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Thread: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    DD... its no mirage. The mirage is that he is only an effective basketball player when he scores 20+ points. I would argue there are plenty of games where he scores 10 points and is our most effective player. Do you want stats? Troy Murphy gives you that. I want a person who plays team basketball and that is Brandon Rush. I wish Danny Granger played more of a team game, but everybody says Granger is our best player because he can score. Well Brandon is better on the defensive end of the court, so what. Nobody pays attention to defense or post entry passing. Nobody pays attention to the cutter who never receives a decent pass. Everybody pays attention to the player in isolation at the top of the key or just wide of the elbow and can break his man down on offense. I will have to give Carmelo Anthony a TON of credit. He is so vastly improved defensively that he has become an MVP caliber player. Granger needs to work on his defense. He needs to get stronger. Brandon needs to work on finishing and his flow with other players (in a new offense). Brandon could use some work on his isolation offense, something in his game that he is capable of but not accustomed to. If you remember that was a big thing Granger worked on between years 2 and 3 for him. Brandon is an excellent BASKETBALL player. Are there things the young guy can work on, OF COURSE.

    PS- All-Stars are players that are top twenty scorers. All-Stars are Allen Iverson who is well past his prime and every Rockets player because the entire country of China is a Rockets fan. Shaq will be an All-Star until he is done with the game. An All-Star nod means nothing. The better the team, the more the "All-Star" accolades are. It is a popularity contest, not basketball. I want the Pacers to have All-Star players because the team developed into a great team, not because we went out and acquired an "All-Star" (although it might help attendance in the short-term).

  2. #27
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    Nice article

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    I will totally agree that Danny Granger has regressed the last 2 years and its not only injury related. His defense is worse now then when he entered the NBA , he settles for far too many 3 pointers.

    In B. Rush's case I don't expect 20 ppg but I do expect more in the 14-15 ppgrange from our sg. His defense is the best on the team no doubt , sorry D. Jones' D is far over rated.

    But as I said if we get pick 2 in the draft I'd still take Evan Turner and shop Rush.

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    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    If the Pacers somehow get the #2 pick in this years draft I still take Evan Turner , then see what I can get for Brandon Rush in a trade.
    No way would I do that at this point. I think Rush is gearing up to be an excellent "first wing off the bench on a title contending team."

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    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    I said see what I can get for Rush , if its not something I feel improves the team I keep Rush .

    As for Danny when he entered the league , he was praised for his defense and toughness inside and needed to work on his range on his shot. Personally I'd like to see Danny revert to that type player with his improved range. I'd much rather see him as a 18-20 ppg scorer shooting 47% to the 23 ppg 41% shooter we see now. Danny should get 8-10 rebounds a night on average , he is far to skilled overall to settle for 6 reb. a night and poor defense. He is in no way maximizing his ability , remember how he wanted to pattern his defense after Artest when he worked with Ron as a Rookie? What happened to that attitude?

    As is obvious I'm not a big B. Rush fan but I will give him credit that he plays with more effort on defense and goes after rebounds far better than Granger does at this point.

    IF we lucked into Turner , he could prob play a few minutes at the point each night , allowing the Pacers to use Rush, Granger and him in the lineup at the same time.

    The fact Rush will be 25 entering only his 3rd season in 2010-11 , makes me question if he has that much of an upside ? what we see now may be the best we see from him.

    Like Hansbrough , Rush was seen a safe pick with limited upside , so I guess my expectations are not as bright on their futures as most on here.

    But as a Pacer fan since their very first ABA game , I always hope for the best .

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    Yeah, I'm a Pacers fan. MyFavMartin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    Exactly. Brandon will come out blazing next year.
    We heard that last year.

    He can be good or great, but he's inconsistent. That's why he was on the trading block and could still be moved this summer.

    He's got talent. He needs to have that switch flipped on every game that Kravitz was talking about.

    Hell, post that quote above his locker or have a light switch tattooed on his right hand... anything to keep him motivated and being aggressive.

    I imagine he could be a heck of a player for Larry Brown, but why can't we get a coach for the Pacers to see our players flourish here and win games?

