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Thread: Memo to Bird

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    Default Memo to Bird

    http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/31101


    Nick Spadafore (Syracuse NY)

    Who will be this years draft surprise?? I want to say Andy Rautins from SU would be that player with his work ethic and passion to stick around and contribute. Maybe late first round!? 3's and steals are always a great way to make a name for your self....your thoughts?

    J.A. Adande (3:19 PM)

    Athleticism rules in the NBA. Work ethic and passion works great in college, but not on the next level, so I'd temper my expectations for Rautins...who is a great college player.
    I truly hope Bird understands this going into the draft. Role players are great if surrounded by a star or two, not when it makes up the whole team

    Anyone else hoping that this year Bird goes against his philisophy of "singles" and goes for the "home run"

    I think we need to stop going after aplayer just because they spent 3 or more years in college. The majority of the time that a player stays in college more than 2 years is because they are simply not good enough
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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/31101




    I truly hope Bird understands this going into the draft. Role players are great if surrounded by a star or two, not when it makes up the whole team

    Anyone else hoping that this year Bird goes against his philisophy of "singles" and goes for the "home run"

    I think we need to stop going after aplayer just because they spent 3 or more years in college. The majority of the time that a player stays in college more than 2 years is because they are simply not good enough
    What about Shawne Williams? How'd that homerun swing turn out for us?

    And then you make such an outrageous statement at the end... seriously?

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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    What about Shawne Williams? How'd that homerun swing turn out for us?
    On the court, about equal to Tyler Hansbrough.
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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Eric P (Naptown)


    Hey J, have you read the new bestseller "How to destroy an NBA franchise in three years or less" by Larry bird and Jim Obrien? This is the owrst season in 25 years. WHat the heck is going on?

    J.A. Adande (3:31 PM)


    That's what happens when you put image and marketing over actual ability. So they got rid of everyone associated with the Brawl in the Palace, they drafted Tyler Hansbrough over the likes of Ty Lawson, Darren Collison and DeJuan Blair, and they're stuck in mediocreville
    Apparently a very well respected NBA writer feels the same way
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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Apparently a very well respected NBA writer feels the same way
    Calling J.A. Adande a very well respected NBA writer is a stretch. But I fully agree with what he said. Except for the mediocreville part. We're well below mediocre.
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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    What about Shawne Williams? How'd that homerun swing turn out for us?

    And then you make such an outrageous statement at the end... seriously?
    Please tell me what is the "outrageous statement" you are referring to?

    Thanks
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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Calling J.A. Adande a very well respected NBA writer is a stretch. But I fully agree with what he said. Except for the mediocreville part. We're well below mediocre.
    Well I understand he may not be the elite but

    He is on ESPN around the horn, PTI, etc

    I dont understand why some people get so riled up if you think that Bird has drafted poorly.

    Its just my opininon, but I think the record speaks for itself

    I also think we will regret not drafting Ty Lawson
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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    I also think we will regret not drafting Ty Lawson
    We'll regret drafting Tyler Hansbrough more than we'll regret not drafting Ty Lawson.
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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    We'll regret drafting Tyler Hansbrough more than we'll regret not drafting Ty Lawson.
    Well,

    I have felt that way but there are a lot of people who take it personal if you criticize Tyler.

    I dont think he is a bad player, I just feel we could have made a better decision and possibly traded down to get Tyl;er and someone else (I know he alegedly tried to do so with the bulls
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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Eric P (Naptown)
    Hey J, have you read the new bestseller "How to destroy an NBA franchise in three years or less" by Larry bird and Jim Obrien? This is the owrst season in 25 years. WHat the heck is going on?

    J.A. Adande (3:31 PM)

    That's what happens when you put image and marketing over actual ability. So they got rid of everyone associated with the Brawl in the Palace, they drafted Tyler Hansbrough over the likes of Ty Lawson, Darren Collison and DeJuan Blair, and they're stuck in mediocreville
    Sorry, but I do not get the impression that J.A Andande really follows the Pacers on a regular basis and is simply giving a "Hansbrough has done very little compared to the others and therefore wasn't a good pick" quickie-response.

