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Thread: Tales of woe all too well

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    Default Tales of woe all too well

    http://www.nba.com/2010/news/feature...s=iref:nbahpt1

    3. INDIANA PACERS

    CURRENTLY: 20-43, fifth place, Central, 28.5 games behind Cleveland

    HOW THEY GOT HERE: Traded Jermaine O'Neal to Toronto for G T.J. Ford in 2008; traded 2008 first-round pick (Jerryd Bayless) and F Ike Diogu to Portland for G Jarrett Jack and F Josh McRoberts; long-term injuries to F Mike Dunleavy; losing Jack to Toronto via free agency in 2009

    GROWTH OPPORTUNITIES: F Danny Granger, second-year C Roy Hibbert, rookie F Tyler Hansbrough, 2011 cap room

    It's not that trading the oft-injured O'Neal was wrong, but the Pacers did so believing that Ford was going to be the long-term solution, and that Jack would be his backup. Because of that, the Pacers felt comfortable letting Jamaal Tinsley sit out the last two months of the 2008 season after several transgressions, and reached a buyout settlement with him last summer. But Ford never won over coach Jim O'Brien, and quickly fell out of favor (he's only played in 44 games this season). Ford was so unhappy this season and was reportedly doing a dance in front of teammates at the trade deadline when Indiana got close to dealing him to Charlotte for D.J. Augustin. And the Pacers wouldn't match the four-year, $20 million offer sheet the Raptors put on Jack, leaving them back at square one -- no point guard.

    Long-term injuries to Dunleavy, veteran center Jeff Foster and others have also put Indiana behind the eight ball. Which is why the Pacers are trying to preach patience with their fans.

    Like Milwaukee, Indiana is looking to 2011 as the year it can be a free-agent player, in a much less crowded field. The Pacers will rid themselves of $40 million in combined salaries (Troy Murphy, Dunleavy, Jeff Foster, Solomon Jones and Ford) that summer, with only Granger and guards Dahntay Jones and A.J. Price under non-option contracts. Some of the Pacers' potential room may get tied up in extensions for Hansbrough and Hibbert, but Indy will still have plenty of space to make a deal.

    Even though co-owner Mel Simon died last year, the family is still running the show, and continuity is one of the hallmarks of Indiana's ownership. Team president Larry Bird has the job for as long as he wants, recently receiving a strong vote of confidence from Pacers Sports and Entertainment president Jim Morris (and Morris, being a smart man, I'm sure, knows that saying anything less about Mr. Bird would be folly.)

    OUTLOOK: Expect the Pacers to do whatever they have to this summer to try to land Augustin from Charlotte. If that doesn't happen, Indiana has enough enticing parts to find the point guard it needs. (And doesn't Minnesota have, like, eight point guards on its roster?) That should be the only thing on GM David Morway's to-do list.

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    Augustin sounds like a good pick-up.

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    I don't know if Augustin really has any upside, and might be a defensive liability. I would be more interested in a guy like Collison from the hornets. They might look to see what they can get for him after CP3 returns, that team needs to make a move.
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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Augustin sounds like a good pick-up.
    I like this as well. We can't count on landing the #1 this year which means we'll most likely get Favors or Cousins. What do you think we'd have to give up for Augustin?

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    Well we almost got him AND henderson for Rush and Ford, if that tells you anything about his value.
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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    Quote Originally Posted by ToasterBusVIP View Post
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    I like this as well. We can't count on landing the #1 this year which means we'll most likely get Favors or Cousins. What do you think we'd have to give up for Augustin?
    At least TJ Ford. It will be a multi-player deal, and like the one thrown out there before the deadline, I wouldn't be surprised if Rush were involved.

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    I would like to get Augustin without giving up any of our future guys. Specifically Brandon.

    As for Minnesota, I would think the only PG they would look to give up is Ramon Sessions.
    Last edited by Trophy; 03-08-2010 at 04:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    Quote Originally Posted by ToasterBusVIP View Post
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    I like this as well. We can't count on landing the #1 this year which means we'll most likely get Favors or Cousins. What do you think we'd have to give up for Augustin?
    It doesn't look like we're going to draft a PG depending on this reading.

    We'd probably try to move Ford for him again.

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Augustin sounds like a good pick-up.
    He's played rather well lately.

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    He's played rather well lately.
    I couldn't agree more, which in that case means it may be harder than it seems to pry him away from Charlotte.

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    I didn't realize this.....but another option that I didn't consider is a S&T of Felton+GHenderson for Ford+BRush.

    One way or another....we'd have to get a PG for the immediate future. Unless we end up Wall or Evans....I can see this as a viable option.
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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    He's played rather well lately.

    You noticed too.

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    Devin Harris, if NJ lands the #1 pick?

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    Even though co-owner Mel Simon died last year, the family is still running the show, and continuity is one of the hallmarks of Indiana's ownership. Team president Larry Bird has the job for as long as he wants, recently receiving a strong vote of confidence from Pacers Sports and Entertainment president Jim Morris (and Morris, being a smart man, I'm sure, knows that saying anything less about Mr. Bird would be folly.)
    I fail to see how anyone with the record of progress Bird and Co. has made gets a "strong vote of confidence" ?


    Simply mindblowing. If this was a true "Corporation" he would have never lasted that long
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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I didn't realize this.....but another option that I didn't consider is a S&T of Felton+GHenderson for Ford+BRush.

