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Thread: TWill goes triple double

  1. #1
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default TWill goes triple double

    12-25 for 27 points, 13 rebounds, 10 assists, 3 TOs and led his team with +15 in the double overtime win over Chicago by 11.

    Just sayin'

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    You Did It Joseph!!!! AesopRockOn's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    A nice game.

    But, hey, NapSeth, you don't give yourself enough credit for being a predictor of player NBA performance. We still have to see from Henderson.

    You may have missed on Jrue Holiday...I'm just kidding. Actually, you've done pretty well as of late.

    I predicted Rush would be a 6th or 7th man on an NBA championship team....

    On the real, how do you think we would have been with a Bayless/T-Will backcourt this year. (I'm assuming this would have happened considering records, prospects, etc. I think we'd be picking D. Favors right now.
    Last edited by AesopRockOn; 04-10-2010 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Posting at 2:49 am on a Friday night.

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    play harder! focused444's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    I caught the end of this one, and found it interesting the Nets had TWill bringing the ball up the floor with both D. Harris and C.Lee on the floor. Maybe they should do that more often.

  4. #4

    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    I guess I missed the thread where you gushed about his 2-13 outburst against the Bucks in the game before this one.

    Just sayin' .................

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    Member Pacemaker's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Not too long ago Hibbert was about to get his first triple double when JOB happened !! Come On !!! Why JOB ? Why ?

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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Well this is all obviously irrelevant considering the Nets still have a losing record.

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    Member OakMoses's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    His points per shot is still unacceptably low.

    Actually, I've been looking forward to tonight's game just to watch TWill.
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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Kid can't shoot.

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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Thought this was cute:

    Quote Originally Posted by TWill
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    "A couple of players from the Raptors that I know just texted me and said: 'Thank you,"' said Williams, who refused to name them. "It was like in my head: 'Thank you for what?' Then, oh, the eighth spot and all that. It's special because it came with a win."
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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    His points per shot is still unacceptably low.


    Actually, I've been looking forward to tonight's game just to watch TWill.

    I was in favor of drafting T'Will, so I have kept daily tabs on him all season. He's shooting like Westbrook did his rookie year. IIRC, Westbrook shot terribly about the 1st 1/3 of this season too. I expect to see an improvement in T'Will's shooting next season.

    And I'm also looking forward to watching T'Will tonight.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Quote Originally Posted by focused444 View Post
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    I caught the end of this one, and found it interesting the Nets had TWill bringing the ball up the floor with both D. Harris and C.Lee on the floor. Maybe they should do that more often.
    Which is what I wanted the Pacers to do, and this was some of the buzz from NBA people interested in him. The idea of him as a point forward was why people thought Nellie was going to want him.

    The thing in NJ is with so many "I need the ball guys" - Harris, Lee, CDR, Alston, and even Hassell early on, they weren't using TWill in that role as much and it hurts his game.

    He's not a great shooter. My defense had been that he worked on it and adjusted mid-season in college which seemed like a positive sign for a guy headed to the draft, ie why risk hurting your stock months before the draft.

    But he was struggling with his outside shot this year pretty badly. I think that's because they stuck him on the wing as a "wait till we pass it to you and then do something" guy, which really highlights his weakpoints and wastes his strengths.


    I didn't post this thread on a bad night for the same reason I didn't post on one of his several other good nights. I have kicked in some of that to the rookie discussion thread, but this just seemed more noteworthy.

    I'm not claiming his rookie year to be perfect in the least. He's been hot the last month, his shooting is still his weakpoint and was a disaster most of the year. If I'm coaching him I want him to pass, rebound and defend and only shoot occasionally, like Mark Jackson. You put Jax on the wing just throwing up 3PA and long jumpers and he doesn't last in the NBA.

    The trick here is that TWill is point-SF instead of PG and you need buy in to have him run the plays rather than be a more traditional scorer. Even in this trip-dub the 12-25 stands out as the exception more than the rule for him. 5-25 is something you want to avoid risking, meaning the 25 FGA is way too much.



    And some of why I posted was exactly the Gerald Henderson stuff, that people thought TWill was a miss.

    I'll also stand by Henderson. He gets no PT, but I don't buy that he's a dud yet. It's Larry Brown and he's a kid. Dismissing Henderson right now would be like dismissing McRoberts after his Portland season.

