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Darren Collison gets 20 assists!

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  • #16
    Re: Darren Collison gets 20 assists!

    We could offer every great/good asset we have and they still would not trade us CP3. Not never.
    You Got The Tony!!!!!!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Darren Collison gets 20 assists!

      Originally posted by nerveghost View Post
      Wow! I should be a GM - amazingly, I'm able to find a better player later than the Pacers pick EVERY SINGLE YEAR! Obviously, I'm a better evaluater of talent than Donnie Walsh, Larry Bird and the Pacer scout team combined - the evidence speaks for itself, right?

      Tayshaun Prince in 2002 (Fred Jones)
      Kyle Korver in 2003 (James Jones)
      Trevor Ariza in 2004 (David Harrison)
      Andray Blatche in 2005 (Erazem Lorbeck)
      Rajon Rondo in 2006 (Shawn Williams)
      Everybody in 2007 (no pick)
      Anthony Randolph in 2008 (Brandon Rush)
      Darren Collison in 2009 (Tyler Hansbrough)

      ...or then again, maybe the draft isn't that easy? Maybe no matter how good your scout team is, maybe it is hard to make the perfect pick every time? Let me see...

      Hmm...the Phoenix Suns drafted Casey Jacobsen in 2002 at #22 instead of Prince.
      Then in 2003, they took Zarko Cabarka over David West and Josh Howard. Why would a perennial playoff team make such an obvious gaff?

      Hmm...then the Suns took Jackson Vroman over Ariza in 2004. Surely the Suns are still suffering from their fateful draft failures...I'll have to check their win/loss numbers tomorrow, but I'm sure their season must be in the crapper.

      Thank goodness East powerhouse Orlando took Fran Vazquez at #11 instead of Danny Granger. Who else went before Granger? Yaraslav Korolev...Sean May...Rashad McCants...Antoine Wright....Joey Graham....I guess we can't take credit for the Granger pick - he just fell in our laps. We HAD to take him, right? The Pacers must have just got lucky...

      Ah...2006. The year of Shawn Williams. A man of unlimited potential...and as it turned out...unlimited stupidity. Well, we probably could have taken a flyer on Rondo at 21. Or we could have taken Olexsiy Pecherov, Quincy Douby, Marcus Williams, Maurice Ager, Mardy Collins, or Joel Freeland. I mean, hey, why swing for the fences with a pick like Shawn Williams, when you could play it safe and draft Josh Boone?

      If only we picked in 2007 - we could have had Greg Oden at #1, right? He is a lead pipe lock at #1. Our fellow cellar-dwellars, the Suns, took Alando Tucker over Carl Landry, Marc Gasol and Ramon Sessions.

      And so on...

      Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go make an offering of KFC chicken wings to my Sam Bowie shrine. I like Bowie very much, but he no help with curve ball.
      Can I get a post of the year nomination form please?

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Darren Collison gets 20 assists!

        Nerveghost,

        If Cerrano read that post he would say, "That post was beautiful."
        Passion. Pride. Patience. Pacers

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Darren Collison gets 20 assists!

          Couple of things, I'd say Charlotte has better finishers and a system condusive to the PG getting a bunch of assists. The Pacers have decent/streaky scorers, average at best finishers (I'd say way below actually), and a system completely devoid almost of PG assist opportunities.

          I'm not knocking Collision, just saying he'd never put those numbers up on this Pacers team, I'm not sure any PG could.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Darren Collison gets 20 assists!

            It sucks seeing Collison playing so well and knowing we passed on him. The thing is you look at where Collison is developing and then look at the Pacers team environment and it is like night and day. With the Hornets Collison gets to learn from the best point guard in the league.

            Here at the Pacers he would have learned from a me first player like TJ and a solid role player like Watson.

            The environment the player is developing in has a lot to do with their overall development as a player. So I am not going to sit here and rake Bird over the fire with passing on Collison.

            I will still harbor some bitterness over passing on Lawson.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Darren Collison gets 20 assists!