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  8. #32
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    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    I'm not sold on the "youth = upside" argument. The biggest reason that we see so much improvement from very young players is because they weren't NBA ready when they were drafted and basically sucked for the first few years. To a certain extent I can understand this can be the case, but I find it irritating that it's always assumed that a junior or senior in college can't learn more and get significantly better over time because they didn't come to the NBA when they are 18 or 19 years old. I actually have more confidence that someone with a good work ethic like Hibbert will improve than your average early entry into the NBA Draft. Many of those youngsters will be complete washouts.
    Last edited by IndyPacer; 03-12-2010 at 04:21 AM.

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  10. #33

    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    I like Rush. Good role-player. He needs to be more consistent with his work-rate and more engaged with the game. Should work on a floater, teardrop, something to help him to score over defenders and in the midrange. Trying to transform him into an All-Star, or a primary/secondary scorer, I think it'd hurt him more than help. I don't see that kind of shot-creation talent in him.

    Let role-players be role-players.

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  12. #34

    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by iPACER View Post
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    We heard that last year.

    He can be good or great, but he's inconsistent. That's why he was on the trading block and could still be moved this summer.

    And you will hear it again by those wearing rose colored glasses.

    Too many see the potential but ignore the inconsistancy of Rush's game.

    And yes, there is a reason why Rush was offered to Charlotte, and it just wasn't sweetner to get rid of Ford. I expect to see that trade happen by Charlotte b4 next season for numerous reasons.

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    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by cordobes View Post
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    Let role-players be role-players.


    BUT that's the problem, too many see him as more than a role player. The Robin to Batman when he's really no more than Batman's faithful family servant.

  14. #36

    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    What happened to that attitude?


    Like Hansbrough , Rush was seen a safe pick with limited upside , so I guess my expectations are not as bright on their futures as most on here.

    Too much Jim O'Stubborn.


    That makes 2 of us. Both in my view are nothing more than role players.

  15. #37

    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Blink View Post
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    Perhaps they're happy we didn't trade him for Charlotte's table scraps?

    Table scraps? I guess you don't follow other teams daily. If you did, you would have noticed Augustin is playing like last year of late. You know like Rush has started. PG position is more important than a dime a dozen SG. Oh yeah, Rush will be different next year just like Cubbie and IU fans say "just wait until next year." Next year will come and go with nothing changed.

    I'd like to see that trade come to fruition right prior to the draft.

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    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Table scraps? I guess you don't follow other teams daily. If you did, you would have noticed Augustin is playing like last year of late. You know like Rush has started. PG position is more important than a dime a dozen SG. Oh yeah, Rush will be different next year just like Cubbie and IU fans say "just wait until next year." Next year will come and go with nothing changed.

    I'd like to see that trade come to fruition right prior to the draft.
    I tend to agree with you JT. I would love Henderson and Augustin in Pacers Uniforms. However Im not quite as estranged with Rush as you seem to be.....despite his offensive inconsistencies the guy is an absolute beast in defense......do you think Charlotte revisits that trade with us and swaps 1st @ 2nd rounders with us instead of getting Rush ? If so would you do it ?

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    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    I love Rush's game. I have said this. I do not however overvalue what he is, although it may seem to the contrary. I think a role player can be your second best player. I think that every basketball player has a "role" on the floor. I see Rush in a very similar light to what Robert Horry and Joe Dumars were. They fit a role on the team and they made the players around them better by being so good at adapting to the game and the players around them. Rush is not a primary scorer. That's not his role. There are more dime a dozen players in this league who do nothing but score and make the players around them irrelevant.

    I would call Rajon Rondo and Kendrick Perkins "role players". They fit their roles perfectly for the Big Three. If the Celtics didn't have three primary players as good as they are, Rondo and Perkins wouldn't be nearly as good as role players. Rondo and Perkins may adapt into primary players once Ray, PP, and KG are gone, but they are not now.

    Rush would be a completely different player if he was on the Spurs. He would be so good on that team as a "role player" that people would view him differently. The guy has skills and sees the game well. He is the kind of veteran that plays for a championship caliber team. He is NOT a "superstar", but he doesn't have the ego of a purported superstar. The last "superstar" we had got paid like one and acted like a fourth grader. He was a detriment to this team because of attitude issues, being paid so much, and his selfish play. Rush epitomizes everything that player was NOT, but I would not say Rush is a more talented basketball player.