    Is he trying to imply another reason as to why Hansbrough was drafted over Lawson, Collison or Blair ( I'm not going to say it....but you know what I'm talking about )?

    I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he's not going with the whole "Bird drafted Hansbrough due to some superficial reason" but based off of other reasons.

    I do not doubt that all of the Players suggested would have had some ( if not greater ) impact on the Team.....but given Hansbrough's shortened rookie season....it's debateable to assume that Hansbrough wouldn't have had any impact on the Team....nor imply that Hansbrough does not have any "actual ability" when we haven't really seen him play over the course of an entire season.

    Keep in mind, I'm not saying that Hansbrough is any better then the other players listed nor do I want to go into any real debate whether any of those Players are a better fit for this Team or not ( cough cough, I'm talking to you Seth ).....I'm just saying that it's short-sighted to write Hansbrough off when he hasn't really played that much and we really don't know what impact he would have had on the Team.

    Are the Pacers a mediocre Team? No doubt.

    But are the Pacers a mediocre Team because we drafted Hansbrough? Not at all. We suck because our overall suckitude is really sucky.
    Last edited by CableKC; 03-05-2010 at 06:55 PM.
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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Not certain I am even qualified to make this point but....Let's face it: Bird, as a player, knew little to nothing about mediocre or "role" players, as he only knew how to improve those players. I am certain that he believes the same of the players he's now evaluating, and it's obviously not working. He's got to go for the "home run", as that type of player will only make those he's surrounded by better.
    To continue to pick those role players is only repeating the same pattern over and over. Plain insanity, and it's proving to be an exercise in futility.
    The problem lies with whomever thought that a great player would make a great evaluator. As noted, it is image over substance.

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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    I do think Tyler is a bad player... Sub 50% shooting post players don't have a good place in this league.

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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Hansbrough was fine prior to his injury -- productive and already drawing fouls at an elite level, while showing an animalistic defensive intensity. It's too bad his injury has lead to him being labeled a bad draft pick by the less knowledgeable (Adande) and those with personal agendas.

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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    I do think Tyler is a bad player... Sub 50% shooting post players don't have a good place in this league.
    You made Chris Kaman and Zach Randolph cry.

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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    I don't have a personal agenda, other than wanting the Pacers to be good again.

    Outside of Tbird (and really, we all bow at that shrine) I know basketball as well as or better than anyone else who posts here... I played varsity, I watch hundreds of games a year, basketball is my sport. Tyler was a bad pick at the time, he is a bad pick now, and it only gets worse as if this injury holds up he'll never even manage to be fringe rotational big man like he was supposed to be.

    You can't pick a player who's ceiling is 8th man in this league with a lottery pick, even a late lottery pick, and expect to have a good future.

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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Sorry, but I do not get the impression that J.A Andande really follows the Pacers on a regular basis and is simply giving a "Hansbrough has done very little compared to the others and therefore wasn't a good pick" quickie-response.

    Is he trying to imply another reason as to why Hansbrough was drafted over Lawson, Collison or Blair ( I'm not going to say it....but you know what I'm talking about )?
    Well keep in mind how fast they have to answer questions in a chat enviornment

    I dont think he was speculating the "alternative reason" Tyler might have been picked, but mearly suggesting that we have been so concerend with image, that we have favored that over talent.
    I also agree with the fact that passion and intensity are great in college, but Athleticism rules in the NBA
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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by brewpopps View Post
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    Not certain I am even qualified to make this point but....Let's face it: Bird, as a player, knew little to nothing about mediocre or "role" players, as he only knew how to improve those players. I am certain that he believes the same of the players he's now evaluating, and it's obviously not working. He's got to go for the "home run", as that type of player will only make those he's surrounded by better.
    To continue to pick those role players is only repeating the same pattern over and over. Plain insanity, and it's proving to be an exercise in futility.
    The problem lies with whomever thought that a great player would make a great evaluator. As noted, it is image over substance.
    Doing the same thing over and over, but expecting a different reult

    The true definition of insanity
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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Kaman is shooting 49.6%... I'm going to go ahead and call him a 50% shooter.