    One way or another....we'd have to get a PG for the immediate future. Unless we end up Wall or Evans....I can see this as a viable option.

    Felton is in the currently in his last year of his contract(FA) at 5.5 mil. Ford is at 8.5 mil. I don't want to do a S&T for Felton at anywhere near Ford's salary for the next 4 years. I'd rather do the original trade.

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    I'm not so sure that D.J. Augustin is the answer for us. Maybe defensively he could be a great guard, but I don't know about being our starting PG offensively. I don't see him being a 20 PPG + 8 APG PG that we dream of having (with very few turnovers I should add). I think he'd be a fine backup for us to have, but I guess I'm just really hoping A.J. Price becomes a sensational starting PG for us, so then it would definitely be nice to have a star starting PG in Price and a backup PG in Augustin. I really don't think that this is too far-fetched, but who knows what the reality of it could be as A.J. needs experience NOW and our coach is not very willing of that to happen and I have no idea why except that the fact is he is a horrible coach who should have been fired a long time ago.

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I didn't realize this.....but another option that I didn't consider is a S&T of Felton+GHenderson for Ford+BRush.

    One way or another....we'd have to get a PG for the immediate future. Unless we end up Wall or Evans....I can see this as a viable option.
    Glad you brought this up. I know I'm not alone here (Dr. Awesome has made this point several times), but I think Felton would be a fantastic addition to our team. I'd prefer him over Augustin all day. It would be gravy if we hit a stroke of luck for a change and got Evan Turner in the draft. Felton would be perfect next to him. I think a foundation of Hibbert-Whoever-Granger-Turner-Felton would be a really nice start for this team, and I think it would be a playoff team in the East as well. Ah, we can dream...

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Glad you brought this up. I know I'm not alone here (Dr. Awesome has made this point several times), but I think Felton would be a fantastic addition to our team. I'd prefer him over Augustin all day. It would be gravy if we hit a stroke of luck for a change and got Evan Turner in the draft. Felton would be perfect next to him. I think a foundation of Hibbert-Whoever-Granger-Turner-Felton would be a really nice start for this team, and I think it would be a playoff team in the East as well. Ah, we can dream...
    That lineup really intrigues me surprisingly...I think Felton can be that solid PG on both ends of the court that makes you get wins...maybe not the best statistics in the league, but a super solid PG that can lead the team's charge. Plus like our oldest players for the future (Felton & Granger) would still be relatively young as both of them were drafted in '05.

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    I'm pretty sure we got Rush in the deal for Bayless as well. Otherwise, who in the hell would give up a 1st for Jarrett Jack?

    And I don't care what anyone says, the second Jermaine was gone, the second we became a better team.
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    I'd like to do a straight TJ/DJ swap, if that was possible..I'm not sure how it works salary wise, if you have an expiring. Because I don't want to give up Brandon, either.

    Indiana would then have two good young cheap point guards, battling for playing time and the starting position.

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I'd like to do a straight TJ/DJ swap, if that was possible..I'm not sure how it works salary wise, if you have an expiring. Because I don't want to give up Brandon, either.

    Indiana would then have two good young cheap point guards, battling for playing time and the starting position.
    DJ is very similar to Jarrett Jack IMO. I'd hate to give up Brandon because DJ and him can really be a good guard lineup. I think Brandon would become more consistent and better shooting and scoring if we get DJ to play next to him.

    I don't think those salaries equal out. I don't know why Brandon has to be the answer to be the player who has to be traded. I'd rather get DJ and DeSagana Diop for Ford only than move Brandon. Diop and Solo can battle out minutes behind Roy at center if Jeff doesn't return next season.

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    no reason we couldn't flip New Orleans an expiring contract for Collison. Thats the most likely move, dude is already showing that he is better than DJ, and Felton.

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    no reason we couldn't flip New Orleans an expiring contract for Collison. Thats the most likely move, dude is already showing that he is better than DJ, and Felton.
    We would all love that, but why would the Hornets do that? They can get more for him than that, easily. If we wanted Collison, I assume we would have to throw Murphy and Rush their way, and take back an unsightly contract (Okafor or god forbid Peja) with DC.

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    I wouldn't mind DJ Augustin, I like him coming out of the draft, and I think he could excel with a fresh opportunity. He's a young player, and Larry Brown hasn't really given him much of a lease to make mistakes.

    I actually wouldn't mind the Felton idea either, Felton has always intrigued me. Didn't like the pick coming out of the draft, but he can score, play defense and pass as well.

    Those who are hoping for Collison, not happening. He's a great insurance policy for Paul right now, will be a solid backup to have, and he's not making much money. If he is traded for ANY reason, expect a great player to be coming back to the Hornets, or a big contract from New Orleans going with him.

    As for Devin Harris if the Nets land Wall? I think it would probably take an expiring and our 1st round pick this year. Depending on where our pick is, would depend on if I do the trade. I think you have to make Ford or Dunleavy the expiring and then use the early 2nd round pick very wisely

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    Default Re: Tales of woe all too well

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    We would all love that, but why would the Hornets do that? They can get more for him than that, easily. If we wanted Collison, I assume we would have to throw Murphy and Rush their way, and take back an unsightly contract (Okafor or god forbid Peja) with DC.
    How about TJ/murphy for Collison and Okafor..

    I'd do it in a heart beat..

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