              Originally posted by Speed View Post
              Couple of things, I'd say Charlotte has better finishers and a system condusive to the PG getting a bunch of assists. The Pacers have decent/streaky scorers, average at best finishers (I'd say way below actually), and a system completely devoid almost of PG assist opportunities.

              I'm not knocking Collision, just saying he'd never put those numbers up on this Pacers team, I'm not sure any PG could.
              Not to mention, the kid would only get 15 mpg during the month of january, then be told that he "locked up a spot in the team's future, so there is no need to play him much more during the rest of the season."

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Darren Collison gets 20 assists!

                Originally posted by Speed View Post
                Couple of things, I'd say Charlotte has better finishers and a system condusive to the PG getting a bunch of assists. The Pacers have decent/streaky scorers, average at best finishers (I'd say way below actually), and a system completely devoid almost of PG assist opportunities.

                I'm not knocking Collision, just saying he'd never put those numbers up on this Pacers team, I'm not sure any PG could.
                I believe you mean New Orleans

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Darren Collison gets 20 assists!

                  Thank you all -

                  the simple fact is this, if the Pacers had drafted each of the players I mentioned above over our original choice - they *still* wouldn't be contenders, and may barely be a playoff team. So to harp over missed opportunities is pointless and just depressing in general.

                  Playoff dreams are born with top 5 draft picks, and even then you have to keep your fingers crossed.

                  That is why I pray to Bowie this year - somebody get him a refill.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Darren Collison gets 20 assists!

                    Originally posted by AesopRockOn View Post
                    We could offer every great/good asset we have and they still would not trade us CP3. Not never.
                    wrong.

                    The Hornets should trade paul because of how good collison is. trade him for an up and comer along with a draft pick, and right there you have the makings of a very young talented team. Not to mention that they save tons of money by not having to pay cp3 a max contract.

                    just wait and see, he will be traded

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Darren Collison gets 20 assists!

                      I watched that game, the kid is going to be good/great!
                      Avatar photo credit: Bahram Mark Sobhani - AP

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Darren Collison gets 20 assists!

                        Originally posted by Speed View Post
                        Couple of things, I'd say Charlotte has better finishers and a system condusive to the PG getting a bunch of assists. The Pacers have decent/streaky scorers, average at best finishers (I'd say way below actually), and a system completely devoid almost of PG assist opportunities.

                        I'm not knocking Collision, just saying he'd never put those numbers up on this Pacers team, I'm not sure any PG could.
                        I fully agree. The Hornets PGs shoulder a lot of the playmaking responsibilities + Collison keeps the ball on his hands for very long stretches during possessions, surveying shots for his teammates.

                        Originally posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
                        Is he still rocking that 2:1 assist to turnover ratio (just slightly worse than our own Earl Watson and not too much better than T.J. Ford)? I still can't believe they scored so many points on the Warriors.

                        I'll admit, I'm not watching his games, but the stats aren't that great if you consider TOs too.
                        Yeah, he's good in games, but far from great.

                        Yesterday they barely beat a bunch of D-Leaguers+undrafted guys+Curry+Devean George.

                        Originally posted by IUfan4life View Post
                        wrong.

                        The Hornets should trade paul because of how good collison is. trade him for an up and comer along with a draft pick, and right there you have the makings of a very young talented team. Not to mention that they save tons of money by not having to pay cp3 a max contract.

                        just wait and see, he will be traded
                        No he won't. You don't trade a player like Chris Paul, a MVP contender, a guy who's widely regarded as the best PG because you have a solid starter like Collison to replace him.

                        When you get a player as gifted as Chris Paul you treasure him. You build your franchise around him. You do not under any circumstances trade him without getting a top five talent of similar or younger age back in return.

                        Talents like Paul go a long way in making you legit contenders for championships. Collison isn't even a top-5 PG in his own draft down the road. I'm not even sure if he's the best rookie in New Orleans.

                        And you'd trade Paul because of him? C'mon. That's almost like trading LeBron James because you just drafted Richard Jefferson.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Darren Collison gets 20 assists!

                          Originally posted by bhaas0532 View Post
                          nice conspiracy theory up there.