    Randolph is a poor example because he isn't only a post game. He's got range much like a KG. Similarly you can look back at someone like JO... these are big men who do more than post up. Even then Randolph is at 49.9%. I'm not sure I could roll my eyes any harder at your failed examples.

    Tyler, not so much.

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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    Kaman is shooting 49.6%... I'm going to go ahead and call him a 50% shooter.

    Randolph is a poor example because he isn't only a post game. He's got range much like a KG. Similarly you can look back at someone like JO... these are big men who do more than post up. Even then Randolph is at 49.9%. I'm not sure I could roll my eyes any harder at your failed examples.

    Tyler, not so much.
    Roy doesn't shoot 50%, cut him. Jason Thompson shoots about 46%, none of us would want him on our team! Dude, if you wanted to make a point.....it's a lot easier to say that Tyler's FG% is an absolutely horrible 36%. I'd put 46% at the minimum for a post player. Still, you are looking at a partial season of play in the guy's first year.

    But what do I know? I'm not the basketball jesus to Tbird's godliness like you are.

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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    Hansbrough was fine prior to his injury -- productive and already drawing fouls at an elite level, while showing an animalistic defensive intensity. It's too bad his injury has lead to him being labeled a bad draft pick by the less knowledgeable (Adande) and those with personal agendas.
    I am sorry but I disagree with that

    Tyler had a woefull shooting percentage, had his shot blocked constantly, and has looked more like a rugby player than a basketballl player

    I espect the right to differ in opinion though I dont see him becomming much more than a rotational player


    hope I am wrong though
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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozwalt72 View Post
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    You made Chris Kaman and Zach Randolph cry.
    If you look at the number of PF and C's who shoot sub-.500, many of them very good players, you'll fully appreciate what a silly statement it was. He would've been much better off saying sub-.400, which I would've agreed with. Of course I also believe the sub-.400 was a side effect of getting adjusted to the NBA and that he'd probably be regularly shooting in the mid-40's by now if it weren't for the injuries.

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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Nothing like cherry picking names from the draft nearly a year later.

    At #14, the Bulls picked James Johnson over Collison. Why don't people jump all over them? In fact, several players picked before the aforementioned players appear to have less potential. Where's Thabeet right now? The only reason the Pacers get ripped is because Tyler had a tremendous college career and may not even become an NBA starter. Well, you could say that about a lot of the players in the first round.

    Hans was considered a safe pick and there never was high expectations for him. If there were, he would have been picked much higher. The fact is, a player with his style can add an important piece to a team where many of these guys will do nothing with their careers. He is a unique player who was not a bad pick at #13. A better pick would have been Collison and maybe Lawson. Otherwise, the jury is still out. I suspect there will be a number of players better and worse than Tyler picked above and below him.

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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    I am sorry but I disagree with that

    Tyler had a woefull shooting percentage, had his shot blocked constantly, and has looked more like a rugby player than a basketballl player

    I espect the right to differ in opinion though I dont see him becomming much more than a rotational player


    hope I am wrong though
    Woeful (only one L) shooting percentages are fairly common for rookies as they find their niche in the NBA. If Tyler's still shooting terribly by the middle of next season then it'll be worrisome. As for the rugby comment, I see nothing wrong with a physical, balls-to-the-wall style of play, and in fact I rather enjoy it.

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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    I am sorry but I disagree with that

    Tyler had a woefull shooting percentage, had his shot blocked constantly, and has looked more like a rugby player than a basketballl player
    Can't argue with that statement. He had his shot blocked 32 times--4x his blocked shot total for the year.

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    Default Re: Memo to Bird

    I really don't see how anyone can judge Hans without hardly seeing him play. He looked ok from what I saw. Injuries happen....is blake a bad pick? he didn't play at all this year. Thabeet isn't half what Hibbert is so far.

    No one expected Hans to be be a superstar. Most thought he would bring a hustle and toughness that this team lacked. Kind of like an improved Foster. He still may pan out to be a good mid first round pick. You can't call him a bust yet.

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