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Youth development tracking and discussion

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  • #16
    Re: Youth development tracking and discussion

    Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    Bonus post - Jrue Holiday was always going to be a project this year. I loved him as a prospect but I thought he and Teague 100% should have stayed for another year of college.

    But boy, Jrue is already having those moments. He was the main alternate choice at the Pacers draft slot and it comes as no surprise to anyone that it ticks me off that they passed. He's raw now, but already he's finding his game on both ends (he's a sharp defensive prospect).



    OTOH Speights was a guy a lot of us thought was a better choice than Roy and he's really starting to fade. This seems to happen to lots of guys, they splash early on then fall back into the player they'll really be. Just look at Charlie V vs Granger for example.

    Maybe Speights isn't going to be the guy we thought, which would make Bird's draft look even more impressive 2 years ago.
    I guess that it is a good thing that Jrue ended up going to a developing and rebuilding team where he could get playing time and learn the NBA game. Good for him.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Youth development tracking and discussion

      I don't get to watch the games so I don't really have anything to say about this, but I'm going to bump it so maybe someone else will comment. Reading about the kids is my favorite thing about the team anymore.

      I will say that I am very optimistic for Brandon's future given how his 3 point shot has developed this year. You can make a long, effective career for yourself by playing lockdown defense and hitting the 3 ball. Hopefully he can work on his handles for next year -- his efficient shooting should open up some nice driving lanes for him.

      hard to believe Brandon and Roy are only 2nd year players. They could be very good players by the time they hit their peaks.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Youth development tracking and discussion

        Three games after the Cav game, and I don't believe Price, Hibbert and Rush have all shared the court together. Unfreakingbelievable.

        Price..yea, he hasn't played that wonderfully lately, although this was a pretty good game. And I also think it's hard for anyone to play 4 well in the four minutes of competitive playing time they get, plus the the garbage time in the fourth quarter. (note to Jimmy, I can guarantee you that Earl does not want to play 40 minutes a night.) There's a paranoid part of me that thinks JOB is restricting Price's playing time, so he can point to his less than stellar statistics to explain why Ford will get Price's time. I know that's paranoid, and maybe..that isn't JOB's plan, but I can almost guarantee that's what he's going to do. Forget pointing out that I'm sure AJ could come up with more than 7 points and 1 assist in 30+ minutes...digressing again.

        Anyway, I've noticed that AJ seems to be..a lot less aggressive when the Pacer's have the lead. And honestly, I should have guessed that's what would happen, because he was that way at Uconn. He's much more content with running the offense, and passing, then being as take charge as he is when the Pacers are down. I think he definitely needs to work on that. He plays better, and I think the team plays better, when he's more aggressive..and he has his good combo of looking for his own shot and creating shots.

        Hibbert..I think he's clearly made progress throughout the year. He got called for some..bull..foul calls this game. But he seems to even have gotten better with that. His post moves are better, his free throw percentage is improved. He's just all around improved. What I like most about him though, is that he plays well against the best competition. That's a really good sign of potential.

        I think his defense and foul trouble (still) are where he needs to work. I'd like to see him be stronger with going to the basket, but I get the feeling he's more like Pau Gasol than Dwight Howard, and Roy is just, always going to be soft around the basket. It's too bad we couldn't make him a little more athletic though.

        Rush, has been awesome lately. I hope he can continue this into next season. Although, apparently he did this last season as well. I really think Rush has a lot of talent, perhaps more so than Danny even. He may never be "the guy" but what he brings to a team and the potential he has is incredible. Defensive stopper, really good shooter, good passer, team player..the list can go on.

        His problem, I think is obvious. He needs to learn how to finish at the rim better. I'd also like him to add more of a midrange game. I have seen him drive in and take a midrange jumper like Price and Ford do, I think that would expand his game a lot, and probably make him more of a scorer, and probably make it easier to finish because the defense would have to really think about what he is going to do.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Youth development tracking and discussion

          yay, I was just thinking about this thread. I was on vacation last week and it got neglected a bit, but I remembered it tonight and was going to dig it up.


          Rush - I'm so sick of the "sure he brings it in March" or "I wish he'd play like this in December". Um, he did. Enough already, learn the game. The dude shot the 3 poorly in November. End of story. (not directed at you Sookie, this is from hearing local sports talk the last few days)

          Since when did 40% from deep stop being enough for people? I think people fail to realize how rare it was for Reggie to go on 40+% tears from 3 for months at a time.

          Rush had a bad defensive play where he didn't switch to Prince on a PnR that got Dun picked off, but when Dun scored on the next trip no one helped out on Prince on transition (ahem, Danny sleeping on D again) and Rush made up for his prior play by picking him up from across the court (on his own man) and chasing down Prince for the block without a foul. Amazing. Not good, but amazing. Awareness and closing speed, he passed two other Pacers closer to Prince that were doing nothing about it.


