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Thread: WTF? - Wells Blog

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    Default WTF? - Wells Blog

    http://bit.ly/a9oCgQ

    "Our goal is to still try to win every game while also developing our young players," O'Brien said.
    Umm, wow? Did this guy's heart change or what?

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    I don't intend to be disagreeable. But that very thing Jim has been saying for a good portion of the season. (I know most of you don't believe his actions back up his words in this area, but he has been saying this a lot since at least January 1)

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I don't intend to be disagreeable. But that very thing Jim has been saying for a good portion of the season. (I know most of you don't believe his actions back up his words in this area, but he has been saying this a lot since at least January 1)
    The fact that he is doing it now is what baffles me.

  4. #4

    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    I think we just have to accept, as calmly as possible, the fact that Coach O'Brien isn't telling us the truth.

    He says what he says, and he does what he does. But he doesn't do what he says.


    More and more, O'Brien reminds one of Al Haig, the old politician who garbled his public pronouncement in order to make them nonsensical.

    ''Haig, in congressional hearings before his confirmatory, paradoxed his auditioners by abnormalling his responds so that verbs were nouned, nouns verbed, and adjectives adverbised. He techniqued a new way to vocabulary his thoughts so as to informationally uncertain anybody listening about what he had actually implicationed. . . .''
    .
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    O'B: "I'll take Keister Cloaking for $300, Alex."

    Alex: "Our goal is to still try to win every game while also developing our young players,"

    O'B: "What is the absolute truth?"

    Alex: "Incorrect. That will cost you $300. Anyone else?"

    O'B (Stunned that Alex Trebek would doubt him, reacts angrily): "Wait just a minute! I think we need another ruling on this question and its relevancy! I did what the category and answer called for, and I phrased it in the form of a question!"

    Alex: "Judges?...We will be reviewing this, and be back with the results after a word from our sponsors...please stay with us."

    Alex (after the commercial break): "My apologies to you, Mr. O'Brien, your question was indeed an appropriate example of keister cloaking, and under the category, your answer is also correct. Congratulations, we will now reverse the previous ruling and add $600 to your total."

    O'B (after, at the end of the show he comes in third after blowing a question regarding the fundamentals of basketball): "What about the question of relevancy?"

    Alex: "Your play during this game, while it has been praiseworthy at points, is irrelevant because it did not come in a winning effort."

    O'B: "Will I be allowed back on the show?"

    Alex: "As long as you are able, in the interim, to convince us with play at this level in a winning effort while actually on this show."

    O'B: "But, that is not possible. I win almost every game we play during rehearsal for the show. You know I can play this game and compete at this level. How can I possibly convince you of that during a winning effort on the actual show when I am not actually allowed on the show?"

    Alex: "I have absolutely no idea how to deal with you. You need to spend more time in our studio audience to learn the game. Then, after you prove yourself in our rehearsals, you will receive the chance to be on the show again once you have proven yourself in a winning effort while on the show!"

    O'B: "But, but, but..."

    Alex: "Respect me. I have the full support of both our producers and syndicators in rendering this decision. Face reality, you are not relevant until you comply to my conditions for qualifying to appear on the show at any point in the future."

    Dejectedly, O'B leaves, but stays ready in case the producers, as a result of public pressure after watching how Alex treated him, decide to allow him back on the show.

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Maybe they're being developed in practice more than in games. This isn't a bad thing, but more time in games can give them a feel of what it takes to improve.

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    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    Maybe they're being developed in practice more than in games. This isn't a bad thing, but more time in games can give them a feel of what it takes to improve.
    It's a bad thing when even 2 practices in a week is a rarity.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    I really think that it is O'Brien with PCS, not Hansbrough lol.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Could it be that he thinks he is truly developing the young guys. For most of us, developing the young guys means a lot of playing time, Jim might veru well honestly believe yes some playing time is part of the process, but other things, like film work, practice....is just as important

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Calling a young player's effort irrelevant after a good game doesn't seem like development to me.

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    It's a bad thing when even 2 practices in a week is a rarity.
    ...and there in lies the rub about practice determines who plays, or using practice to develop the young guys!
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Question for Pacers fans:

    Imagine a scenario where your young players - Rush, Hibbert, S. Jones, McRoberts, Price - were traded for a team a) that has a playing style that fits their characteristics (it has to be different teams), assuming you don't fit that's the case with the Pacers now b) that was severely hit by the injury bug and they get lots of opportunities to play.

    In which tier do you think they'd fall:

    Tier One - Roko Ukic - incapable of being a useful rotation player + not capable of being insurance for an injured rotation player + have some potential to improve and one day become a serviceable fringe rotation player.

    Tier Two - Kyle Weaver - a young player who is capable of showing himself to be a borderline rotation player + good insurance for the main rotation.