                          I don't care how he got it, 20 assits or even 15. Still impressive for a rookie that we missed on. It just kind of gets to me that everyone knew before the draft that we needed a PG. This nonsense about how "nobody thought Collison was going be that good" is crap. New Orleans did their homework and drafted him. Our scouting department should have been more thorough.
                          Seems you have a problem with the scouting department of this organization. Keep in mind Tyler Hansbrough will be averaging double digits in points and getting to the free throw line 500 times next year. Hibbert was picked 17th and while never having the distinct honor to play in the Schcick Rookie/Soph challenge is getting better by the day. He's post game has vastly improved. He is starting to develop Go To moves. Brandon Rush is not a bad player either. He just does not get headlines. That is not his game.

                          Darren Collison would not ever get a scratch of playing time under JOB. He likes bigger guards that are defensive. Collison is small and quick. We saw Rush have a good game w/o Danny you did not crown him. U seem to always have 20/20 hindsight vision via draft. Odds are you are going to change your mind come next week if Ty Lawson has more hilights on ESPN that morning. Bird would have went with Lawson.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Darren Collison gets 20 assists!

                            Brandon Rush does have his moments, and I think that he will be an average rotation guy in the NBA. He will never be an all-star, but he never was really supposed to be all that when we drafted him. I don't really have a problem with us drafting Rush. I may have ripped him in previous posts, but I can admit that maybe I was wrong about my evaluation of him.

                            I do have a problem with us ignoring a PG for years. We haven't drafted a true starting PG since Jamaal Tinsley way back in 2001. I don't consider Price a starter in this league. I get the whole "safe pick" thing with Hansbrough, but passing on PG's year after year has really contributed to this franchise's demise. I mean Collison was an absolute stud at UCLA. He played in 3 final fours, and was an experienced guy coming out of college.

                            I also am not buying "everybody else passed on him, so scouting shouldn't be blamed" either. Collision was drafted number 21 in the first round, so obviously several teams missed, but it wasn't like he fell into the second round. We had a chance to draft a starting PG, whom we all saw heavily in college, and we blew it.
                            Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Darren Collison gets 20 assists!

                              Originally posted by bhaas0532 View Post
                              I also am not buying "everybody else passed on him, so scouting shouldn't be blamed" either. Collision was drafted number 21 in the first round, so obviously several teams missed, but it wasn't like he fell into the second round. We had a chance to draft a starting PG, whom we all saw heavily in college, and we blew it.
                              I have to say that this was just one incredible crop of PGs in this draft. I've never seen anything like it. Evans is really just a ball dominant SG, but even then you've got Curry, Flynn, Jennings, Lawson, Holiday and Collison. And that's not even counting Rubio.

                              So you could very well have 7 future starters at PG from this draft. That's unreal. Collison is showing game he never did at UCLA. He's much stronger than he looks and can get into the lane almost anytime. Curry has surprised everyone by just being a PG, period. Most (including myself) saw him as another Ben Gordon undersized SG.

                              Even then, though, most non-elite PG prospects are a crap shoot. See guys like Will Avery and Acie Law. Even Raymond Felton. You don't know what you'll get from these guys. So I wouldn't have known what to get from Lawson or Collison, truthfully.

                              So I can't really pin blame on the Pacers, but at the same time, it's kind of tough saying that you passed on 3 PGs who will very likely be eventual be starters.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Darren Collison gets 20 assists!

                                Originally posted by d_c View Post
                                ...but at the same time, it's kind of tough saying that you passed on 3 PGs who will very likely be eventual be starters.
                                Not as tough as saying you passed on Durant to draft Oden. Or drafted Darko instead of Bosh, Wade or Melo. Or ended up with Sam Bowie instead of Jordan. I mean, if we're gonna play the hindsight is 20/20 game with the draft, we should at least bring up the truly horrible examples instead of complaining about players who might(or might not) turn into starters at PG.

                                Anyway, I'm not going to be upset with anythign until we find out what we really have in Tyler. If he comes in and is able to play like a wrecking crew like he did at UNC I would be pretty happy with that. That would take some of the sting out.
                                Last edited by travmil; 03-11-2010, 12:27 PM.

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