    That's why I would target him. If you can get Charlotte to add him into a deal as filler much like McRoberts was you'd get great value with minimal risk.

    If Henderson goes for 36 on 14-27 or something, I'll probably note that one too. And don't think I'll hide from him if he is out of the league in 4 years, I'll cop to that completely.



    As for draft misses in general, I've been plenty forthcoming that Collison is ripping it up when I'd written him off as a super-glue PG.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Bayless - well in defending the Jack/Rush trade I've had to take something of an anti-Bayless stand, pointing out the negatives on him when people mad about the trade claimed Bayless was going All-Star or something. But I was pro-Bayless as a scoring prospect, happy when they drafted him, and equally pleased by what I saw was a smart, fair trade with Portland.

    On the year his 3P% is poor, that's a problem. And it would appear that his PT limits have been centered on defensive issues, which is also a problem and was part of his scouting.

    I've worried about the buzz on his attitude, as I thought he came off as snotty myself and wondered if that's why he fell in the draft. They couldn't have assumed defensive issues then, and DJ Augustin has those same issues and went above him.


    So, Bayless/TWill - well obviously this works to a degree if you play them as the PG/SG combo with Bayless as the offensive SG. TWill could help him on defense which would reduce that impact a little.

    I love Bayless in the Courtney Lee role, very similar offensive game in that he scores a lot of his own dribble. But without the deep jumper Bayless is limiting your offense, especially paired with TWill and his awful deep ball.

    Frankly I'd much rather have seen the Pacers where they almost were - Jack kept at PG, Rush as the spot up 3 SG and TWill playing the "PG" role with either Jack or Rush for 20 mpg.

    I think that gives you great backcourt defense, gives TWill shooters to work to (Rush, Granger esp.), TONS of rebounding from your backcourt if it's TWill and Rush, and gives you that guy with the ball setting up situations.


    Now, if JOB is coaching this doesn't happen period. Neither TWill nor Bayless get to play without the 3P shot....well, I guess I'm not sure on that since Dun, Ford, and Head got to play plenty while shooting in the low 30s or worse.




    JRUE - man, I really did want them to take him, though I still stand by my concern that he came out too early and that Indy might have been a train wreck situation for him to actually develop in. To me he was/is a "wait till next year" guy, he wasn't ready to be your PG this year. Price was more ready for that, more mature and confident.

    But just think if you've got Jrue right now....sheesh. It seemed like an obvious choice too, it's not hindsight.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacemaker View Post
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    Not too long ago Hibbert was about to get his first triple double when JOB happened !! Come On !!! Why JOB ? Why ?


    Had a text meltdown with Gnome on that one. I was texting him "hey, Roy's on the verge of a trip dub with tons of time left" and before I could hit send...

    Seriously Jim? I mean really, you can't just let Roy hit the high/low post for 6 more trips to see if you can find 3 assists off that?

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    Member OakMoses's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    But just think if you've got Jrue right now....sheesh. It seemed like an obvious choice too, it's not hindsight.
    But if you were like me during the draft, you were never all that excited when Jrue was still there because you knew we wouldn't take him. Just like you didn't get too upset about the Bucks drafting Jennings because you knew we were passing on him also.

    I still don't think Tyler was a bad pick aside from the injury, but it does hurt that this draft seems to have been far stronger than anybody thought.
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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    This late season outburst should be enough to get Williams off of everyone's "All-Bust Team", which is where he was headed six weeks ago. Still, 8 & 4 with sub-.400 shooting on one of the worst teams in league history isn't something to be bragging about.

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    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    This late season outburst should be enough to get Williams off of everyone's "All-Bust Team", which is where he was headed six weeks ago. Still, 8 & 4 with sub-.400 shooting on one of the worst teams in league history isn't something to be bragging about.
    I like the idea of an "All-Bust Team".