    Tier Three - JJ Hickson - a good young player who is capable of being a role player, an important one, for his team if given an opportunity.

    Tier Four - Darren Collison - a very good young prospect who hasn't been given the opportunity to play yet. If given the opportunity this young player could become a key cog in his team.

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Roy - Tier 4
    AJ - Tier 3.5
    Rush - Tier 3
    Josh - Tier 3
    Tyler - Tier 3 (Tyler could be a 1 if he never comes back, or a 2 if he keeps playing the same way throughout his career, considering his potential is low.)

    EDIT: I also think that if you put Josh or Tyler, esp. Josh, in JJ Hicksons position with Lebron expected to make his layups and do whatever, Josh and Tyler would look alot better than he would. Just throwing that out there. When you are all perimeter play and sad point guard play, its extremely hard to see what our big guys can do.
    Last edited by Thesterovic; 03-08-2010 at 08:10 PM.
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Quote Originally Posted by cordobes View Post
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    Question for Pacers fans:

    Imagine a scenario where your young players - Rush, Hibbert, S. Jones, McRoberts, Price - were traded for a team a) that has a playing style that fits their characteristics (it has to be different teams), assuming you don't fit that's the case with the Pacers now b) that was severely hit by the injury bug and they get lots of opportunities to play.

    In which tier do you think they'd fall:

    Tier One - Roko Ukic - incapable of being a useful rotation player + not capable of being insurance for an injured rotation player + have some potential to improve and one day become a serviceable fringe rotation player.

    Tier Two - Kyle Weaver - a young player who is capable of showing himself to be a borderline rotation player + good insurance for the main rotation.

    Tier Three - JJ Hickson - a good young player who is capable of being a role player, an important one, for his team if given an opportunity.

    Tier Four - Darren Collison - a very good young prospect who hasn't been given the opportunity to play yet. If given the opportunity this young player could become a key cog in his team.
    Good Question. I'm going to reply with little explanation. I fully realize that I'm probably being unrealistic by not placing anyone in Tier One.

    Tier Two - S. Jones, J. McRoberts

    Tier Three - Brandon Rush, AJ Price, Roy Hibbert
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Great question Cordobes.

    I think Solomon Jones is tier 1.

    Tyler Hansbrough is tier 2.

    Roy Hibbert, A.J. Price, and Josh McRoberts are tier 3.

    Brandon Rush is somewhere between tiers 3 and 4.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    I'll answer this in the context of a contender, so our guys may not score that well with me. With that said, I consider Tier 4 to be all-star level talent (e.g. Granger), Tier 3 to be an average NBA starter (e.g. Healthy Foster), Tier 2 to be a solid backup (e.g. Earl Watson) and Tier 1 to be barely in the league (e.g. Diener).

    First, not one of these guys are a Tier 1...which is a good thing IMO.

    Josh - Tier 2
    AJ - Tier 2.5
    Tyler - Tier 3
    Rush - Tier 3
    Roy - Tier 3.5

    There are big-time unknowns for Tyler and AJ. Otherwise, I'm fairly confident of the projection. Roy, with the right pieces around him, could be a very good cog in the middle. I don't think many people realize that the Pacers style of play and the pieces he gets to play with are a WORST CASE SITUATION.

    Edit: My numbers assume these guys immediately become veterans and max out. Might want to subtract 1/2 from each score if this were to happen next year...well before most of these guys are vets.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 03-08-2010 at 08:31 PM.

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I don't intend to be disagreeable. But that very thing Jim has been saying for a good portion of the season. (I know most of you don't believe his actions back up his words in this area, but he has been saying this a lot since at least January 1)
    But Buck, this is exactly what most of us HAVE been saying this whole time. I heard this same quote from him about a month ago, with a timing that really implied that the writing was on the wall for the playoffs and it was time to start working on next year's team.

    Don't "believe" his actions back up his words? No. I KNOW his actions don't back up his words. If the kids get 35 total minutes among Roy, Rush, Price and Josh, maybe 5-10 more for DJones, then his actions are 100% not backing up his words.


    OKC developed their youth. Do you know that that means in MPG? It means 35+. THIRTY FIVE. Watson was benched so Westbrook could play tons of minutes. Why? Because RW was the future and Watson was not.


    JOB keeps talking like somehow playing Rush and Price and Josh makes winning tougher, but most of us believe this isn't the case anyway. In fact the growing buzz is almost to the point that not playing the kids is actually part of the tank because they might win a couple of games with the kids.

    I don't think it would make a difference myself, but the point is that a lot of PD posters do see how that idea is within reason because they've seen all these guys play.



    I'll tell you what Buck, I'll give you a taste of what this JOB thing is from our side. My version of a JOB, but altered for me - "I'm trying to talk Pacers basketball and at the same time not rant about JOB, that's what I'm doing, not discussing the coaching. Also I believe firmly in the stat that says that less words per post is the right way to go, which is why I keep all my posts really short."