    As for the trade, DJ Augustin is the key to it. How good is he defensively? He seems extremely undersized but sees the floor well when controlling the ball. I know he is an exceptional passer, but is that only in transition? Is he TJ Ford Jr. and we will be dealing with the same issues? I wouldn't swap Rush for Henderson straight up, but that's my opinion. Is Augustin any better than Price? We are past the draft so that is a legitimate question now. I do not value Nazr Mohammed, unless we end up trading away Murphy or Foster. I think this trade DOES happen though (unfortunately IMO).

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    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    If the Pacers somehow get the #2 pick in this years draft I still take Evan Turner , then see what I can get for Brandon Rush in a trade.


    If we drafted Turner Rush would make an ideal sixth man who can play the 2 or the 3. I woulden't trade him at all.
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    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    Just for comparison's sake.

    AJ PRICE: 14 MPG - 6.7 points, 1.6 boards, 1.7 assists, 40% FGP, 33% 3P

    DJ AUGUSTIN: 18 MPG - 6.2 points, 1.1 boards, 2.3 assists, 36% FGP, 36% 3P

    Price has put up similar stats in less minutes as a rookie than Augustin, who is in his second year. Did I mention Price also has better size than the barely 6 foot Augustin?

    I really hope we don't revisit that trade, I would hate to give up Rush and I don't think Augustin improves this team at all.
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

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  21. #42
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    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    Just for comparison's sake.

    AJ PRICE: 14 MPG - 6.7 points, 1.6 boards, 1.7 assists, 40% FGP, 33% 3P

    DJ AUGUSTIN: 18 MPG - 6.2 points, 1.1 boards, 2.3 assists, 36% FGP, 36% 3P

    Price has put up similar stats in less minutes as a rookie than Augustin, who is in his second year. Did I mention Price also has better size than the barely 6 foot Augustin?

    I really hope we don't revisit that trade, I would hate to give up Rush and I don't think Augustin improves this team at all.
    Thanked twice, since I don't follow other teams daily .

  22. #43

    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    Just for comparison's sake.

    AJ PRICE: 14 MPG - 6.7 points, 1.6 boards, 1.7 assists, 40% FGP, 33% 3P

    DJ AUGUSTIN: 18 MPG - 6.2 points, 1.1 boards, 2.3 assists, 36% FGP, 36% 3P

    Price has put up similar stats in less minutes as a rookie than Augustin, who is in his second year. Did I mention Price also has better size than the barely 6 foot Augustin?

    I really hope we don't revisit that trade, I would hate to give up Rush and I don't think Augustin improves this team at all.

    The trade wasn't Rush for Augustin, but a 5 player trade that included Bobcats Henderson & Nazr and Pacers TJ Ford.

    I'd take those table scraps as they have been referred to as over some the scraps the Pacers have on their roster at the present. Those table scraps are playing for a team in the playoff hunt. How's the Pacers doing with Rush and Ford? Oh yeah, 4th worst record in the NBA with Rush and Ford as starters.

  23. #44

    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    And you will hear it again by those wearing rose colored glasses.

    Too many see the potential but ignore the inconsistancy of Rush's game.

    And yes, there is a reason why Rush was offered to Charlotte, and it just wasn't sweetner to get rid of Ford. I expect to see that trade happen by Charlotte b4 next season for numerous reasons.
    Dude you obviously need to take your offense colored glasses off. You are just showing your totally ignorance to the bigger picture. Offense looks good defense wins championship. You are consistent in calling our best one on one defender "inconsistent." You are seeing a Rush who probably feels like he doesn't need to score because you have Granger and Murphy throwing up 30 junk shots a night.

  24. #45

    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Wylder1324 View Post
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    I tend to agree with you JT. I would love Henderson and Augustin in Pacers Uniforms. However Im not quite as estranged with Rush as you seem to be.....despite his offensive inconsistencies the guy is an absolute beast in defense......do you think Charlotte revisits that trade with us and swaps 1st @ 2nd rounders with us instead of getting Rush ? If so would you do it ?

    Yes, I think the trade will be revisited. Felton is a FA, and I don't see Charlotte wanting to sign him to a 4-5 year contract at a big increase over his 5.5 mil salary this season. They can take Ford with his expiring for a year, and look for a better option than Felton.

    I believe Rush is Brown's type player, and would play well in Brown's system.