    2000:

    PG: Mateen Cleaves (14 Detroit)
    SG: Courtney Alexander (13 Dallas)
    SF: Dermarr Johnson (6 Atlanta)
    PF: Marcus Fizer (4 Chicago)
    C: Jerome Moiso (11 Boston)

    2001:

    PG: Joseph Forte (21 Boston)
    SG: Kedrick Brown (11 Boston)
    SF: Rodney White (9 Detroit)
    PF: Kwame Brown (1 Washington)
    C: Eddy Curry (4 Chicago)

    2002:

    PG: Jay Williams (2 Chicago)
    SG: Dejuan Wagner (6 Cleveland)
    SF: Jiri Welsch (16 Golden State)
    PF: Nikoloz Tskitishvili (5 Denver)
    C: Curtis Borchardt (18 Utah)

    2003:

    PG: Troy Bell (16 Memphis)
    SG: Reece Gaines (15 Orlando)
    SF: Zoran Planinic (22 New Jersey)
    PF: Darko Milicic (2 Detroit)
    C: Zarko Cabarkapa (17 Phoenix)

    2004:

    PG: Shaun Livingston (4 Clippers)
    SG: Kirk Snyder (16 Utah)
    SF: Luke Jackson (10 Cleveland)
    PF: Robert Swift (12 Seattle)
    C: Rafael Araujo (8 Toronto)

    2005:

    PG: Luther Head (24 Houston)
    SG: Rashad McCants (14 Minnesota)
    SF: Julius Hodge (20 Denver)
    PF: Ike Diogu (9 Golden State)
    C: Fran Vazquez (11 Orlando)

    2006:

    PG: Quincy Douby (19 Sacramento)
    SG: Adam Morrison (3 Charlotte)
    SF: Shawne Williams (17 Indiana)
    PF: Shelden Williams (5 Atlanta)
    C: Saer Sene (10 Seattle)

    2007:

    PG: Acie Law (11 Atlanta)
    SG: Morris Almond (25 Utah)
    SF: Alando Tucker (29 Phoenix)
    PF: Brandan Wright (8 Golden State)
    C: Sean Williams (17 New Jersey)

    2008:

    PG: Jerryd Bayless (11 Portland)
    SG: J.R. Giddens (30 Boston)
    SF: Joe Alexander (8 Milwaukee)
    PF: Darrell Arthur (27 Memphis)
    C: Alexis Ajinca (20 Charlotte)

    2009:

    PG: Ricky Rubio (5 Minnesota)
    SG: Gerald Henderson (12 Charlotte)
    SF: Earl Clark (14 Phoenix)
    PF: Tyler Hansbrough (13 Indiana)
    C: Hasheem Thabeet (2 Memphis)
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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I like the idea of an "All-Bust Team".

    2000:

    PG: Mateen Cleaves (14 Detroit)
    SG: Courtney Alexander (13 Dallas)
    SF: Dermarr Johnson (6 Atlanta)
    PF: Marcus Fizer (4 Chicago)
    C: Jerome Moiso (11 Boston)

    2001:

    PG: Joseph Forte (21 Boston)
    SG: Kedrick Brown (11 Boston)
    SF: Rodney White (9 Detroit)
    PF: Kwame Brown (1 Washington)
    C: Eddy Curry (4 Chicago)

    2002:

    PG: Jay Williams (2 Chicago)
    SG: Dejuan Wagner (6 Cleveland)
    SF: Jiri Welsch (16 Golden State)
    PF: Nikoloz Tskitishvili (5 Denver)
    C: Curtis Borchardt (18 Utah)

    2003:

    PG: Troy Bell (16 Memphis)
    SG: Reece Gaines (15 Orlando)
    SF: Zoran Planinic (22 New Jersey)
    PF: Darko Milicic (2 Detroit)
    C: Zarko Cabarkapa (17 Phoenix)

    2004:

    PG: Shaun Livingston (4 Clippers)
    SG: Kirk Snyder (16 Utah)
    SF: Luke Jackson (10 Cleveland)
    PF: Robert Swift (12 Seattle)
    C: Rafael Araujo (8 Toronto)

    2005:

    PG: Luther Head (24 Houston)
    SG: Rashad McCants (14 Minnesota)
    SF: Julius Hodge (20 Denver)
    PF: Ike Diogu (9 Golden State)
    C: Fran Vazquez (11 Orlando)

    2006:

    PG: Quincy Douby (19 Sacramento)
    SG: Adam Morrison (3 Charlotte)
    SF: Shawne Williams (17 Indiana)
    PF: Shelden Williams (5 Atlanta)
    C: Saer Sene (10 Seattle)

    2007:

    PG: Acie Law (11 Atlanta)
    SG: Morris Almond (25 Utah)
    SF: Alando Tucker (29 Phoenix)
    PF: Brandan Wright (8 Golden State)
    C: Sean Williams (17 New Jersey)