          Roy - I'm wondering if he's a bit self-conscious of his own quickness because I think his main offensive issue is rushing shots/plays. When he settles a bit and smooths out the play he has a lot more success, both in scoring and drawing fouls.

          Roy has hit a little plateau to me. I know he's had good production lately, but I don't think he's really any better than he was vs the Magic months ago. he needs an "aha" moment where he adds some aspect or adjusts his approach.


          Price - he's settling so often for his own shot and not really showing any playmaking, which we know he can do. I just don't know what to think about it, except maybe the system and the lack of consistent playing time (same guys, situation, expected role).

          On defense he has one really bad habit which is to always bite the crossover, and bite it hard. He gives guys 2-3 feet of lateral space pretty consistently. That's unacceptable for a PG defender.


          Solo - He's surprising me with a bit of development that I wouldn't expect with his low playing time. He's really showing an elbow game, both the jumper and moving the ball off the elbow when they run at his jumper. I think he's improved his offensive awareness quite a bit.



          Back to Rush and finishing at the rim. I agree. I also think he does too which is why he avoids it (thus the "passive"). He has hops but he's no Gerald Henderson when it comes to finishing in traffic.

          People think I overhype things like Robinson's dunking at UConn, but the fact is that the game above the rim in traffic is a key weapon in the NBA. You might only get that dunk 2-3 times a game, but the threat of it adds another 3-4 scores off the attack and draws fouls.

          What keeps Rush from being a big time scorer is that he lacks this game. IMO he probably won't ever have it since he's never shown any sign of it prior to this point. That's just not who he is.

          The midrange jumper is something he can add and I think he will. I think he had it at Kansas and just hasn't quite found the finish to his dribble drive to midrange game (both passing options and scoring). I think this is what he'll dial in next and that will lift him up another level.

          I am sick of these 18-20ppg expectations from a standard #13 pick. A SG with good defense that scores 18-20 is borderline all-star, not good starter just barely above 6-7th man. Totally unrealistic expectations. I don't think people realize how rare 20 PPG is or how few teams have 3-4 guys like this.



          Luckily we didn't waste any game time working with McRoberts. Hate to waste that Troy development time on Josh.
          Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 03-23-2010, 10:19 PM.

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          • #20
            Re: Youth development tracking and discussion

            Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post

            Price - he's settling so often for his own shot and not really showing any playmaking, which we know he can do. I just don't know what to think about it, except maybe the system and the lack of consistent playing time (same guys, situation, expected role).

            On defense he has one really bad habit which is to always bite the crossover, and bite it hard. He gives guys 2-3 feet of lateral space pretty consistently. That's unacceptable for a PG defender.

            It's even more suprising that he does that considering that's a move he does frequently. But it's one of those things that..if he got enough playing time, I'd bet he'd correct it. It's a classic "the game is too fast" rookie mistake.

            He also has a problem with screens, which is why Nash completely eats him up. I'm not sure if it's completely his fault ( if Roy/Troy are supposed to help him.) or if it's just him. But he's the one that consistently looks bad on them.

            I don't mind him backing off his guy to help in the middle. In fact, with Roy and Troy in there, I don't really blame him, particularly since he's not beat on that often. But I have a feeling as teams scout him and realize he does it, it'll probably be used against him.

            The scoring thing..I think there are a variety of reason. I think the primary one is...the less he scores, the less he plays. JOB wants his point guards to play like AI.

            But I also think it's a combination of who he's out there with as well as what he's being told to do. I think if you put him on the floor with Rush and Hibbert for a long period, you'd see him have a good combination of playmaking and scoring.

            And lastly, let's face it. He's a rookie, and scoring is easier than playmaking. Not to mention, about a third of his time this season has been spent as an SG.

            But overall I'm just frustrated, because yes..he hasn't been playing as well as he did earlier this season..but a huge reason for that is the playing time he's being given. It's borderline ridiculous. 4 minutes in the entire first half. No one could play well given that short amount of time. So of course he tries to get a few shots up to get into the game.

            I also think part of the "problem" is that he is creating more than he gets credit for. There have been a few times lately that I've noticed that he directs the traffic, makes the pass of the pass, and of course doesn't get the assist for it. Or he does pass, and the shot misses. Part of this is WHO he likes to pass it to. He sort of has comfort people at this point. Rush, Hibbert, and Dun. ...and He's on the court with Dun more than Rush and Hibbert..so when you try to set up Dun, you aren't going to come away with assists. He set up Dun (just Dun) 3 or 4 times tonight. All misses. Doesn't mean he's not creating, he is. Statistically, he'd just be better off creating for Danny. This is why though, it wasn't a shock he got six assists when he got to play with Rush and Roy. (LET THEM PLAY TOGETHER AGAIN JOB...THREE FREAKING GAMES LATER..STILL NO TIME TOGETHER.)
            Last edited by Sookie; 03-23-2010, 11:10 PM.