    This trade doesn't excite me to the point where I'd swap 1sts with Charlotte, unless the Pacers end the season with the 9-10 instead of the 4-7. Although if Tyrus Thomas was included instead of Nazr, I might have to re-think it.

  25. #46

    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    The trade wasn't Rush for Augustin, but a 5 player trade that included Bobcats Henderson & Nazr and Pacers TJ Ford.

    I'd take those table scraps as they have been referred to as over some the scraps the Pacers have on their roster at the present. Those table scraps are playing for a team in the playoff hunt. How's the Pacers doing with Rush and Ford? Oh yeah, 4th worst record in the NBA with Rush and Ford as starters.
    Laughable, just down right laughable. If you really think Henderson and Nazr would make us a better team then I need some of what you are smoking.Oh what we win 5 more games this year because we fill in a needed big man role? Oh then we ruin our draft position again.

    I bet if you put Rush and Ford on Charlotte they are probably not just in the playoff hunt, they are probably in it.

    Our problem has more to do with coaching and less to do with talent. Im sick of hearing we are the least talented team in the NBA. There couldnt be a bigger misconception out of there.

    Some people around here really need to get their head out of the sand...

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  27. #47

    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    I'd prefer to just leave Rush and Henderson out of the trade all together.

    I like the idea of a DJ/AJ point rotation. I think they'd push each other, because both would see opportunities to be a starter. They'd be really cheap. And if JOB was here, he'd be forced to play them.

  28. #48
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    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I'd prefer to just leave Rush and Henderson out of the trade all together.

    I like the idea of a DJ/AJ point rotation. I think they'd push each other, because both would see opportunities to be a starter. They'd be really cheap. And if JOB was here, he'd be forced to play them.
    Sookie. I think you are right on. I think we probably offered Charlotte Ford for Augustin with Nazr to make salaries work. They said that they wouldn't get rid of Augustin unless they get back Rush. We said no, unless you throw in Henderson too.

    I personally don't like the deal. I think Ford is a more effective veteran than Mohammed. I don't care for Henderson as much as some. I have a high opinion of Seth's evaluation of players. There are a few that we disagree on. Henderson is one. I think he is a decent player with NBA athleticism and a game more suitable to the NBA yes, but I just don't think his game translates as well as he does. I think he is a little more polished version of DJones.

    Augustin I really like as a PG, but I kind of think the opposite with him. He has a game that translates better to the college game than the NBA game. I think he is too undersized, but he has seemingly worked on his shooting and he gets into the lane fairly well. I just think his career path rivals Ford. High upside early on, then everybody realizes he can play, but is more suited in a role as a backup.

    This trade to me is one starting SG with great defense and one savvy veteran scoring guard off the bench for a backup PG who can push in transition, a backup SG who plays good defense, and a big man on the decline who is solid defensively. I just see that as a downgrade even though we get an extra young player. I too would do Nazr and Augustin for Ford, even if we threw in our second round pick. It would work out evenly salary-wise as well once you add in the second rounder.

  29. #49
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    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    I think that trade was pretty much Ford for Augustin and Nazr and then Rush for Henderson.

    I wouldn't mind visiting the first part of Ford for Augustin and Nazr, gives us a young PG, and gets rid of one that has made 8mil sitting the bench for half the season. it also gives us a veteran big behind Hibbert in case Foster's back continues to be a problem.

    Augustin and Price isn't a bad PG/duo and you can also try to get another one in the 2nd round either early or late to be the 3rd PG

    If the Pacers can land Evan Turner, and then make that trade happen.

    PG: Augustin, Price, ?
    SG: Turner, Rush
    SF: Granger, Dahntay, Dunleavy
    PF: Murphy, Hansbrough, McRoberts
    C: Hibbert, Foster, Nazr, Solo

    That 14 spots, and 2 2nd rounders still, as well and Dunleavy, Murph, Foster and Solo's expiring. Should be a interesting summer, to bad we're still a couple months away

  30. #50

    Default Re: Teammates revel in Rush's improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    Dude you obviously need to take your offense colored glasses off. You are just showing your totally ignorance to the bigger picture. Offense looks good defense wins championship. You are consistent in calling our best one on one defender "inconsistent." You are seeing a Rush who probably feels like he doesn't need to score because you have Granger and Murphy throwing up 30 junk shots a night.


    DUDE???

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