's not much doubt he'll play pg.
    If someone else that already has a good pg does, then he won't.
    He's a BASKETBALL PLAYER, first, foremost, and completely.
    He could play 1, 2, or 3 (did I mention that he LEAD THE BIG 10 IN REBOUNDING!!!!! As a GUARD!!!!) at the next level.
    Fact is, WE don't have anybody to set him up, he will be the best we have (if we are lucky enough) at setting OTHER people up.
    You will see.

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    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Quote Originally Posted by knucklecup View Post
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    Lets not get ahead of ourselves, Evan Turner isn't Magic Johnson.

    Turner won't touch the point guard slot regardless of what team drafts him, for the same reason Mo William, Billups and Westbrook play point alongside LeBron, Carmelo and Durant respectively.

    It just isn't a realistic thought.
    It's not out of the question that he might be. He's a very special player.
    He will play the pg for the Pacers if we get him
    It is entirely realistic.
    You haven't seen this kid enough.

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    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    No problem with playing Turner at the two, but allowing him to create most of the actiona a la Roy, Wade, etc. The kid is plenty talented enough to be as good as Roy. You stick a great shooting PG next to him a la Mo Williams, Steve Blake, you name it and you have a great backcourt.

    People get too caught up in positions IMHO. I don't think there have been "point guards", "shooting guards", etc. in the NBA for about the past decade. Everyone is a hybrid of some sort in today's NBA.

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    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Bill Simmons: 2010 NBA trade value column - ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Simmons
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    15. Tyreke Evans

    The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him. You can't call these guys point guards, and they handle the ball too much to be 2-guards. So they're 0-guards. Ideally, you want to surround 0-guards with spot-up shooters, one rebounder and a pick-and-pop forward who can make 18-footers. Gilbert Arenas created the 0-guard position, for better or worse; Dwyane Wade mastered it; Brandon Roy strikes the best balance between selfish and unselfish; and Evans might have the most raw talent of any of them. I've personally seen him turn four or five games into layup lines this season. And yet, would I want to play with him? Right now … not really. Some day … maybe.
    Turner would probably qualify as a 0-guard.

    If you look at their shot attempts and assists per-game their final seasons of NCAA play, I think you could make a strong argument that Turner is the least-selfish of the bunch coming into the league, even more-so than Roy.


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    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Free tickets to every Pacers game while Evan is a member of the team? I'll take it.

    If Evan got drafted by the Pacers my whole world would be flipped upside down. My childhood friend the star of the Pacers? I can't fathom it.

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    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac View Post
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    Free tickets to every Pacers game while Evan is a member of the team? I'll take it.

    If Evan got drafted by the Pacers my whole world would be flipped upside down. My childhood friend the star of the Pacers? I can't fathom it.
    Childhood friend huh? How often does E.T. phone home then?

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    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffg-body View Post
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    If we could somehow land Turner if Wall were already gone I'd be very happy. I think they both will be special players at the next level. I think that he is my favorite college player this year.

    I think with Turner we could play that small ball JOB likes so much. Maybe with this line-up:

    PG- Price
    SG- Turner
    SF- Rush
    PF- Granger
    C- Hibbert



    I'll say this. The Pacers have put far worse line-ups on the floor.

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    Default Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    I'll say this. The Pacers have put far worse line-ups on the floor.
    that is so true..............

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