    Just think of that quote every time you read any post by me the rest of the year. Maybe for kicks you can defend it as sincere and true too. "Seth really means it, he's not really ranting about the coach, he's trying to talk basketball but all these other posters drag him into it. It's not his fault. Plus his posts aren't really that long when you look at them."

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Roy - 4
    Rush - 4
    Price - 3ish, need to see more
    Josh - 3
    Tyler - 2

    And if Tyler was healthy and I was the coach, I WOULD play him. Yep, all my ranting aside of what I think he can be, I'd try to defy my own expectations of him because that helps me and frankly its just the right way to coach, period.

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Could it be that he thinks he is truly developing the young guys. For most of us, developing the young guys means a lot of playing time, Jim might veru well honestly believe yes some playing time is part of the process, but other things, like film work, practice....is just as important
    During the season, no film work at all practically and practices maybe once every 2-3 weeks.

    Yep, that does help.

    Josh is learning how to check into hotels, catch the bus and lift weights. He's not developing his NBA game.


    And you aren't helping his case because I think a lot of us also think this is exactly how JOB does think, which is why he's a terrible coach for a developing team. No other coaches worth their salt think this way. Even Larry Brown will play kids. It's hit and miss if he likes a player this week, but at times if he's liking them then he will play them. And Brown is a terrible example because he is so notoriously fickle that it's considered a flaw in his coaching.

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Quote Originally Posted by cordobes View Post
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    Question for Pacers fans:

    Imagine a scenario where your young players - Rush, Hibbert, S. Jones, McRoberts, Price - were traded for a team a) that has a playing style that fits their characteristics (it has to be different teams), assuming you don't fit that's the case with the Pacers now b) that was severely hit by the injury bug and they get lots of opportunities to play.

    In which tier do you think they'd fall:

    Tier One - Roko Ukic - incapable of being a useful rotation player + not capable of being insurance for an injured rotation player + have some potential to improve and one day become a serviceable fringe rotation player.

    Tier Two - Kyle Weaver - a young player who is capable of showing himself to be a borderline rotation player + good insurance for the main rotation.

    Tier Three - JJ Hickson - a good young player who is capable of being a role player, an important one, for his team if given an opportunity.

    Tier Four - Darren Collison - a very good young prospect who hasn't been given the opportunity to play yet. If given the opportunity this young player could become a key cog in his team.
    Hmm..
    Honestly, I think We've seen too little of Price, Josh, and Tyler to say either way, but I'll make my guess.

    Josh - 2.5
    Tyler -3
    AJ- 3.5
    Rush -4
    Hibbert - 4

    I'm going a little high, but I think this is about potential and minutes.

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Assuming all are healthy:

    Josh - 2.5
    Tyler - 2.75
    Price - 3
    Rush - 3.25 (only because his personality holds his talent down from a 4)
    Hibbert - 3.5

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    I am in UB's corner on this one, but for perhaps a different reasons. I can not help but think that JOB is trying to make the best of a bad situation.

    He may not be a great coach, however I am not sure that even a great coach would be in a significantly different situation.

    There are a lot of reasons the team is where it is. I suspect JOB has a relatively small amount of control relatively speaking.

    my2c

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Quote Originally Posted by efhead View Post
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    I am in UB's corner on this one, but for perhaps a different reasons. I can not help but think that JOB is trying to make the best of a bad situation.

    He may not be a great coach, however I am not sure that even a great coach would be in a significantly different situation.

    There are a lot of reasons the team is where it is. I suspect JOB has a relatively small amount of control relatively speaking.

    my2c
    Making the best out of a bad situation would be to give the younger guys the majority of the minutes.

    That is the only positive that can come for this season. And he's not doing it.

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Wouldn't starting all the young players tell your opponent that you have officially given up?

    I would support that by the way - would be like watching the Warriors - not sure the climate of Indiana would accept such an approach.
    Last edited by mcampbellarch; 03-09-2010 at 12:53 AM. Reason: incomplete thought

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    Default Re: WTF? - Wells Blog

    Quote Originally Posted by efhead View Post
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    Wouldn't starting all the young players tell your opponent that you have officially given up?

    I would support that by the way - would be like watching the Warriors - not sure the climate of Indiana would accept such an approach.
    1. No, because for the most part, are younger guys are our best guys.
    That lineup would be
    Price
    Rush
    Danny
    McBob
    Hibbert

    Rush, McBob, and Hibbert are our best at those position. I and I think many here believe Price is as well..McBob isn't better than Troy, although he does some things that fans appreciate, that Troy can't do.

    2. The fans want to see the younger guys play.

    3. Um, we're out of the playoffs. Everyone knows we are out of the playoffs, trust me when I say the opposing team doesn't really care who we start.

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