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            • #21
              Re: Youth development tracking and discussion

              Troy Murphy is being promoted for Most Improved Player, isn't he? That MUST be what we are up to. Otherwise, none of it makes any sense...

              Actually, probably not. A lot of his good play throughout this year has been irrelevant due to not coming in a winning effort. It would be hypocritical for O'B to reward him this way. He must just be AWESOME in practice as he apparently always has been. Otherwise, he would not have earned his playing time, which obviously comes as a result of the defensive effort he brings to the floor in practices...

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Youth development tracking and discussion

                Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                Roy - I'm wondering if he's a bit self-conscious of his own quickness because I think his main offensive issue is rushing shots/plays. When he settles a bit and smooths out the play he has a lot more success, both in scoring and drawing fouls.

                Roy has hit a little plateau to me. I know he's had good production lately, but I don't think he's really any better than he was vs the Magic months ago. he needs an "aha" moment where he adds some aspect or adjusts his approach.
                I think much of Roy's improvement has been due to not taking a long time to figure out what to do. Much of the frustration I had with him earlier in the season was from getting the ball and holding it long enough for the defense to adjust. The downside of that is that he is rushing sometimes, but I think it is a little easier to slow down than speed up.
                BillS

                A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Youth development tracking and discussion

                  When you are a low post big you don't need to be in too much hurry as you are supposed to be able to get your shot anyway due to size. Jabbar didn't have to go screaming into a toss up as soon as he touched the ball.

                  For example last night we saw Roy throw one horrible shot up under the rim, where if he just waited and settled he could have gone into a solid, smooth scoring move OVER his defender.

                  Roy is throwing up a lot of shots like he's 6 foot tall in there, not over 7 feet. It's like a panicked, rushed shot.

                  Plus the patience of waiting is that you are letting defenses show you that double which is exactly what you want a low post threat to see. Then you cut off that and make them pay. Doesn't even have to be the direct shot. We saw last night a kick out from the double and then a hard ball reversal of 2 more passes to a wide open corner 3 from the other side, all because Roy waited for them to show their double.


                  Yes, if he waits THROUGH cuts, through motion, well past the double showing, then he needs to pick it up. But this is not what he's avoiding. He's catching a pass and quickly trying to get a shot up on the glass as though he fully expects to have his shot stuffed or something. It's not a smooth shot.

                  So I disagree that a low post big should go super fast and then dial it back. I think the post big should work on deliberate moves and footwork, at least if you are tall enough to have a true back to the rim game.

                  This isn't the same as a 6'6" wing that catches a rotation PG post up chance and wants to get his shot going before the defense recovers. Or a guy like Amare (or Kemp) who's scoring moves are the quick, explosive type rather than traditional slow moves.

                  Dale and Rik both had rather slow developing moves that were simply reliable.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Youth development tracking and discussion

                    Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                    When you are a low post big you don't need to be in too much hurry as you are supposed to be able to get your shot anyway due to size. Jabbar didn't have to go screaming into a toss up as soon as he touched the ball.

                    For example last night we saw Roy throw one horrible shot up under the rim, where if he just waited and settled he could have gone into a solid, smooth scoring move OVER his defender.

                    Roy is throwing up a lot of shots like he's 6 foot tall in there, not over 7 feet. It's like a panicked, rushed shot.

                    Plus the patience of waiting is that you are letting defenses show you that double which is exactly what you want a low post threat to see. Then you cut off that and make them pay. Doesn't even have to be the direct shot. We saw last night a kick out from the double and then a hard ball reversal of 2 more passes to a wide open corner 3 from the other side, all because Roy waited for them to show their double.


                    Yes, if he waits THROUGH cuts, through motion, well past the double showing, then he needs to pick it up. But this is not what he's avoiding. He's catching a pass and quickly trying to get a shot up on the glass as though he fully expects to have his shot stuffed or something. It's not a smooth shot.

                    So I disagree that a low post big should go super fast and then dial it back. I think the post big should work on deliberate moves and footwork, at least if you are tall enough to have a true back to the rim game.



                    Dale and Rik both had rather slow developing moves that were simply reliable.
                    With this line of thinking wouldn't you think a Monroe/Hibbert post be pretty nasty.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Youth development tracking and discussion

                      McRoberts looking quite irrelevant tonight!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Youth development tracking and discussion

                        Originally posted by Hicks View Post
                        McRoberts looking quite irrelevant tonight!
                        EXACTLY!
                        12 pts/ 8 reb's (4O, 4D)/ 2 asst/ 1 blk/ & +9 all in a half is all IRRELEVANT when you are 0-4 on 3pt'ers! Derrrr........
                        "Larry Bird: You are Officially On the Clock! (3/24/08)"
                        (Watching You Like A Hawk!)

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Youth development tracking and discussion

                          Originally posted by esabyrn333 View Post
                          With this line of thinking wouldn't you think a Monroe/Hibbert post be pretty nasty.
                          Nasty in a good way on offense.

                          Nasty in a bad way on defense.
                          This space for rent.

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