    2008:

    PG: Jerryd Bayless (11 Portland)
    SG: J.R. Giddens (30 Boston)
    SF: Joe Alexander (8 Milwaukee)
    PF: Darrell Arthur (27 Memphis)
    C: Alexis Ajinca (20 Charlotte)

    2009:

    PG: Ricky Rubio (5 Minnesota)
    SG: Gerald Henderson (12 Charlotte)
    SF: Earl Clark (14 Phoenix)
    PF: Tyler Hansbrough (13 Indiana)
    C: Hasheem Thabeet (2 Memphis)
    2009 -- It's a bit early for this, but Hansbrough's putting up 17 & 10 per-36, including a superstar knack for getting to the line, despite playing at roughly 70% health (a warrior's mentality). Thabeet has shown he can be a rebounder and monster shot blocker; exactly why he was a top-five pick. If you're gonna be silly enough to put Rubio on the list then you might as well throw Blake Griffin in as well. Jordan Hill and James Johnson look ho-hum.

    2008 -- I'd replace Giddens with Brandon Rush. Both look like career backups on winning teams, but one was drafted in the lottery, the other, the end of the first round. I'd also knock Arthur off the team and replace him with Augustin. Both suck, but again, late first rounder vs. lottery pick.

    2007 -- Take off Almond and Tucker and add Mike Conley and Corey Brewer.

    2006 -- Nearly the entire draft is a train wreck so let's just pretend it never happened.

    2005 -- Luther Head? I'm willing to bet he's slightly above average for a 25th pick. I'd replace with McCants with Webster (who Portland moved down from #3 to draft... ouch) and Hodge with Yaroslav Korolev.

    2004 -- No real complaints. You know the draft is shaky when lottery picks Sebastian Telfair and Kris Humphries don't even make the (hypothetical) All-Bust Team.

    2003, 2002 -- Again, no real disagreements.

    2001 -- I'd take off Curry, who's a skilled offensive center with a fairly lengthy NBA career and replace him with one of the biggest headcases in recent NBA history, Eddie Griffin, taken 7th.

    2000 -- Makes '06 look like the '96 draft by comparison.

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    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    2007 -- Take off Almond and Tucker and add Mike Conley and Corey Brewer.


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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    ****, say Oden if you want, but what the hell are you talking about?!
    Yeah no kidding. Conley has been steady and Brewer really improved this year. They may never warrant their high selections, but I don't think they are "All-Bust" worthy either.

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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Both Brewer and Conley have had mediocre careers. I don't consider mediocrity acceptable out of a top-10 pick, thus I feel both are busts. Just my opinion, as always.

  23. #21
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    Both Brewer and Conley have had mediocre careers. I don't consider mediocrity acceptable out of a top-10 pick, thus I feel both are busts. Just my opinion, as always.
    Conley has started every game this year for a winning team. And if you think his stats are mediocre, look at what he's done over the last month and a half.

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/mike_c...ame_stats.html
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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Conley does some lovely things on the court but from my perspective he's lacking a big deal of assertiveness. He's very timid. Should be a very nice player, still surprised that he hasn't become more than he is.

    I like Brewer a lot. I think he's becoming one of the top role-players in the league. At this point in his career he's a very good defender, very good rebounder, good passer and a good ball handler. He can't just can't shoot, and is consequently an inefficient scorer. But once the scoring/shooting clicks - it's improving - he'll become a terrific complimentary player.

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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    2009 -- It's a bit early for this, but Hansbrough's putting up 17 & 10 per-36, including a superstar knack for getting to the line, despite playing at roughly 70% health (a warrior's mentality).
    Well, there's potential and there's reality.

    Per 36 ?? That's like the 250 lb. chick that would be hot if she dropped a buck twenty. Wake me when it happens.

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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    Well, there's potential and there's reality.

    Per 36 ?? That's like the 250 lb. chick that would be hot if she dropped a buck twenty. Wake me when it happens.
    The point is that was the pace Tyler was at when he was playing/producing.

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    Member LoneGranger33's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWill goes triple double

    Terrence Williams played much better against us this time around, and it's hard to argue he had a worse game than Tyler - but Tyler certainly looked sharper last night. I just wish we had more games to judge Tyler on.

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